Malaysia splits with Asean on China Sea threat

[Karasonmuno]

Many ethnic Han Chinese people are in Malaysia, I think, making up at least 25% of its population. Neutrality is indeed a prudent road for the government to go down.

 

[Wholegrain]

Many ethnic Han Chinese people are in Malaysia, I think, making up at least 25% of its population. Neutrality is indeed a prudent road for the government to go down.

That has nothing to do with their friendly relations towards China. Former PM Tun Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad is one of the most right wing, Malay nationalist leaders, and he is for friendly relations with China and doesn't view China as a threat. The feelings of the ethnic Chinese population in Malaysia have nothing to do with this.

 

[Wholegrain]

Chicken!

Chicken for not giving a $h!t when the Philippines decided to claim other people's islands out of thin air? Chicken for not obeying America or Japan's orders to advanced their own interests as the expense of Malaysia's?

That's why you don't know about Indonesian History at all and i will not teaching you here

Sukarno (president of Indonesia) : Indonesian independence -- Encyclopedia Britannica

For his challenge to colonialism Sukarno spent two years in a Dutch jail (1929–31) in Bandung and more than eight years in exile (1933–42) on Flores and Sumatra. When the Japanese invaded the Indies in March 1942, he welcomed them as personal and national liberators. During World War II the Japanese made Sukarno their chief adviser and propagandist and their recruiter for labourers, soldiers, and prostitutes. Sukarno pressured the Japanese to grant Indonesia its independence and, on June 1, 1945, made the most famous of many celebrated speeches. In it he defined the Pantjasila (Pancasila), or Five Principles (nationalism, internationalism, democracy, social prosperity, and belief in God), still the sacrosanct state doctrine. When the collapse of Japan became imminent, Sukarno at first wavered. Then, after being kidnapped, intimidated, and persuaded by activist youths, he declared Indonesia’s independence (August 17, 1945). As president of the shaky new republic, he fueled a successful defiance of the Dutch, who, after two abortive “police actions” to regain control, formally transferred sovereignty on December 27, 1949.

Sultan Mohammed of Pontianak was punished by the Japanese for refusing to collaborate.

Post-war Borneo, 1945-50: Nationalism, Empire and State-Building - Ooi Keat Gin - Google knygos

Syarif Abdul Hamid Alqadrie was the heir of Sultan Syarif Mohamad Alkadrie who died in a Japanese prison having been implicated in the so-called 'Pontianak Incident' (also referred as the 'Mandor Affair'). For the latter, see Chapter 2.....
A graduate of the Royal Military Academy at Breda, the Netherlands, he was imprisoned during the war in Java where he had served as a colonel (later lieutenant-colonel) in the KNIL.

From Rebellion to Riots

Widespread starvation ensued.19 In 1943, having uncovered an underground resistance movement in South Kalimantan, the Japanese "found" a similar intrigue in Pontianak. From late 1943 to early 1944, Japanese naval officers engaged in a series of roundups and executions, events that are collectively known as the Mandor Affair. The victims included the sultan of Pontianak (Syarif Muhammad Alqadri), some twenty- five members of the high aristocracy, intellectuals, party leaders, and merchants from multiple ethnic groups including ethnic Chinese who constituted the largest number of victims. The Japanese buried their victims in mass graves in Mandor.

A graduate of the Royal Military Academy in the Netherlands (Breda) and a Royal Netherlands Indies Army (Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger, or KNIL) colonel, Hamid had spent the duration of the war jailed in Java, where he had been stationed.

Violence and Politics in West Kalimantan, Indonesia - Jamie Seth Davidson - Google Books

from a series of massive arrests and summary executions. The Japanese believed they had uncovered a conspiracy of resistance. Known as "the Mandor Affair," these events are shrouded in mystery and wrapped in conflicting interpretations. In brief, the Japanese had discovered a plot of Dutch and Indonesian nationalists in South Kalimantan; similar intrigue was then 'found" in operation in Pontianak. It was announced in a Malay language newspaper that the plotters were working to establish a People's Republic of West Borneo (Majors Rakyat Borneo Sara/). 13* From April 1943 to mid-1944, the 137 Of note were the deaths off On : a-P-.

