Malaysia splits with Asean on China Sea threat

[nufix]

The Chinese-Moro Gumbay Piang founded Moro-Bolo Battalion during the war against Japan but he specifically did not take up arms against the Americans.

Other Moros fought against Americans and Japanese as individuals.The juramentado fights alone, his aim is to get killed while killing as many enemies as possible, it doesn't require following orders.

Juramentado - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



Juramentado | Define Juramentado at Dictionary.com



Filipino Heritage: The Spanish colonial period (late 19th century) - Alfredo R. Roces - Google Books

Filipinas - Google Books

Filipino Heritage: The Spanish Colonial period (Late 19th Century): The ... - Alfredo R. Roces - Google Books



The Moros were doing it against the Americans even just weeks before the Japanese invaded, this article seems to confuse juramentado with going amok though, because juramentados don't kill random bystanders or their own co-religionists, they only focus on enemy soldiers. They never let the Americans or Japanese have a night without sleep.

TERRITORIES: Terror in Jolo - TIME

On the Road Home

Leonard Wood

Philippine Daily Inquirer - Google News Archive Search

They did it against the Spanish too. One Moro could kill fifteen Spaniards before being killed.

Our wars and new possessions analytical reference - James William Buel, Marcus Joseph Wright - Google knygos

Swish of the Kris, the Story of the Moros, Authorized and Enhanced Edition - Vic Hurley - Google knygos

The gems of the East

You failed to catch up with my points.

I wasn't talking about the mechanizm of Moro rebels in doing their attack, or what kind of casualties they were targetting. My point is mainly about why Indonesians needed proper trainings and equipments. Moro and Mindanao in general wasn't too serious in forming an organized armed force under one chain of command and political and diplomatical support. Probably because their priorities were to defend their homeland and the sultan, not as a struggle at a nation-wide revolution like Indonesia. Therefore you can't compare Indonesians, needed training and proper equipment, with Moros.

Indonesian independence war is far bigger than anything Moros had fought, the scale took up the entire archipelago into the war, not regional like Moros. And the aim of the war was to defend the newly country against Britain and Dutch and form a permanent armed force for the future safety of the country.

Mindanao fought bravely and fiercly I give you that, but not enough to defend a country because they were fighting for local-scale purpose. They didn't even have a clear chain of command, that made many dualisms between self proclaimed Sultans and datus. Pre Moro rebellion saw at least 32 self proclaimed sultans, while pre Indonesian independence periode only saw Soekarno as the president and Hatta as vice president. And Indonesian military only saw one Fieldgeneral, Gen. Soerdirman.

And Mindanao ended up being another region of another country instead of independent like they wish, while Indonesia actually became a country.

 

[Wholegrain]

You failed to catch up with my points.

I wasn't talking about the mechanizm of Moro rebels in doing their attack, or what kind of casualties they were targetting. My point is mainly about why Indonesians needed proper trainings and equipments. Moro and Mindanao in general wasn't too serious in forming an organized armed force under one chain of command and political and diplomatical support. Probably because their priorities were to defend their homeland and the sultan, not as a struggle at a nation-wide revolution like Indonesia. Therefore you can't compare Indonesians, needed training and proper equipment, with Moros.

Indonesian independence war is far bigger than anything Moros had fought, the scale took up the entire archipelago into the war, not regional like Moros. And the aim of the war was to defend the newly country against Britain and Dutch and form a permanent armed force for the future safety of the country.

Mindanao fought bravely and fiercly I give you that, but not enough to defend a country because they were fighting for local-scale purpose. They didn't even have a clear chain of command, that made many dualisms between self proclaimed Sultans and datus. Pre Moro rebellion saw at least 32 self proclaimed sultans, while pre Indonesian independence periode only saw Soekarno as the president and Hatta as vice president. And Indonesian military only saw one Fieldgeneral, Gen. Soerdirman.

And Mindanao ended up being another region of another country instead of independent like they wish, while Indonesia actually became a country.

Both "Indonesian" and "Moro" identities are actually the result of colonialism and adopted in order for unity to transcent ethnic groups.

The term "Moro" was originally a slur used by the Spanish against the different, and disunited Muslim ethnic groups of Mindanao and Sulu, deriving from the Moors, the enemies of Spain during the Reconquesta. It was adopted by the Moros themselves only within the past century while they were under American rule, in order to give them a unified identity in opposition to Filipino Catholics. They used to call themselves by their ethnic names like Tausug and Maguindanaon. But it didn't work during the rebellion. The ethnic Maguindanaons splintered from the ethnic Tausug dominated MNLF in order to form the MILF, this is how the Moro groups split along ethnic lines.

When the Moros fought the Spanish, Americans, and Japanese, they didn't think of themselves as Moros, they fought because their enemies were uninvited invaders.

In the Java War in 1741, both the Chinese and Javanese rebels didn't think of themselves as Indonesians when fighting the Dutch, in the Padri War, the Padri Minangkabau didn't think they were Indonesians, in the Aceh war, the Acehnese did not think they were Indonesians. They fought the Dutch because they were uninvited invaders.

