What's new

Make F16s and Sell it to Pakistan. France taunting India while Rafale deal weakens further

Regarding 5th Gen Fighters like PAKFA/FGFA I believe it will take time. By 2025-2030 it will be inducted in small numbers and only by 2030-2035 it will find its place in IAF hangers until then its only an assumption.

IAF has sufficient numbers of Su-30s it might add another 20-30 not more otherwise 20-30 PAKFA or FGFA. Tejas will be lower end fighter filling upto 200-300 in different blocks. Rafael will fill in the place where vacuum of shortage of fighters are there i.e., around 200 fighters.

Induction of Rafael will depended on how many fighters will be retired by 2025 and how many 5th Gen fighters are inducted. There is every possibility of transferring IAF Mig-29s to IN to bring down the number of different types of fighters in IAF service. Further in future Mirage, Mig-27s, 29s & Jaguars roles will be taken over by MRCA which was the primary target of that project.

In my calculation by 2030 IAF may have 40-45 sq of 18 each consisting
Heavy - 250+ - Su-30s - upgraded to Super Su & older will be replaced by or 20-30 PAKFAs
Medium - 200+ - Rafael - upgraded or waiting to be replaced by AMCA
Low - 250+ - Tejas - upgraded in different blocks

Brother try to understand the new concept of air warfare. The world 5th Generation Fighter Plane is not just a black painted Plane with diamond shape nose, but the whole technology and the new strategy to fight the war.

Take the case of F-22, one thought of been produced closed to 1000, but than stoped at 187, why because it was more than enough. There are many experts in PDF giving their own theory, but the answer is simple, though complicated, the next gen warfare would be netcentric, well coordinated, multi spectrum, multi sensors, high intensity, short and sharp.

Why Rafale is due to the Fact, it is 5th Gen capable fighter plane that's why French won't need any fifth gen fighter plane rather an important piece called 6th Gen, which is LO combat UAV.

In Indian case MKI would provide the Air Defence Role (Super Sukhoi) till FGFA in full numbers took over the role.
But what is more important is that 5th Fighter planes are very Selective Operation intensive, and in most of the cases you don't need them, and most of the airforce are trying to cut the operational cost.

Before that let me ask you a simple question, what is the cost of the F-35, and how many Remote control Mig-21, flown remotely you can field wrt to the same cost may be 80+. Can F-35 defend the number game........?

To understand fully Read it completely from now onward.


With the proliferation of the HOBS missiles like Python 5, IRIST, and AIM 9X, the WVR fight becomes mutually Hera kari, why suppose A fires a HOBS missile toward B, and during the missile still in its journey B fires its own missile before been destroyed, and A would also be destroyed ( due to the fact that these missiles are getting better and better with 360 degree coverage and highly lethal, which a Plane could not dodge with the limits of G limit ) means both pilots have choose mutual killing each other.

So the world would prefer long range BVR shot, and keep itself safe from strandoff distance.

VLO planes have an advantage, that they could come closer to enemy while remain undetected and could fire BVR while remaining safe, because enemy could not see it and cannot target it.

Stealth vs Stealth

When two enemy planes both LO or VLO approches each other say almost same, the whole advantage of shooting the enemy from safe distance, the whole advantage of VLO/Stealth nullify, because now both the adversary planes have to come close to each other to detect each other.

So the whole Stealth/VLO concept have only advantage, when facing the less superior adversaries, or in short the enemy who don't have stealth.

So what is the broken Piece .......

The one I am referring to as the broken Piece is the VLO UAV, whose detection range would be even lesser than the 5th Gen due to the small size, slow speed, and passive sensors, but would be feed with the updates from the 5th Gen fighter plane, which is far from the danzer zone or in safe distance. And the heavy non stealth platform, but with high number of long range BVR acting as the truck load of weapon, which will fly behind the 5th Gen fighter plane.

So combined all this things what is the conclussion wrt to Indian perceptive

1. Low cost, low operational cost 4 Gen in large number, say 200/250 which is LCA offcource for CAP mission
2. High End 5th Gen around 150 number to counter country with Stealth fighter plane which is FGFA
3. Work horse for heavy lifting for A2G and A2A with large number of long range weapon which will be our MKI
4. LO UAV which could bring the real 5th Gen air fight, which is super secret AURA, which is the most important and crutial in the Future.
5. Rafale and Super MKI would form what in todays we called a Multi Role fighter Plane.

That's why the number of Rafale would depend on FGFA, because if FGFA development would be quick, then Rafale would be low number, else it would be in large number.

If you understand what I what to convey, you should have the answer of the Question, what I asked above about the F-35 and Mig-21

I am working on a thread , and this is just a small glimpse of it, hopefully you like it, and feel free to disagree with it

Regards

@PARIKRAMA @MastanKhan @Abingdonboy @knight11 @Blue Marlin @MilSpec @SR-91 @Ankit Kumar
 
Last edited:
1. I have said all along that Indians are going to get that rubbish called F-35 thrust down their throat.

