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MAKE IN INDIA-- F-16s ;F-18s: Hunt for new range of fighter jets set to take off NEXT MONTH

Stephen Cohen

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Make In India F-16s, F-18s: Hunt for new range of fighter jets set to take off

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...8-airforce-sukhoi-french-rafale/1/703302.html

The defence ministry is moving fast to end the critical shortage of fighter jets in the Indian Air Force (IAF) which has been decommissioning squadrons flying MIG-21s that have been in service for over 50 years.

Hoping to seal the deal for 36 French Rafale soon, India's hunt for another range of fighters will gain ground next month when it gets a lowdown on the plans for 'Make in India' F-16s and F-18s.

Indian officials will get a presentation on the proposals on the two US fighters next month when Pentagon official Frank Kendall will be in New Delhi.

The defence ministry is moving fast to end the critical shortage of fighter jets in the Indian Air Force (IAF) which has been decommissioning squadrons flying MIG-21s that have been in service for over 50 years.

US companies have already made formal presentations on supplying F-16s and F-18s to the IAF but New Delhi wants to make these planes completely in India. The Russian Sukhoi-30 MKIs are assembled in India but the new proposal is to get complete transfer of technology that would require assembly lines of the US fighters to be set up in India.

Sources said that after New Delhi conveyed its plans, the US officials will bring back their proposal in the meeting next month. India is keen on deep absorption of technology, not just bringing the planes in knocked-down kits.

The IAF's requirement for fighter jets is such that there will be enough orders for the companies to set up manufacturing units in India.


NEW PROJECTS ::

During Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Washington, India was recognised as a major defence partner of the US.

Kendall's visit is being seen as a follow-up of the move to explore new projects of cooperation. Sweden's aircraft defence major Saab has also offered Gripen fighter jets but it is yet to make a formal presentation.

The IAF had rationalised fighter operations to delay decommissioning of some squadrons.

New Delhi hopes that the deal to buy 36 French Rafales would be signed in the coming weeks.

The indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas will make an entry into IAF from July 1. Only two aircraft will form the 45 squadron which is being revived. The IAF will have 20 aircrafts with the current capability and equal numbers with enhanced features and 80 with the advanced version which, apart from the new radar, will have capability to fire advanced BVR and short range missiles.


IMPROVEMENTS ::

Officials hope that the strength of the squadron will reach eight by the end of next year. The complete version of Tejas, known as Mk IA, which will bring it at par with the best in the world, is still some years away. This aircraft will have Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) which will enable it to handle several targets.


CHOICE GALORE ::

In terms of the existing platforms, the supply of home-assembled Su-30 MKIs by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to IAF has improved significantly. Last year, IAF received close to 20 aircraft, the highest since production began over a decade ago. The officials said that all options are on the table as of now on the choice of new fighters.

 
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Make In India F-16s, F-18s: Hunt for new range of fighter jets set to take off

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...8-airforce-sukhoi-french-rafale/1/703302.html

The defence ministry is moving fast to end the critical shortage of fighter jets in the Indian Air Force (IAF) which has been decommissioning squadrons flying MIG-21s that have been in service for over 50 years.

Hoping to seal the deal for 36 French Rafale soon, India's hunt for another range of fighters will gain ground next month when it gets a lowdown on the plans for 'Make in India' F-16s and F-18s.

Indian officials will get a presentation on the proposals on the two US fighters next month when Pentagon official Frank Kendall will be in New Delhi.

The defence ministry is moving fast to end the critical shortage of fighter jets in the Indian Air Force (IAF) which has been decommissioning squadrons flying MIG-21s that have been in service for over 50 years.

US companies have already made formal presentations on supplying F-16s and F-18s to the IAF but New Delhi wants to make these planes completely in India. The Russian Sukhoi-30 MKIs are assembled in India but the new proposal is to get complete transfer of technology that would require assembly lines of the US fighters to be set up in India.

Sources said that after New Delhi conveyed its plans, the US officials will bring back their proposal in the meeting next month. India is keen on deep absorption of technology, not just bringing the planes in knocked-down kits.

The IAF's requirement for fighter jets is such that there will be enough orders for the companies to set up manufacturing units in India.


NEW PROJECTS ::

During Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Washington, India was recognised as a major defence partner of the US.

Kendall's visit is being seen as a follow-up of the move to explore new projects of cooperation. Sweden's aircraft defence major Saab has also offered Gripen fighter jets but it is yet to make a formal presentation. The IAF had rationalised fighter operations to delay decommissioning of some squadrons. New Delhi hopes that the deal to buy 36 French Rafales would be signed in the coming weeks.

The indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas will make an entry into IAF from July 1. Only two aircraft will form the 45 squadron which is being revived. The IAF will have 20 aircrafts with the current capability and equal numbers with enhanced features and 80 with the advanced version which, apart from the new radar, will have capability to fire advanced BVR and short range missiles.


IMPROVEMENTS ::

Officials hope that the strength of the squadron will reach eight by the end of next year. The complete version of Tejas, known as Mk IA, which will bring it at par with the best in the world, is still some years away. This aircraft will have Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) which will enable it to handle several targets.