All of those wars were lost due to native collaboration. The Madurese helped the Dutch against the Chinese and Javanese, the Adat following Minankabau helped the Dutch against the Padri Minangkabau, and most of the Dutch army against Aceh were natives.

The different Moro ethnic groups now have been split and the MILF were promised rewards and power, like how the Dutch splintered the Madurese and promised them rewards if they fought in Java.

 

[nufix]

Both "Indonesian" and "Moro" identities are actually the result of colonialism and adopted in order for unity to transcent ethnic groups.

The term "Moro" was originally a slur used by the Spanish against the different, and disunited Muslim ethnic groups of Mindanao and Sulu, deriving from the Moors, the enemies of Spain during the Reconquesta. It was adopted by the Moros themselves only within the past century while they were under American rule, in order to give them a unified identity in opposition to Filipino Catholics. They used to call themselves by their ethnic names like Tausug and Maguindanaon. But it didn't work during the rebellion. The ethnic Maguindanaons splintered from the ethnic Tausug dominated MNLF in order to form the MILF, this is how the Moro groups split along ethnic lines.

That's why I said that Mindanao and Indonesia were and are in totally different type of war, and both needed different approach on how to prepare themselves for the upcoming war. Mindanao ethnic groups didn't and don't really unite each other under the same broader identity because their goal was and is still limited to each ethnic's prominence. Indonesians in the other hand, fought a war with the same warcry "Merdeka, atau Mati" and "Hidup Soekarno", and every commander listened up to what President said.

When the Moros fought the Spanish, Americans, and Japanese, they didn't think of themselves as Moros, they fought because their enemies were uninvited invaders.

In the Java War in 1741, both the Chinese and Javanese rebels didn't think of themselves as Indonesians when fighting the Dutch, in the Padri War, the Padri Minangkabau didn't think they were Indonesians, in the Aceh war, the Acehnese did not think they were Indonesians. They fought the Dutch because they were uninvited invaders.

All of those wars were lost due to native collaboration. The Madurese helped the Dutch against the Chinese and Javanese, the Adat following Minankabau helped the Dutch against the Padri Minangkabau, and most of the Dutch army against Aceh were natives.

That is a totally different time span you brought here, before Perkumpulan Boedi Oetomo (League of Budi Utomo) was formed in 1908, Indonesians were not really seeing themselves as one, therefore their wars were seemingly simulant to the Moros, sporadic and local-scale because the war didn't take an entire archipelago. That made the war easier for the Dutch, they could just concentrate their firepower onto the rebelling regions.

Now since you brought up the time span of Indonesia, collaborated with Japanese in the first place, then you are talking about the era after the League of Budi Utomo was formed.

The different Moro ethnic groups now have been split and the MILF were promised rewards and power, like how the Dutch splintered the Madurese and promised them rewards if they fought in Java.

That's why I said that you can't directly compare Indonesians struggle for independence and its war efforts with those in Mindanao. Moros struggle is more likely comparable to the condition of Indonesia before 1908, where the war was still fought sporadically and mainly for regional and ethnic prominence.

 

[Nike]

That's why I said that Mindanao and Indonesia were and are in totally different type of war, and both needed different approach on how to prepare themselves for the upcoming war. Mindanao ethnic groups didn't and don't really unite each other under the same broader identity because their goal was and is still limited to each ethnic's prominence. Indonesians in the other hand, fought a war with the same warcry "Merdeka, atau Mati" and "Hidup Soekarno", and every commander listened up to what President said.

When the Moros fought the Spanish, Americans, and Japanese, they didn't think of themselves as Moros, they fought because their enemies were uninvited invaders.



That is a totally different time span you brought here, before Perkumpulan Boedi Oetomo (League of Budi Utomo) was formed in 1908, Indonesians were not really seeing themselves as one, therefore their wars were seemingly simulant to the Moros, sporadic and local-scale because the war didn't take an entire archipelago. That made the war easier for the Dutch, they could just concentrate their firepower onto the rebelling regions.

Now since you brought up the time span of Indonesia, collaborated with Japanese in the first place, then you are talking about the era after the League of Budi Utomo was formed.



That's why I said that you can't directly compare Indonesians struggle for independence and its war efforts with those in Mindanao. Moros struggle is more likely comparable to the condition of Indonesia before 1908, where the war was still fought sporadically and mainly for regional and ethnic prominence.

He had his version of Indonesian history, in which you can't find it in any books in any library in the world or reference books from any University in this World. You can only find it in his damn rooted no-brain head

 

[Zero_wing]

Hahaha looks like our Indonesia forumer just call on whole b.s rant as it is total bull

 

[Wholegrain]

He had his version of Indonesian history, in which you can't find it in any books in any library in the world or reference books from any University in this World. You can only find it in his damn rooted no-brain head

Can you point out where I stated anything untrue?