2. This is an opportunity for BAF. The French might give us a discount. AND IT IS BETTER TO USE OUR RESERVE FUND BEFORE THE CROOKS STEAL THE REST ALSO.
 
It is almost 2 years of NDA in power.......... Nothing is happening, Either you buy the jet, or say i cant buy it...... From mother of all the deals to nothing...........


Ha!! Were you even expecting the deal to fructify? I was saying the other day that this is going to fall flat, much to some incredulity by members here .......!! The issue is not about pricing, the issue is about the exorbitant subsidy bill handed over by UPA in its dying days in form of food subsidy act and the refusal of the UPA to downsize the subsidy size ... they ensured that enough entangles remain that Indian defence needs are forever in cold storage ... in 2010 we were told that the 9mm World War 2 era Carbine was being withdrawn, it is 2016, three generations have retired using the weapon ... now the army has these weapons in peace time units and no ammunition!!!! Because ammunition manufacturing stopped long back !!!!!! It seems we will be throwing these weapons on enemy in case of war ... lol
 
Don't buy it. Use $10bn for something more useful. 36 fighters are not enough for anything.
 
Say even if India starts producing the F-16, remember it's a single engine jet, US or LM will not be too impressed if on 26 January you resort to towing it on a trailer. :)

WOW, a low one consistent with your usual standards!!!! Any problems if we save ATF???? Why does it realllllyyyyy burn you up when we tow the damn aircraft? Any personal grudges? Did you get "shot" down by a tractor?

Don't buy it. Use $10bn for something more useful. 36 fighters are not enough for anything.

Yeah ... lets subsidize a couple of hundred million more babies what say?
 
Say even if India starts producing the F-16, remember it's a single engine jet, US or LM will not be too impressed if on 26 January you resort to towing it on a trailer. :)

You do have a good sense of humour

But dont worry we wont put F 16 on a trailer ;

But you know what

we will keep F 16 at a Forward Air base WITHOUT the US personnel watching us
ALL the time as they watch your F 16s at Jacobabad

And we can change their bases any time we want
we wont need US permission for That

Now tell me Which country should FEEL more EMBARRASSED
India or Pakistan

If Both have F 16 s ; India would ALSO have operational freedom
whereas you would always be under US THUMB
 
You do have a good sense of humour

But dont worry we wont put F 16 on a trailer ;

But you know what

we will keep F 16 at a Forward Air base WITHOUT the US personnel watching us
ALL the time as they watch your F 16s at Jacobabad

And we can change their bases any time we want
we wont need US permission for That

Now tell me Which country should FEEL more EMBARRASSED
India or Pakistan

If Both have F 16 s ; India would ALSO have operational freedom
whereas you would always be under US THUMB
You remind me of the girl who gets married into a fishing community,,,, initially she starts complaining of all the smell,,,,after a few weeks she gets use to it and starts boasting that since i have arrived all the smell has disappeared.
If, when and if ever you get the F-16s [Remember you should have been flying Tejas 20 years ago ....NO EMBARRASSMENT for you there.... and the current Rafale fiasco) then we will talk about who deploys what and where but before that you will need to shed the trailer and acquire the confidence to do some stupendous artistry with some single engine jets.
And what do you know about Jacobabad.....let me enlighten you, the US has supplied us with AMRAAMS and JHMCS....as they are very efficient against Taliban trucks.....get the drift.


AHWJ.png
 
1. I have said all along that Indians are going to get that rubbish called F-35 thrust down their throat.

2. This is an opportunity for BAF. The French might give us a discount. AND IT IS BETTER TO USE OUR RESERVE FUND BEFORE THE CROOKS STEAL THE REST ALSO.

1. Why would IAF will go for F-35, when they have FGFA on offer with 360 degree coverage.

2. Who is stopping BAF to buy Rafale, even now. Infact general Rule, more Rafale production means lesser price.

You remind me of the girl who gets married into a fishing community,,,, initially she starts complaining of all the smell,,,,after a few weeks she gets use to it and starts boasting that since i have arrived all the smell has disappeared.
If, when and if ever you get the F-16s [Remember you should have been flying Tejas 20 years ago ....NO EMBARRASSMENT for you there.... and the current Rafale fiasco) then we will talk about who deploys what and where but before that you will need to shed the trailer and acquire the confidence to do some stupendous artistry with some single engine jets.

Jammer Bhaiya, Kab tak Troller ka Troll karte Rahoge, when you know very well know the answer and got answer thousand times, that Single Engine are kept away from the Republic day as a safety precaution, and it does not meant for every airforce, because Not all Airforce have Twin Engine Fighter Plane to showcase to the event, and in case of India, we have them. Question is of the option available or not, why bother of stupendous artistry and by the way in such event, only a fly past is more than enough and there is no need for 8 G maneuvour display.

let me enlighten you, the US has supplied us with AMRAAMS and JHMCS....as they are very efficient against Taliban trucks.....get the drift.