CHOICE GALORE ::

In terms of the existing platforms, the supply of home-assembled Su-30 MKIs by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to IAF has improved significantly. Last year, IAF received close to 20 aircraft, the highest since production began over a decade ago. The officials said that all options are on the table as of now on the choice of new fighters.
of the two ASH makes more sense for future but F16 is a better pakage as of now with very bright prospects to get F35 in future lets see what happens
 
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iaf zoo to continue till 2050:hitwall:. better ask for engine tech and build more rafale and tejas mk1a.
but if we go for american planes go for f 18ash + growler, which is a force multiplier

of the two ASH makes more sense for future but F16 is a better pakage as of now with very bright prospects to get F35 in future lets see what happens

f 35 will have direct implication on amca , but if rafale and f 35 are even close to each other in price range we should ditch rafale for f 35
 
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What about other CISMO and Geezmo agreements required to be signed with USA?? Will we have complete control over these birds??
 
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What about other CISMO and Geezmo agreements required to be signed with USA?? Will we have complete control over these birds??
yes of course :tup:

iaf zoo to continue till 2050:hitwall:. better ask for engine tech and build more rafale and tejas mk1a.
but if we go for american planes go for f 18ash + growler, which is a force multiplier



f 35 will have direct implication on amca , but if rafale and f 35 are even close to each other in price range we should ditch rafale for f 35
we wont be getting F35 at least till 2025 so till then rafale is great and i guess F16V makes more sense as its side kick than F18 as both have almost similar payload while F16V with CFT has more than adequate combat range for us
 
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yes of course :tup:


we wont be getting F35 at least till 2025 so till then rafale is great and i guess F16V makes more sense as its side kick than F18 as both have almost similar payload while F16V with CFT has more than adequate combat range for us
cant we wait for 10 years rather than buying completely new plane. we could simply increase the su 30mki production or buy pak fa lsp. we can have following combination in future:
rafale+tejas mk 1a + fgfa + amca+rest
rafale +tejas mk 1a+ f 18ash + fgfa + amca+rest
rafale +tejas mk1a +f 16v + f 35 :undecided: +fgfa+amca+rest
unless rafale or american teens are discarded welcome to iaf zoo for another 3 decades:angry:
 
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cant we wait for 10 years rather than buying completely new plane. we could simply increase the su 30mki production or buy pak fa lsp. we can have following combination in future:
rafale+tejas mk 1a + fgfa + amca+rest
rafale +tejas mk 1a+ f 18ash + fgfa + amca+rest
rafale +tejas mk1a +f 16v + f 35 :undecided: +fgfa+amca+rest
unless rafale or american teens are discarded welcome to iaf zoo for another 3 decades:angry:
your right too but IAF wants one more MRCA and that too an american one other than rafale till they get FGFA and AMCA and they dont seem to be relenting and LCAMK1A is the right way to go but since we have a new relationship with americans which can work wonders to owr economy in long term we need to oblige them too hence either F16 or F18 is coming period
 
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Actually this is inline with what i have said earlier

see these 2 posts

post 1:

upload_2016-6-29_14-29-44.png

On 26th June
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-263#post-8416070

post 2


upload_2016-6-29_14-28-24.png


thats on Monday 27th June

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-264#post-8417353

I do expect India to do at least $10 Bn shopping with USA in the form of
  • Fighter jets
  • or Jet powered Drones/UCAVs
  • or new P8Is
  • or some strategic project involvement...
  • or combination
This is in line with their support for NSG and MTCR and other groups...

if you ask for a fair opinion, i dont mind say 100 F16s and 60 odd F35s by 2025. The appeasement works both ways... One of course is the jets but second is the fact that these two jets with LM opening shop in India in a proper way can make any opponent think multiple times. Of course with Israeli customizations, i dont see why we cant have something very very customized edition.

But first i would rather try and see if we can buy 100+ jet powered drones and say another 10-20 P8Is.. That can be a force multiplier..

May be add some more 10-20 C130Js or XJ editions too.. That can be very handy for our transport fleet as well..
 
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Actually this is inline with what i have said earlier

see these 2 posts

post 1:

View attachment 314581
On 26th June
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-263#post-8416070

post 2


View attachment 314580

thats on Monday 27th June

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-264#post-8417353

I do expect India to do at least $10 Bn shopping with USA in the form of
  • Fighter jets
  • or Jet powered Drones/UCAVs
  • or new P8Is
  • or some strategic project involvement...
  • or combination
This is in line with their support for NSG and MTCR and other groups...

if you ask for a fair opinion, i dont mind say 100 F16s and 60 odd F35s by 2025. The appeasement works both ways... One of course is the jets but second is the fact that these two jets with LM opening shop in India in a proper way can make any opponent think multiple times. Of course with Israeli customizations, i dont see why we can have something very very customized edition.

But first i would rather try and see if we can buy 100+ jet powered drones and say another 10-20 P8Is.. That can be a force multiplier..

May be add some more 10-20 C130Js or XJ editions too.. That can be very handy for our transport fleet as well..

hope we go for your 2nd trio proposal. we should push for c 130 +predator avenger mii. for the rest fms would be better.
 
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hope we go for your 2nd trio proposal. we should push for c 130 +predator avenger mii. for the rest fms would be better.
fully agree..

its upto DM to negotiate hard and get this deal structured in this way.. predators, avengers, P8Is and C130s - put together a weapons pack and a whole deal of about $10Bn should be more than enough for the time being..

if appeasement is very highly needed then finally add either a small 5-6 sqds of F16s and 4 sqds of F35s or just add 4 sqds of F35s but time F35s post 2022 timeline when the review of PAKFA is over. Bcz India may opt for 100 odd PAKFA during 2022-27 timeline...

if india is forced for F18 then its better India buys a dedicated 2-3 sqds of growlers but nothing beyond it..

Keep the medium category limited to Rafales and once others retire only to Rafales + AMCA.
Heavy Super MKI and FGFA+Pakfa
Light LCA (all versions)
Surprise LIght-Medium in between category - F16s - F35s (avoid first but last resort)

i would always advocate going for C130s line in India .. especially C130 XJ version .. My friend @Abingdonboy knows how i have always said that line can be a game changer for us especially bcz MTA is delayed and An32s will retire in coming decade... perhaps instead of fighter jets a deal to make a good number of XJ could be useful for us in India.
 
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India's Future Plans to Induct

F-16
F-18
Tejas
Rafales
Su-30 MKI upgraded
PAK-FA T-50
Gripen
Also Considering F-35

Which Plane i'm missing Exactly?? Not Trolling
 
.
India's Future Plans to Induct

F-16
F-18
Tejas
Rafales
Su-30 MKI upgraded
PAK-FA T-50
Gripen
Also Considering F-35

Which Plane i'm missing Exactly?? Not Trolling
we are palnning cause we have meens to buy them and have a need for the same too why you so worried :azn:

now the real thing is IAF have three catagories for offensive fighters


so in short its gonna be like

Light = LCA MK1A

Medium = Rafale+ upgraded Mig29+M2K+Jaguar D3 (AMCA for future ) while one american fighter

Heavy = Su30 MKI(FGFA/PAKFA future )
 
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if you ask for a fair opinion, i dont mind say 100 F16s and 60 odd F35s by 2025. The appeasement works both ways... One of course is the jets but second is the fact that these two jets with LM opening shop in India in a proper way can make any opponent think multiple times. Of course with Israeli customizations, i dont see why we cant have something very very customized edition.

The F 35 part you mention is quite interesting. 4 squadrons of F35 (~72 no.s) would mean a huge quantum jump in capabilities, but at the same time would mean a goodbye to FGFA and perhaps a cap on Rafale at 36 being negotiated right now.
However it looks unlikely that India would want to ditch Russia at this juncture (especially after having invested quite a money in PAK FA program).
So maybe what could happen is this:
1. Rafale numbers are fixed at 36 at this moment.
2. US, India and Sweden agree on customized production of Grippen in India.
3. LM gets contracts for Naval deck based fighters F 35C for IN. That would justify DTTI proposal of EMALS for India
4. India gets breathing time on FGFA front.

On naval front IN too gets E2D. Along with P80i, it would mean a huge capability increase as far as naval reconnaissance is concerned in IOR.
 
.
Actually this is inline with what i have said earlier

see these 2 posts

post 1:

View attachment 314581
On 26th June
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-263#post-8416070

post 2


View attachment 314580

thats on Monday 27th June

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-264#post-8417353

I do expect India to do at least $10 Bn shopping with USA in the form of
  • Fighter jets
  • or Jet powered Drones/UCAVs
  • or new P8Is
  • or some strategic project involvement...
  • or combination
This is in line with their support for NSG and MTCR and other groups...

if you ask for a fair opinion, i dont mind say 100 F16s and 60 odd F35s by 2025. The appeasement works both ways... One of course is the jets but second is the fact that these two jets with LM opening shop in India in a proper way can make any opponent think multiple times. Of course with Israeli customizations, i dont see why we cant have something very very customized edition.

But first i would rather try and see if we can buy 100+ jet powered drones and say another 10-20 P8Is.. That can be a force multiplier..

May be add some more 10-20 C130Js or XJ editions too.. That can be very handy for our transport fleet as well..

Could you asked your source about the transport fleet for IAF. Can US C-17 and C-170 be an alternative to the MTA.

On serious note, I believe India won't take any combat drone from US, rather long range reccee drones like Global Hawk, and would concentrate on the Anti Sub capability. For the Tactical Drone, India would pitch for the Israeli alternative, and push the AURA program with an active help from france.

India's Future Plans to Induct

F-16
F-18
Tejas
Rafales
Su-30 MKI upgraded
PAK-FA T-50
Gripen
Also Considering F-35

Which Plane i'm missing Exactly?? Not Trolling

Yeah we have to face, F-16V, F-16 Block 60, J-10C, J-16, J-31, JF-17, Stealty JF-17 Block 4, J-20, EF-2000, Su-35, TFX, JH7B, Mirrage 2005 and that too with TOT.
 
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