Madina model vital for defence of Pakistan: Saeed

[BelligerentPacifist]

Why don't I see anything wrong in his statement? :/

I see a problem. The Madinanite model has to be preceded by a Maccan model, which is the model of rijaal saazii / mardum saazii - 'building men'. Where are the men who would effect the change that the Madinanite phase entailed.

Also, I think, and wAllaahua3lam, that the Madinanite phase was taufiiqiiyah i.e. it was miraculously delivered unto humanity by Providence. Why would some men come seek knowledge from a community that was being persecuted, ridiculed and openly murdered in Makkah and go back and the quasi-entire city of Madiinah turn Muslim in absentia of the original Maccan community (bar the sole Maccan in Madiinah MuS3ab bin 3umayr R. A.).

 

[EjazR]

Says he who has name of a muslim but sides on with Pagans and infedels.

Madina reminds me ... ummm .... Munafiq.

Just because you can't handle the truth, don't start giving out takfiri fatwas.

What I am saying is based on reading pamphlets from other militant groups like SSP and former LeT members and what they have said. People who had been very close to him earlier and became bitter after Hafiz Saeed was exposed as a puppet of Musharraf and became very bitter with him.

Not only that there are documented instances of how Hafiz Saeed and Co. have appropiated money that was suppose to be given to "martyrs" in Kashmir. So basically, he would incite innocent Kashmiris on the Pakistani side to go kill themselves and then appropiate 40-50% of the cash money that was to be provided to his family.

What is even more sickening and any right thinking Muslim was reject is how in 2004 he married his second wife - 28 year old widow of a fellow "martyr" who died in Srinagar earlier. And then urged his cronies as well to marry other Pakistani Kashmiri widows who husbands were incited to go kill themselves. How much of a low life you must be to take advantage in such a way.

This is why the more "sincere" faction, has at numerous times spoken out about hwo he has been an ISI agent and used LeT donations for his and his cronies personal benifit.

Infact, if here is a part of a speech by Maulana Mohd. Ilyas who will be familiar to those who have an eye on the Pakistani Jihadi scene. He has been a prominent leader of Hakat ul Mujahideen and has actually even fought in his so called "Jihads" unlike Hafiz Saeed who just sits at home, eats donations and marries widows of husbands he sends out to die.

See what he says about Hafiz Saeed

I side with the truth and oppose falsehood. And that is what I am doing here. You may have been ignorant of his background earlier but once you do know about this and still support him, you will have to answer about this on the day of judgement.

 

[53fd]

Just because you can't handle the truth, don't start giving out takfiri fatwas.

What I am saying is based on reading pamphlets from other militant groups like SSP and former LeT members and what they have said. People who had been very close to him earlier and became bitter after Hafiz Saeed was exposed as a puppet of Musharraf and became very bitter with him.

Not only that there are documented instances of how Hafiz Saeed and Co. have appropiated money that was suppose to be given to "martyrs" in Kashmir. So basically, he would incite innocent Kashmiris on the Pakistani side to go kill themselves and then appropiate 40-50% of the cash money that was to be provided to his family.

What is even more sickening and any right thinking Muslim was reject is how in 2004 he married his second wife - 28 year old widow of a fellow "martyr" who died in Srinagar earlier. And then urged his cronies as well to marry other Pakistani Kashmiri widows who husbands were incited to go kill themselves. How much of a low life you must be to take advantage in such a way.

This is why the more "sincere" faction, has at numerous times spoken out about hwo he has been an ISI agent and used LeT donations for his and his cronies personal benifit.

Infact, if here is a part of a speech by Maulana Mohd. Ilyas who will be familiar to those who have an eye on the Pakistani Jihadi scene. He has been a prominent leader of Hakat ul Mujahideen and has actually even fought in his so called "Jihads" unlike Hafiz Saeed who just sits at home, eats donations and marries widows of husbands he sends out to die.

I side with the truth and oppose falsehood. And that is what I am doing here. You may have been ignorant of his background earlier but once you do know about this and still support him, you will have to answer about this on the day of judgement.

First of all, let's get the facts straight. Hafiz Saeed is part of the JuD, not the LeT. The LeT & the JuD are separate organizations. The LeT was responsible for 26/11 in Mumbai, not the JuD. India was asked by Pakistan to provide the proofs implicating Hafiz Saeed & proving the connection between the LeT & the JuD, which it failed to do. The LeT has been clamped on by Pakistan, its members tried in court & it is a banned militant outfit. So please, keep your conspiracy theories & lecturing to yourself, especially since your nation has been state-sponsoring terrorism in the neighborhood for decades.

 

[EjazR]

First of all, let's get the facts straight. Hafiz Saeed is part of the JuD, not the LeT. The LeT & the JuD are separate organizations. The LeT was responsible for 26/11 in Mumbai, not the JuD. India was asked by Pakistan to provide the proofs implicating Hafiz Saeed & proving the connection between the LeT & the JuD, which it failed to do. The LeT has been clamped on by Pakistan, its members tried in court & it is a banned militant outfit. So please, keep your conspiracy theories & lecturing to yourself, especially since your nation has been state-sponsoring terrorism in the neighborhood for decades.

We are not talking about 26/11 here so why are you going off topic.

Read my post, its all based on fact. Then read the first post in the thread. Now, do you support or oppose him? Yes or NO?

 

[53fd]

We are not talking about 26/11 here so why are you going off topic.

