“Make in India” for HAL trainer, import of Swiss trainer capped

[SQ8]

Its all because we missed the age of defence Manufacturing and are quite left behind while on the other hand, the Indian Military Establishment have got the taste of worlds best equipment's with which Indian Defence Manufacturing community cant compete. Expectations are high, standards are low.

The problem lies with HAL itself. It is taking too much pride in its specific and limited advances for which is it paying the price of on and off technical setbacks. Yet, it is parading its successes beyond what it can actually achieve.
To quote Top Gun, HAL is writing checks it cannot cash yet it wants the IAF to take them.

 

[kaykay]

NO need to worry MOD is in good hands both projects will be competed soon .

I think HAL should have been rather forced to complete current projects on time than giving them more burden. They already have lots in their plate and they have delayed most of them like hell. Tejas, mk2, AMCA, LCH, Rudra, HJT-36, Rustom-2, Panchi etc.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

BAOCHISTAN MEIN BIJLI NAHI AATI , FREE WIFI BHI NAHI HOGI , NAHI TO RTI KAR KE PROOF LE LETE TUME , MANGAL PE PARTY HAI AUR DARU KA JHARNA BHI HAI , AAJA TERA GUM KAM HO JAYEGA PORKI

LOLLLLL, you may be Hindu (who knows ?) but you are not "Logical" at all.

Are you a poet or do you come from a family of poets; because you speak (and write) such poetic language.....esp the last word in your post.....what literature!
So mian; I nominate you for promotion to the ranks of PDF Analist; what say @Oscar , maybe this guy needs a suitable reward?

 

[AMCA]

The problem lies with HAL itself. It is taking too much pride in its specific and limited advances for which is it paying the price of on and off technical setbacks. Yet, it is parading its successes beyond what it can actually achieve.
To quote Top Gun, HAL is writing checks it cannot cash yet it wants the IAF to take them.

Its not about HAL or IAF.. Its with the entire process. Look at China, they were strong enough to take a stand decades ago. They could have continued to buy Russian fighters but instead chose to make low end versions of the same and made the PLAF use it. Wasn't a wise decision to take then, but now they can boast of a superior manufacturing capability and at par with any western country today.

HAL had and has the will.. Neither the Govt. nor its sole user agreed to compromise on India's national security by taking a risk by investing in R&D while China and Pakistan were rapidly modernizing. While on the other hand our Navy was and is actively investing in Indian Products and chose foreign only if India is not capable to manufacture it in house. Look at the strides that India has achieved today. From corvettes to Aircraft carriers. From Destroyer to Nuclear Submarines.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The problem lies with HAL itself. It is taking too much pride in its specific and limited advances for which is it paying the price of on and off technical setbacks. Yet, it is parading its successes beyond what it can actually achieve.
To quote Top Gun, HAL is writing checks it cannot cash yet it wants the IAF to take them.

Right now; the IAF is going to show how "bouncy" those cheques can be, but HAL is just asking for it.......

 

[SQ8]

You do realize that I'm a finance guy ? O bhai what the heck is a speed bracket ? Explain it to me in English not your Engineering babble !

Ive done finance as well Bhatta and speed gap is not difficult, your brain is just lazy as it is missing its morning dosage of Bhang Patti. in simple terms there is a gap in the training portfolio for an aircraft that can provide Fast jet Training all the way into the Supersonic regime.

The same issue may plague the IAF. It has the 150-250 knot aircraft(PC-7/HTT-40), The 250-500 knot aircraft(Hawk)..but it has nothing to take its students into the supersonic regime and beyond. It could get a LIFT(for which the Tejas is aptly suited) but there is a need for a more stable and safer aircraft to take on that speed range. Examples of such aircraft are the T-38, T-50 and the Yak-130.

Right now; the IAF is going to show how "bouncy" those cheques can be, but HAL is just asking for it.......

Not at the cost of operator lives.

 

[GORKHALI]

Aur tuu kahan rahta hai? Mangal mein?
Isi liye to itnay mangal may lagtey ho; mian.




Are you absolutely sure about all of that? with all the requisite evidence?
Remember the old adage: "Truth v/s Hype".