Janab, how could AMRAAMS and Taliban Trucks are co related.

Few question for your F-16 for you.

1. Why didn't US supplied you AIM 9X, when it don't have any problem with India.
2. Why didn't US supplied you APG 80 AESA Radar with F-16, when it is available, and even offered it to India during MMRCA.
3. What is the availability rate of F-16 in PAF.
4. Does the Programable DRFM is been supplied, and does it operated by Pakistani Technicians or by US technician.
5. Why don't PAF F-16 A/B inducted in 80's gets old, when the whole world is eagerly waiting for the F-35 (With MLU you can change the avionics, but cannot change the engine and the airframe).
 
1. Why would IAF will go for F-35, when they have FGFA on offer with 360 degree coverage.

2. Who is stopping BAF to buy Rafale, even now. Infact general Rule, more Rafale production means lesser price.



Jammer Bhaiya, Kab tak Troller ka Troll karte Rahoge, when you know very well know the answer and got answer thousand times, that Single Engine are kept away from the Republic day as a safety precaution, and it does not meant for every airforce, because Not all Airforce have Twin Engine Fighter Plane to showcase to the event, and in case of India, we have them. Question is of the option available or not, why bother of stupendous artistry and by the way in such event, only a fly past is more than enough and there is no need for 8 G maneuvour display.



Janab, how could AMRAAMS and Taliban Trucks are co related.

Few question for your F-16 for you.

1. Why didn't US supplied you AIM 9X, when it don't have any problem with India.
2. Why didn't US supplied you APG 80 AESA Radar with F-16, when it is available, and even offered it to India during MMRCA.
3. What is the availability rate of F-16 in PAF.
4. Does the Programable DRFM is been supplied, and does it operated by Pakistani Technicians or by US technician.
5. Why don't PAF F-16 A/B inducted in 80's gets old, when the whole world is eagerly waiting for the F-35 (With MLU you can change the avionics, but cannot change the engine and the airframe).

I guess the drift he mentioned is. Taliban TRUCKS.

# Trucks carrying fighter ..

He has repeated so many times,:lazy2:
 
For the people thinking that RAFALE is dead, IAF would get

1) RAFALEs
2) FGFA
3) Tejas MK1A
4) Super Sukhois
5) At least one US fighter (mostly F16)

The big question is not IF but how many of these?
 
For the people thinking that RAFALE is dead, IAF would get

1) RAFALEs
2) FGFA
3) Tejas MK1A
4) Super Sukhois
5) At least one US fighter (mostly F16)

The big question is not IF but how many of these?


if India makes a deal to build F-16s in India the best solution would be for India to scrap the LCA Tejas entirely and let HAL build them. it would free up resources and money for procurement of alot F-16s (proven and deadly) and FGFA


future of India air force could look like this

1) Su-30MKI (over 300)
2) F-16 blk 70 (over 150)
3) FGFA (over 50)
4) Mig-29 (over 50)
5) F-16CJ (at least 50)
6) Mirage-2000


AMCA is still on the drawing board so I won't speculate on that.
 
Last edited:
if India makes a deal to build them F-16s in India the best solution would be for India to just scrap the LCA Tejas entirely and let HAL just build the F-16. it would free up resources and money for procurement of the F-16 and FGFA


future of India air force could look like this

1) Su-30MKI (over 300)
2) F-16 blk 70 (over 150)
3) FGFA (over 50)
4) Mig-29 (over 50)
5) F-16CJ (at least 50)
6) Mirage-2000


AMCA is still on the drawing board so I won't speculate on that.

F-16s would be built by Private consortium including both US & Indian players while Tejas MK1A would be led by HAL.

My guess is that Tejas MK2 & AMCA programs would be merged.
 
F-16s would be built by Private consortium including both US & Indian players while Tejas MK1A would be led by HAL.

My guess is that Tejas MK2 & AMCA programs would be merged.

F-16 is like a super tejas better in every way. If India is getting the ToT and rights to build it in India what's the point of Tejas??

could turn your focus to developing and building AMCA

it would be embarrassing for India to scrap the LCA, but once you got a few dozen made in India F-16s those same people laughing will be crapping their pants.


India will have the most advance F-16 in the world with the mode advance systems and weapons to go with it :agree:
 
F-16 is like a super tejas better in every way. If India is getting the ToT and rights to build it in India what's the point of Tejas??

could turn your focus to developing and building AMCA

it would be embarrassing for India to scrap the LCA, but once you got a few dozen made in India F-16s those same people laughing will be crapping their pants.


India will have the most advance F-16 in the world with the mode advance systems and weapons to go with it :agree:


Nobody provides true technology transfer, it's why local domestic RnD is the only solution
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom