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Make women observe 'pardha': JuD chief (PROBABLE MISQUOTE)

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An estimated of 45% women in your enlightened Europe and America get beatings by husbands and boyfriends. The number of rapes happen throughout Europe and America are no where to be found in Muslim countries. So much for women rights I guess.

1. Don't associate me with the apologetic group.
2. Are rape victims offered help to recover or are they declared bane for the family, having caused dishonour or suffer not being "offered" marriage proposals because of a horrible event?
3. Do the rapists go free? Are they protected by everyday goons, feudals and "powerful people"?
4. Does even getting an FIR registered require political and social support? Does the rape victims family suffer ordeals at the hand of the rapists and the thugs they hire after the horrible event?
5. How many rape victims face fear of further social abuse when even reporting their case?

Obviously, this is highly dependent on wide ranging factors of governance but social constructs about morality and general social behaviour do play a role.

Sexual violence has absolutely nothing to do with social liberty or lack thereof. It is solely the product of perversion and the monsters that commit these crimes are present across national and social boundaries.

The appalling treatment of women in our society does not require debates over conditions in western countries. Male chauvinism, self supposed superiority and violence towards female is not dead and may never die but it needs to be dealt with properly.
 
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@ EmoGirl and SparklingsWay

Girls Face Sexual Pressures in Co-ed Schools - Single Gender Schools Remove Pressures So Girls Get Better Education - Girls Learn Differently

Once girls go through puberty and look like women, the boys at their schools sexually harass them.

In survey after survey overwhelming majorities of American high school girls report putting up with lewd comments, boys brushing against them in a sexual way, bra snapping, unwanted kissing and fondling, and sexually explicit comments publicly posted on the Internet and in high school corridors and bathrooms. Seventeen Magazine received over 2000 responses to its survey about sexual harassment, with 89% of respondents saying that they had been victims of unwanted touching and remarks at school.

A big 1993 study by the American Association of University Women in conjunction with Louis Harris Polls revealed that one high school girl in four experiences forced kissing. Another 15% had their clothes pulled off. Two-thirds of the girls answered that sexual harassment happened "often," with 18% reported that some of it was done by adult males at their schools. Even in as enlightened an environment as a Stanford University co-ed dorm, boys "rated" girls on the basis of their attractiveness and posted the ratings on a public board.

Trudy Hammer, in her book The Gender Gap in Schools, says that the environment girls face is much more sexualized today than it was in their parents' day. She reports that there are 27 sex scenes per hour every day on television. These shows depict sex between people who don't know each other very well and who proceed without any discussion of AIDS, herpes or other sexually transmitted diseases.

Mary Pipher in her classic best-seller, Reviving Orphelia, writes that other generations of parents could use the environment and cultural values to help them raise their daughters. Today's parents impart values only by working against the overly sexualized and materialistic environment that surrounds their children.

Girls are under enormous peer pressure to be pretty and dress like the sexy images of females they see on television and magazines. They are terrified of being fat. Eleven percent would abort a child if it had a tendency for obesity. By age nine, half the girls are on diets and by high school, many are on starvation diets. Pipher cites evidence that these diets take away from girls' ability to concentrate and perform in school.

Girls are becoming more sexually active and having more partners at earlier ages, even as the teen pregnancy rate is declining. While boys feel pressure to lose their virginity, girls feel pressured to keep it and usually regret having intercourse. They are afraid of getting pregnant and earning bad reputations, but agree to sex in order to please their boyfriends. According to a study reported by Gayle Kimball, 62% of the girls who had sex wished they had not, and 59% said they don't enjoy sex (compared to 81% of the boys).

In our country, 35% of teen girls become pregnant at least once before turning 20, and 78% of teenage pregnancies are unintended, according to a 2004 report from the U.S. Congress Pro-Choice Caucus. The birth rate among American teenagers is the highest in the developed world. It is twice as high as England's, three times as high as Australia's, four times as high as Germany's, six times as high as France's, eight times as high as the Netherlands', and 15 times as high as Japan's. Although the birthrate among American teenagers has been declining since the mid-1990s, about 900,000 girls still get pregnant every year in this country with about half of those pregnancies ending in abortion.

Adolescent girls who become pregnant are more likely to believe in sexual stereotypes of the ways girls and boys behave. They usually have low self-esteem and are not academic achievers.

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What ye say now?
 