You want to see official source ?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Ive done finance as well Bhatta and speed gap is not difficult, your brain is just lazy as it is missing its morning dosage of Bhang Patti. in simple terms there is a gap in the training portfolio for an aircraft that can provide Fast jet Training all the way into the Supersonic regime.

The same issue may plague the IAF. It has the 150-250 knot aircraft(PC-7/HTT-40), The 250-500 knot aircraft(Hawk)..but it has nothing to take its students into the supersonic regime and beyond. It could get a LIFT(for which the Tejas is aptly suited) but there is a need for a more stable and safer aircraft to take on that speed range. Examples of such aircraft are the T-38, T-50 and the Yak-130.



Not at the cost of operator lives.

The Tejas will act in the LIFT role; there is nothing else that Tejas Mk1 can do. And do not rule out simulators entirely; though i'd say that you know more about them than I do.

 

[kaykay]

@Oscar Sir, I think IAF's policy about LIFT aircrafts is a bit different. IMO they use 2 double seated trainers in every sqd of same type. Sort of like 16 single seated+ 2 double seated+3 reserve( except MKI where additional aircrafts aren't needed.)

 

[Anees]

 

[Capt.Popeye]

You want to see official source ?

Yeah sure... that is where all the frozen/ finalized specs an tie-ups will be listed...... and will be credible.

 

[Armstrong]

Ive done finance as well Bhatta and speed gap is not difficult, your brain is just lazy as it is missing its morning dosage of Bhang Patti. in simple terms there is a gap in the training portfolio for an aircraft that can provide Fast jet Training all the way into the Supersonic regime.

The same issue may plague the IAF. It has the 150-250 knot aircraft(PC-7/HTT-40), The 250-500 knot aircraft(Hawk)..but it has nothing to take its students into the supersonic regime and beyond. It could get a LIFT(for which the Tejas is aptly suited) but there is a need for a more stable and safer aircraft to take on that speed range. Examples of such aircraft are the T-38, T-50 and the Yak-130.

Tu pehleiii tou Engineer thaaa naaa !

Why do you need a jet that can provide fast jet training when you've got two seat conversion units for most jets out there like the F16Bs ?

 

[gau8av]

do we have any 'goshawk' like upgraded naval trainers for carrier practice ?

how are IN mig pilots trained, simulators and real thing directly ?

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar Sir, I think IAF's policy about LIFT aircrafts is a bit different. IMO they use 2 double seated trainers in every sqd of same type. Sort of like 16 single seated+ 2 double seated+3 reserve( except MKI where additional aircrafts aren't needed.)

It is a flawed policy that both airforces have done. Using the Mig-12U or FT-7P is essentially giving students a sudden jump with more than they can handle. Neither of these aircraft are easy to handle and therefore teaching students complex manoeuvres in a carefree environment is not possible; where such attempts were made, lives were lost.

The Dual seaters on aircraft are best ONLY to convert incoming pilots onto that type and not teach them the basics of fighter flying.

 

[Abingdonboy]

NO need to worry MOD is in good hands both projects will be competed soon .

A lot has been said about the DM's abilities and credentials but I am yet to see this turn into reality in a significant way- there is STILL a HUGE backlog of procurements worth more than $20 billion USD that are waiting to be cleared, the OROP issue is still dragging on despite his promises to have it sorted out very shortly, he has come out with absurd remarks about the MKI being a suitable replacement for the Rafale and none of the 3 proposed ti-service commands have been cleared.

A lot of expectations come with him but to date, not a huge amount of results and this ridiculous decision on the HTT-40 is just the cherry on top of the cake.


The DM can still turn this around- clear that procurement backlog, implement the new DPP, get OROP in place, sign off on the new tri-service commands and keep pushing on the procurement front especially in cutting down the red tape.

The problem lies with HAL itself. It is taking too much pride in its specific and limited advances for which is it paying the price of on and off technical setbacks. Yet, it is parading its successes beyond what it can actually achieve.
To quote Top Gun, HAL is writing checks it cannot cash yet it wants the IAF to take them.

HAL have the technical ability to produce the HTT-40 no doubt but it is their mindset and absent foreword thinking that consistently lets them down.