Violence and Politics in West Kalimantan, Indonesia - Jamie Seth Davidson - Google Books

Japanese insti gated a series of roundups and executions. Victims included the Sultan of Pontianak (Syarif Muhammad Aiqadri), dose family members and regional nobles. 139 Intellectuals, party leaders and merchants from multiple ethnic ...

http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_009.pdf

From September 1943 to mid-1944, the Japanese instigated a series of roundups and executions. Victims included the Sultan of Pontianak (Syarif. Muhammad Alqadri), close family members and regional nobles--some twenty-five members of ...

 

[Zero_wing]

Did we why i though you knew our history looks like just other hater like the other nazi's first it was sultan of sulu the area was a reward for their help by sultan of Brunei then the British leases the land from the sultan then past it to the Philippine Government but malaysian don't wanna surrender it due to huge oil in the area nothing more after they got their independence from Britain and refuse UN arbitration unlike you imperials we don't use military force to steal lands and make base on said lands and islands anyway the sultans of sulu got irritated on waiting and view our relationship malaysia as sign of putting the claim to trash bin so they made their own move so that's why the incident happen sabah right now.

Wow i though you were in the side of the Moro terrorist who refuse to follow peace but you just prove to be Anti filipino troll trash maker like the rest of your kind ch3kw@ imperialist troll is just that low form of troll after all. Thanks for that whole b.s you just show your true colors and objectives its all been for simply trash coming from neo nazi imperialist chinese expansionist i guess stealing natural resources and bad mouthing the Philippines when its down is not enough for people like you but again again the whole worlds knows better so you can suck on that.

 

[Wholegrain]

Did we why i though you knew our history looks like just other hater like the other nazi's first it was sultan of sulu the area was a reward for their help by sultan of Brunei then the British leases the land from the sultan then past it to the Philippine Government but malaysian don't wanna surrender it due to huge oil in the area nothing more after they got their independence from Britain and refuse UN arbitration unlike you imperials we don't use military force to steal lands and make base on said lands and islands anyway the sultans of sulu got irritated on waiting and view our relationship malaysia as sign of putting the claim to trash bin so they made their own move so that's why the incident happen sabah right now.

Wow i though you were in the side of the Moro terrorist who refuse to follow peace but you just prove to be Anti filipino troll trash maker like the rest of your kind ch3kw@ imperialist troll is just that low form of troll after all. Thanks for that whole b.s you just show your true colors and objectives its all been for simply trash coming from neo nazi imperialist chinese expansionist i guess stealing natural resources and bad mouthing the Philippines when its down is not enough for people like you but again again the whole worlds knows better so you can suck on that.

I am fully aware of the problems between Moros and Malaysia, I even made posts on this forum criticizing Malaysia for its role with the MILF deal and not reconciliating with the MNLF and Sultan of Sulu Jamalul Kiram III.

Just like in Palestine where Fatah and Hamas are divided, the problem is that there is no unity between the various Moro groups lile the MNLF factions, the MILF, and the BIFF. The Philippines has taken advantage of the disunity by signing separate deals with diffeerent factions and undercutting others. Since these different factions represent different ethnic Moro groups (Misuari's MNLF is mostly Tausug while MILF is Maguindanaon), this will only sharpen the tensions.

In my opinion the problem over Sabah should be solved quickly between Malaysia and Sultan Jamalul Kiram III and his MNLF allies. I believe his brother his his crown prince, and he has nephews who are on his side. One of his nephews gets the throne of Sabah and Malaysia can have a tenth Sultan in addition to the other nine. The other nephew is heir to the throne of Sulu.

The real enemy is the Philippines government. It was a dissapointment to watch Malaysia undercut the MNLF by agreeing to the separate MILF peace deal with the Philippines government, which caused the bloodshed in Lahad Datu between the Tausug Moros and Malays since tensions were inflamed between Sultan Jamalul Kiram III and his MNLF allies against Malaysia and their MILF allies, which only benefited the Philippine government in isolating the MNLF. Reconciliation needs to be promoted between the MNLF factions, the MILF and Malaysia, and BIFF, and then they can present a united front against the Philippine government.

 

[Zero_wing]

Wow really you should check the whole thing before making stupid comment like this again your post is all anti filipino neo nazi b.s us the real enemy while government is trying to save both republic and lives of the people living in Mindanao and that the true you have no idea how people live in Mindanao because this conflict and now chance for peace is here they will size it this trouble makers kinda like you and you chinese anti filipino neo nazi will fail.

Face it your argument is just full of s with extra stupid on top like your claims you have no real base on reality at all.

 

[Nike]

even Indonesia has good military co-operation with china, so do not see any major conflict between these two

neutrality, is the most importance aspect for ASEAN prosperity and peace

 

[Fsjal]

neutrality, is the most importance aspect for ASEAN prosperity and peace

Problem is that people are taking sides, such as Philippines siding with US. As for your nation, looks like you guys are going on your own path.

 

[peaceful]

I don't know where people get the impression that ASEAN is against CHina. Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand and Brunei have good ties with China. Cambodia, Lao and Burma are firmly in China's camp.

It is a no brainer: you pick Vietnam/PH or you pick China, which one brings more opportunites to the region?

People in Vietnam and PH need to understand this.

 

[nufix]

Its a fact that Sukarno and Suharto and the other Indonesian nationalist leaders collaborated with Japan. All of them were walking around freely and serving with the Japanese puppet administration, while anti-Japanese people like the Sultan of Pontianak were locked up.

If I say Hungary collaborated with Germany during World War 2 (a very real fact), am I acting as if I know alot about Hungarian history?

What uniform is Sutomo wearing?

You are not entirely right and not entirely wrong. There are two different time spans between nationalists being Japanese supporters and being Japan's enemy. You can't generalize all nationalists as collaborators to the Japanese, they were in fact, using them.

The early Japanese invasion to Java and other Dutch held territories were viewed as a liberation attempt for Asian. Of course the newly formed Nationalist movement were in need of support, mainly training and equipment. Also the Japanese provided Indonesian youth training, weapons, and gave more political roles. Soekarno's name became famous under Japan's propaganda of nationalism of Indonesia.

The final Japanese Occupation was ended with many bloodbath between PETA (Indonesian Volunteer Troops, Embryo of Indonesian National Armed Forces) and IJN personals, as Japan's occupation was viewed as another type of imperialism. Many were forced to work under Romusha program to build railways, bunkers, and tunnels. That kind of mistreatment led to an armed rebellion which many of them were led and done by PETA members itself such as:

PETA Rebellion in Blitar, led by Let.Col. Syodanco Supriyadi (29 Feb 1945)

PETA Rebellion in Pidie, Aceh, led by Gyugun Teuku Hamid (November 1944)

PETA Rebellion in Gumilir, Cilacap, led by Gundanco Kusaeri (April 1945)

As well as political underground movement, led by Sutan Syahrir, Sukarni, Adam Malik, Pandu Wiguna, Syarif Thayeb, Eri Sudewo, Chairul Saleh, and Mr. Achmad Subardjo


As for Sutomo, the photo was taken during the battle of Surabaya 1945. The photo of him wearing Japanese uniform didn't relate to your statement of Nationalist being collaborators of the Japanese, that is because many Indonesian youths were member of Japanese organized PETA voluntary army and Soetomo was one of PETA member.

As for Soeharto, his role in military was actually started from him being a member of Dutch colonial force "KNIL" in 1940, during World War II he was sent to Bandung as s replacement troop. He officially entered service in Indonesian Army in 5 October 1945 and participated in general offensive to the Dutch held territory of Jogjakarta city 4 years later.

 

[NiceGuy]

It is a no brainer: you pick Vietnam/PH or you pick China, which one brings more opportunites to the region?

People in Vietnam and PH need to understand this.

We understand that we should raise Chinese in ASEAN untill they r rich enough, then we will loot all of their properties and kick them back to China mainland after that like what we did in 1979

 

[Soryu]

It is a no brainer: you pick Vietnam/PH or you pick China, which one brings more opportunites to the region?

People in Vietnam and PH need to understand this.

LOL, Opportunites and threat. Philippine picked China side in 2007 and 2009, when they refused to Joint submission by Malaysia and Viet Nam for Continental Shelf , and now, they tasted bitterness of their choice.

Cambodia, Lao and Burma are firmly in China's camp

Cambodia want China's money and investment, if you can't give them, so they will go to Western.

Laos is Vietnamese's brother. They also want investment from outside to boost their economy, but they saw Cambodian fate when Cambodia became China's camp.

Burma !? They opened the door, now, they will love anyone who give them best benefits.

Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand and Brunei have good ties with China

Yes, They are. But They also have very good relationship with Western. And Did you ever heard what's Singaporean said about PRC !?

Many China believe Vietnam go to USA to get help. If that's true, so what's choice !?

So many people think Political is very simple that we only see and choice or pick a side to stand, .

 

[Wholegrain]

You are not entirely right and not entirely wrong. There are two different time spans between nationalists being Japanese supporters and being Japan's enemy. You can't generalize all nationalists as collaborators to the Japanese, they were in fact, using them.

The early Japanese invasion to Java and other Dutch held territories were viewed as a liberation attempt for Asian. Of course the newly formed Nationalist movement were in need of support, mainly training and equipment. Also the Japanese provided Indonesian youth training, weapons, and gave more political roles. Soekarno's name became famous under Japan's propaganda of nationalism of Indonesia.

The final Japanese Occupation was ended with many bloodbath between PETA (Indonesian Volunteer Troops, Embryo of Indonesian National Armed Forces) and IJN personals, as Japan's occupation was viewed as another type of imperialism. Many were forced to work under Romusha program to build railways, bunkers, and tunnels. That kind of mistreatment led to an armed rebellion which many of them were led and done by PETA members itself such as:

PETA Rebellion in Blitar, led by Let.Col. Syodanco Supriyadi (29 Feb 1945)

PETA Rebellion in Pidie, Aceh, led by Gyugun Teuku Hamid (November 1944)

PETA Rebellion in Gumilir, Cilacap, led by Gundanco Kusaeri (April 1945)

As well as political underground movement, led by Sutan Syahrir, Sukarni, Adam Malik, Pandu Wiguna, Syarif Thayeb, Eri Sudewo, Chairul Saleh, and Mr. Achmad Subardjo


As for Sutomo, the photo was taken during the battle of Surabaya 1945. The photo of him wearing Japanese uniform didn't relate to your statement of Nationalist being collaborators of the Japanese, that is because many Indonesian youths were member of Japanese organized PETA voluntary army and Soetomo was one of PETA member.

As for Soeharto, his role in military was actually started from him being a member of Dutch colonial force "KNIL" in 1940, during World War II he was sent to Bandung as s replacement troop. He officially entered service in Indonesian Army in 5 October 1945 and participated in general offensive to the Dutch held territory of Jogjakarta city 4 years later.

How come Indonesians need training, while Moros needed no training or foreign help at all in Mindanao? They just went juramendato (suicide attack) on the American and Japanese soldiers without needing any assistance.

We understand that we should raise Chinese in ASEAN untill they r rich enough, then we will loot all of their properties and kick them back to China mainland after that like what we did in 1979

Please go to the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao in Sulu, and try looting the properties of the Chinese-Moro families like Governor Abdusakur Tan's or Datu Piang's descendants, and Vietnam will welcome you home in pieces. It's part of ASEAN isn't it?

 

[nufix]

How come Indonesians need training, while Moros needed no training or foreign help at all in Mindanao? They just went juramendato (suicide attack) on the American and Japanese soldiers without needing any assistance.

And you wonder why they aren't gaining what they wish until now? Let's just say Indonesians were smarter on this one than those in Mindanao.

The actual war theatre for Indonesians at that time is not really in the pre-independence time against the Japs(1940-1945), but actually during a decade after that period. BPUPKI and later PPKI (Councils for Preparation of the Independence of Indonesia) led by Soekarno was more serious in planning on building a nation rather than Moros, the members knew that the proclamation of Indonesia would eventually draw Dutch forces attention in attempt to regain their colonies, therefore the newly founded nation needed an organized and well trained soldiers to repell British backed Dutch invasion. Our war of independence lasted almost 10 years, and guess what? We defended the country well eventhough British backed Dutch invaded us twice. And can you imagine if Indonesian youths just rushed into the war without proper training, equipment, or command chain?