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Please answer me do u see Dr Tahir Qadri or Dr Zakir naik as extremists as well?
Every Muslims who talks about the orders of Quran and teachings of Muhammed is an extremist these days. This has become kind of a fashion to malign Islam and its true followers as much as possible to be called and considered 'enlightened' and 'civilized'. At any rate, your job is to keep saying what is in accordance with Quran and Hadith and do not get tired.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِن تَنصُرُوا اللَّهَ يَنصُرْكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتْ أَقْدَامَكُمْ

"O you who Believe. If you help Allah, Allah will help you; and establish your feet firmly". Surah Muhammed verse 7.
 
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Please answer me do u see Dr Tahir Qadri or Dr Zakir naik as extremists as well?

No.

No further debate from my side, it has turned religious already.

@SilentNinja:- They were harassed by men. They did not harass themselves. Proves a point that men are more violent and chauvinistic.
 
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No.

No further debate from my side, it has turned religious already.

Funny how whenever the topic of religion comes up you all run away!

Its weird isn't it? There are thread with pics of half nude models and dirty posts by many members on this forum, but for some reason we're not allowed to even talk about religion?

Lol, such hypocrisy isn't it? So i guess i'm a terrorist, jihadi, Osama lover, extremist, acid throwing terrorist from North Waziristan because i talk about religion and just because i don't see half naked women as a appropriate thing! Nice logic you people have, so much for freedom of speech eh?
 
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No.

No further debate from my side, it has turned religious already.

@SilentNinja:- They were harassed by men. They did not harass themselves. Proves a point that men are more violent and chauvinistic.

no, stop changing the subject, its proves my point that when a girl wears tight and skimpy clothing she will be harassed and it also proves my point that Co-Ed is a complete failure.!

The prophet (pbuh) said that when a girl reaches puberty (when she gets her period) she should start covering herself (her curves should not be visible)!

But yeah, men should also be ashamed of themselves and follow the example of prophet Muhammad (pbuh). But how do you expect them to do that when everyday they they see girls dressed up in revealing clothes?
 
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Lol, such hypocrisy isn't it? So i guess i'm a terrorist, jihadi, Osama lover, extremist, acid throwing terrorist from North Waziristan because i talk about religion and just because i don't see half naked women as a appropriate thing! Nice logic you people have, so much for freedom of speech eh?

When did I say you are what you said you are supposed to be? Don't assume or label yourself based on hypothetical assumptions.

Freedom of speech isn't being suppressed. You're allowed to say what you are inside the forum rules.

If I don't want to participate in religious debates, it is my choice. Nobody has the right to tell me that I should continue to discuss a topic when religion comes into the debate. I do not want to and will not discuss religion, moral constructs based on faith or interpretation of religion. I have more than enough reasons not to indulge in debate in this area.
 
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1. Don't associate me with the apologetic group.
2. Are rape victims offered help to recover or are they declared bane for the family, having caused dishonour or suffer not being "offered" marriage proposals because of a horrible event?
3. Do the rapists go free? Are they protected by everyday goons, feudals and "powerful people"?
4. Does even getting an FIR registered require political and social support? Does the rape victims family suffer ordeals at the hand of the rapists and the thugs they hire after the horrible event?
5. How many rape victims face fear of further social abuse when even reporting their case?
All true but why let it happen in the first place?

Sexual violence has absolutely nothing to do with social liberty or lack thereof. It is solely the product of perversion and the monsters that commit these crimes are present across national and social boundaries.
There is a proverb in Urdu: Jab ghori (Mare) hinhinai gi to ghora (Horse) daant chirai ga. When a woman would go in Public in compromising clothes and inviting posture, and if she is raped, the blame would falls on the both, the one who invited, and the one who accepted the invitation.

The appalling treatment of women in our society does not require debates over conditions in western countries. Male chauvinism, self supposed superiority and violence towards female is not dead and may never die but it needs to be dealt with properly.
I fully agree but it can not be exclusively associated with the Muslim males.
 
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Every Muslims who talks about the orders of Quran and teachings of Muhammed is an extremist these days. This has become kind of a fashion to malign Islam

You are very right, but you know this inturn happens due to people who think they are the champions of Islamic laws but infact are hypocrites as they themselves donot abide by the vary Islamic teachings which they preach...Its because of these fake Mullahs such an evil class of people have emerged who find it as being Progresive and Enlightened by Bashing the Mullahs with love.

Unfortunately the property to differ btw right and wrong is scarce and eliminating ..!!!
 
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You are very right, but you know this inturn happens due to people who think they are the champions of Islamic laws but infact are hypocrites as they themselves donot abide by the vary Islamic teachings which they preach...Its because of these fake Mullahs such an evil class of people have emerged who find it as being Progresive and Enlightened by Bashing the Mullahs with love.

Unfortunately the property to differ btw right and wrong is scarce and eliminating ..!!!
No this is not because of the fake Mullah or hypocrisy of theirs; its simply because some of us have bought into the notion that religion Islam is the root cause of all our problems. If you happened to get taught by a bad Maths teacher would you leave the Maths subject? I am not going to buy that each and every Islamic Scholar is a hypocrite Mullah, an extremist or terrorist hence all of them should be cursed and along with them the religion.
 
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Here is another interesting article @ SparklingsWay and EmoGirl

Benefits of Single-Sex Schools Girls-only Classrooms and Boarding Schools

The Argument for Single-Sex Schools

Do Girls and Boys Do Better in Separate Classrooms?

More and more research is showing that students achieve and learn better in single sex schools.

In a twenty-year Australian study of 270,000 students, Dr. Ken Rowe found that both boys and girls performed between 15 and 22 percentile points higher on standardized tests when they went to separate schools.

A 2001 British study of 2954 high schools and 979 primary schools showed that while boys at the lowest ends academically improved the most in single sex schools, nearly every girl regardless of her ability or socio-economic status performed better in single sex classrooms than co-ed ones. The study concluded that single sex education was particularly beneficial to girls. Highest achieving students in this study were girls in single sex schools followed by co-ed girls, then boys in single sex schools and finally co-ed boys. The study noted that every one of the top fifty elementary schools and top twenty high schools in Britain are single sex.

In a 1995 experiment in Virginia, 100 eight graders separated for math and science. The girls immediately began to achieve more, become more confident and participate more often in class.

Just within the past few years researchers have used magnetic resonance imaging to actually watch the human brain work. They have been able to observe physical differences between female and male brains as they function, particularly at high level tasks such as the SAT exam. Understanding these differences have led to using different kinds of teaching methods for each sex, which may partly explain why single sex schools work so well.

At all-girls’ schools, girls learn in ways that are in keeping with the female learning style. They use teaching materials and textbooks without male bias. They are freer to participate in class discussions, which boys dominate in co-educational schools. They tend to gain confidence in themselves as students. They tend to score higher on their College Board and Advanced Placement examinations. There are many adult female role models and no favoritism of males. Girls no longer have to live up to expectations that they must be nice, quiet, non-athletic, and passive.

College professor Robin Robertson said she could identify students from girls’ school on the first day of class. “They were the young women whose hands shot up in the air, who were not afraid to defend their positions, and who assumed I would be interested in their perspective.”

In all-girls schools, girls take over all the positions of leadership in the school whether it’s drama, sports, yearbook, or debate team. Students are more likely to continue in math and science and athletics. For example, 14% major in math compared to 10% of boys and only 3% of girls in co-ed schools.

Professors Myra and David Sadker spent ten years studying sexism in classroom teaching. Two of their conclusions are that girls stay confident and learn more in single sex schools – “where girls are the players, not the audience.”

Girls are free from sexual harassment that affects almost 90% of girls in co-ed high schools. An all-girls school can create an atmosphere that counteracts the negative influence of mass media and its often troubling depictions of women and girls.

Women graduates of all-girls high schools and colleges report extreme satisfaction with their education. One-third of all female members of Fortune 100 boards graduated from all-women’s colleges as well as 24% of the female members of Congress.

Single sex education has been illegal in public education since Title IX passed in 1972. Just twenty years later, only two public girls’ schools were left. Despite all the research that shows both girls and boys benefit from single sex classrooms, organized political pressure prevents any experiments. Public school teacher unions are against “charter schools” (which can be single sex) and many feminists do not like an emphasis on sexual differences.

Meanwhile, applications and enrollment in private all-girls’ schools have been soaring. Since 1991, student enrollment is up 29 percent in member schools of the National Coalition of Girls’ Schools, applications increased 40 percent, and more than thirty new schools have opened.

Read more: In a School of Their Own: Young Girls Thrive in Single-Sex Boarding Schools
 
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There is a proverb in Urdu: Jab ghori (Mare) hinhinai gi to ghora (Horse) daant chirai ga. When a woman would go in Public in compromising clothes and inviting posture, and if she is raped, the blame would falls on the both, the one who invited, and the one who accepted the invitation.

Forcing women to cover themselves will not reduce instances of rape. Monsters exists and they'll rape women regardless of the purdah.

Men rape women, they deserve the exclusive blame. While you can argue that a revealing dress is somehow "inviting", the crime is committed by the male. Nobody asked here to enforce revealing clothing. Enforcing head to toe covering or facial covering falls in the same breath. There should not exists any compulsion on clothing. Social acceptability itself generates the level of acceptance of a certain clothing but the state shouldn't be responsible for enforcing clothing through a moral police.

Walking into a dark alley at night invites thiefs. Falling prey to a sociopath does not require effort just requires vulnerability. Should the victim be accused of being an accessory to theft or aiding his own murder as well? Your argument is valid but it is downright unacceptable to me.

I fully agree but it can not be exclusively associated with the Muslim males.

I did not. I'm talking exclusively about our society. Iran and Turkey allow varying degrees of freedom to females. Even with enforced clothing regulations in Iran, women are far freer than in Pakistan and don't suffer the social violence in events of rape and working women aren't looked down upon as in our case. Turkey, as we all know, is an altogether different case.

As I said earlier, it is our case that I was talking about. Women are subjugated, suppressed, face harassment, are denied their right of property, forced into marriages, beaten in the name of honour, when raped they are considered a bane of shame instead of being helped, are subservient to males in all respects, financial independence is looked down upon, denied education in many areas and so on. Much of this is justified in the name of religion by barbarians and inhumane people. They use religion and faith to justify all their wrongs.

The plight of women in our society goes unnoticed and those fighting for their rights are labeled as "agents" and "traitors" by the mullah brigades and MCPs. The apathy towards woman rights is visible in our society.
 
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Forcing women to cover themselves will not reduce instances of rape. Monsters exists and they'll rape women regardless of the purdah.
Is that why the number of rapes occur in Islamic countries are nowhere near to the number of such cases in the other countries?

I did not. I'm talking exclusively about our society. Iran and Turkey allow varying degrees of freedom to females. Even with enforced clothing regulations in Iran, women are far freer than in Pakistan and don't suffer the social violence in events of rape and working women aren't looked down upon as in out case. Turkey, as we all know, is an altogether different case.
I do not agree with you that Pakistani women are any less freer than the women in Iran and Turkey. When I was working in AKU, I happened to have colleagues from Turkey and Iran and they always described Karachi and other major cities of Pakistan comparable in the social setup of the major cities of Iran and Turkey. Now you may be right in the case of societal norms of the rural areas but than it is also more or less similar among various Muslim countries.

Men rape women, they deserve the blame. While you can argue that a revealing dress is somehow "inviting", the crime is committed by the male. Nobody asked here to enforce revealing clothing. Enforcing head to toe covering or facial covering falls in the same breath. There should not exists any compulsion on clothing. Social acceptability itself generates the level of acceptance of a certain clothing but the state shouldn't be responsible for enforcing clothing through a moral police.
In surah Al-Ahzaab, surah Al-Noor, and surah Al-Nisaa, Allah says otherwise and I will follow Allah not you.

The plight of women in our society goes unnoticed and those fighting for their rights are labeled as "agents" and "traitors" by the mullah brigades and MCPs. The apathy towards woman rights is visible in our society.
This has nothing to do with Mullah but the prevailing feudal system, rampant corruption, and social injustice and none of these were ever advocated by Islam.
 
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Is that why the number of rapes occur in Islamic countries are nowhere near to the number of such cases in the other countries?

I do not agree with you that Pakistani women are any less freer than the women in Iran and Turkey. When I was working in AKU, I happened to have colleagues from Turkey and Iran and they always described Karachi and other major cities of Pakistan comparable in the social setup of the major cities of Iran and Turkey. Now you may be right in the case of societal norms of the rural areas but than it is also more or less similar among various Muslim countries.

In surah Al-Ahzaab, surah Al-Noor, and surah Al-Nisaa, Allah says otherwise and I will follow Allah not you.

This has nothing to do with Mullah but the prevailing feudal system, rampant corruption, and social injustice and none of these were ever advocated by Islam.

you spoke my mind! :yahoo::pakistan:
 
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So you think Islamic countries will be more safe palce to live for women in your family?

Is that why the number of rapes occur in Islamic countries are nowhere near to the number of such cases in the other countries?

I do not agree with you that Pakistani women are any less freer than the women in Iran and Turkey. When I was working in AKU, I happened to have colleagues from Turkey and Iran and they always described Karachi and other major cities of Pakistan comparable in the social setup of the major cities of Iran and Turkey. Now you may be right in the case of societal norms of the rural areas but than it is also more or less similar among various Muslim countries.

In surah Al-Ahzaab, surah Al-Noor, and surah Al-Nisaa, Allah says otherwise and I will follow Allah not you.

This has nothing to do with Mullah but the prevailing feudal system, rampant corruption, and social injustice and none of these were ever advocated by Islam.
 
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