Nowaday's TNI (Indonesian national armed forces) was firstly joined by former PETA and KNIL members when its name was still BKR (People's safety army). And the BKR fought the war with a clear command chain, enough men, and relatively proper equipment, heck they even got tanks and aircraft. They got good political back ups and got diplomatical supports from Indonesian diplomats as they were organized under the same flag and fought under the same legal constitution.

Suicidal attack sounds scary, i'd poop in my pants, but in a warfare you need more than that. You need an organized and well trained men, determined and doctrined to follow commands of their officers. Their officers must have a clear centralized decision from their high ranking generals before they do anything. Now tell me if Moros had an adequate structure, as organized as PPKI and BKR, during their war against Americans?

 

[Wholegrain]

And you wonder why they aren't gaining what they wish until now? Let's just say Indonesians were smarter on this one than those in Mindanao.

The actual war theatre for Indonesians at that time is not really in the pre-independence time against the Japs(1940-1945), but actually during a decade after that period. BPUPKI and later PPKI (Councils for Preparation of the Independence of Indonesia) led by Soekarno was more serious in planning on building a nation rather than Moros, the members knew that the proclamation of Indonesia would eventually draw Dutch forces attention in attempt to regain their colonies, therefore the newly founded nation needed an organized and well trained soldiers to repell British backed Dutch invasion. Our war of independence lasted almost 10 years, and guess what? We defended the country well eventhough British backed Dutch invaded us twice. And can you imagine if Indonesian youths just rushed into the war without proper training, equipment, or command chain?

Nowaday's TNI (Indonesian national armed forces) was firstly joined by former PETA and KNIL members when its name was still BKR (People's safety army). And the BKR fought the war with a clear command chain, enough men, and relatively proper equipment, heck they even got tanks and aircraft. They got good political back ups and got diplomatical supports from Indonesian diplomats as they were organized under the same flag and fought under the same legal constitution.

Suicidal attack sounds scary, i'd poop in my pants, but in a warfare you need more than that. You need an organized and well trained men, determined and doctrined to follow commands of their officers. Their officers must have a clear centralized decision from their high ranking generals before they do anything. Now tell me if Moros had an adequate structure, as organized as PPKI and BKR, during their war against Americans?

The Chinese-Moro Gumbay Piang founded Moro-Bolo Battalion during the war against Japan but he specifically did not take up arms against the Americans.

Other Moros fought against Americans and Japanese as individuals.The juramentado fights alone, his aim is to get killed while killing as many enemies as possible, it doesn't require following orders.

Juramentado - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

a Muslim Moro of the early 20th century who took an oath to die while engaged in killing infidels

Juramentado | Define Juramentado at Dictionary.com

a Muslim, especially a Moro, bound by an oath to be killed fighting against Christians and other infidels

Filipino Heritage: The Spanish colonial period (late 19th century) - Alfredo R. Roces - Google Books

Filipinas - Google Books

Filipino Heritage: The Spanish Colonial period (Late 19th Century): The ... - Alfredo R. Roces - Google Books

Fact: The juramentado 's act was never done against members of ethnic groups not considered military enemies of the Tausug, or against those not actively attempting to take the Tausug away from the Islam faith. The juram en tado ' s act was occasionally performed against the Japanese during World War II— and the Japanese were clearly defined as enemies. The juramentado never went after Chinese residents in spite of the fact that the Chinese were non-Muslims.

The Moros were doing it against the Americans even just weeks before the Japanese invaded, this article seems to confuse juramentado with going amok though, because juramentados don't kill random bystanders or their own co-religionists, they only focus on enemy soldiers. They never let the Americans or Japanese have a night without sleep.

TERRITORIES: Terror in Jolo - TIME

On the Road Home

Leonard Wood

Philippine Daily Inquirer - Google News Archive Search

They did it against the Spanish too. One Moro could kill fifteen Spaniards before being killed.

Our wars and new possessions analytical reference - James William Buel, Marcus Joseph Wright - Google knygos

Swish of the Kris, the Story of the Moros, Authorized and Enhanced Edition - Vic Hurley - Google knygos

The gems of the East