Read my post, its all based on fact. Then read the first post in the thread. Now, do you support or oppose him? Yes or NO?

You are talking about Hafiz Saeed, the LeT, & that his organization has donated to them. Where is the proof? India has failed to provide any proof that the JuD funds the LeT. In fact, India claims that Hafiz Saeed is the Amir of the LeT. Hafiz Saeed is part of the JuD, not the LeT. The LeT & the JuD are separate organizations. He is not an ISI agent, but he is free to air his anti-India views in public as long as he has not been implicated for any crime or terrorism. Bharati conspiracy theories never cease to amaze me.

 

[Bhairava]

You are talking about Hafiz Saeed, the LeT, & that his organization has donated to them. Where is the proof? India has failed to provide any proof that the JuD funds the LeT. In fact, India claims that Hafiz Saeed is the Amir of the LeT. Hafiz Saeed is part of the JuD, not the LeT. The LeT & the JuD are separate organizations. He is not an ISI agent, but he is free to air his anti-India views in public as long as he has not been implicated for any crime or terrorism. Bharati conspiracy theories never cease to amaze me.

What's the difference....? JuD is banned by UN as a terrorist organisation [click] and as the "Amir" of a terrorist organisation, he is a terrorist.

Now go ahead, put your spin on it. It's not the Bharti conspiracy, but rather the stupid denial of Pakistanis like you who like to stick their head in the sand that never ceases to amaze us.

 

[53fd]

What's the difference....? JuD is banned by UN as a terrorist organisation (click) and as the "Amir" of a terrorist organisation, he is a terrorist.

Now go ahead, put your spin on it. It's not the Bharti conspiracy, but rather the stupid denial of Pakistanis like you who like to stick their head in the sand that never ceases to amaze us.

But the JuD has not been proven as a terrorist organization in Pakistan, as an umbrella group to the LeT, & that's what matters. Just like India does not accept the UN's ruling that Kashmir is disputed territory. And the UN was wrong when it passed the Resolution 1441 about Iraq's WMDs (which it didn't have) & other breaches. The UN passed the resolution hastily (which is the same thing in the JuD case, when they hastily declared the JuD a terrorist organization) in that case, & the Iraq invasion showed that there were no WMDs in that country. Pakistan asked India for proof implicating Hafiz Saeed & his role in the LeT, but India failed to do so. So that's what matters in the end. The LeT was accepted as a terror outfit in Pakistan as well, it was clamped down, it became a banned group, its people were tried in court. But no such thing happened with the JuD, because no proof was provided.

 

[EjazR]

You are talking about Hafiz Saeed, the LeT, & that his organization has donated to them. Where is the proof? India has failed to provide any proof that the JuD funds the LeT. In fact, India claims that Hafiz Saeed is the Amir of the LeT. Hafiz Saeed is part of the JuD, not the LeT. The LeT & the JuD are separate organizations. He is not an ISI agent, but he is free to air his anti-India views in public as long as he has not been implicated for any crime or terrorism. Bharati conspiracy theories never cease to amaze me.

B ilal please, I am not even discussing his anti-India rhetoric here. I am not discussing his 26/11 connections and what India has to say about him.

I am talking about his credentails of being say a sincere "Jihadi" .

You have not responded or addresses to any sourced infromation. No comment on how he has misappropiated funds from LeT for most of the 90s and how he married a widow of a person he send off to die in Srinagar.

The allegations of him being an ISI agent is being made on camera as I posted on youtube by a anti-Indian group Harkat ul Mujahideen. Maybe you don't know much about militant groups in Pakistan but the speaker is very well known among militant groups. Hafiz Saeed lives under heavy protection of the state security because these militant groups wihtin Pakistan are waiting to take revenge on him for double crossing them.

Can you respect such a man? I can't . He is insulting Islam by linking his fasad with Median and the Prophet SAW Na auzbilah. I don't agree with Harkat and their ideas and actions either but atleast they are sincere in what they do.


Regarding JuD and LeT not being related or JuD not being a terrorist organisation in Pakistan. JuD was only formed in 2003 until when Hafiz Saeed was part of LeT (although he never took his jolly self to any actual fight). These don't mean anything. Even Al Qaeda wasn't a terrorist organisation in Pakistan until very recently. JuD/LeT connection is discussed by Pakistani journalists regularly.
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[lem34]

But what about freedom of speech?? ^^^^

 

[foxbat]

But what about freedom of speech?? ^^^^

what about it???

 

[lem34]

what about it???

well in a free democratic country people are allowed to come and talk about whatever they want. Doesn't mean we have to agree with the guy. Most probably don't. I mean you have people that spot anti Muslim propaganda so what? Just ignore them

 

[53fd]

B ilal please, I am not even discussing his anti-India rhetoric here. I am not discussing his 26/11 connections and what India has to say about him.

I am talking about his credentails of being say a sincere "Jihadi" .

You have not responded or addresses to any sourced infromation. No comment on how he has misappropiated funds from LeT for most of the 90s and how he married a widow of a person he send off to die in Srinagar.

The allegations of him being an ISI agent is being made on camera as I posted on youtube by a anti-Indian group Harkat ul Mujahideen. Maybe you don't know much about militant groups in Pakistan but the speaker is very well known among militant groups. Hafiz Saeed lives under heavy protection of the state security because these militant groups wihtin Pakistan are waiting to take revenge on him for double crossing them.

Can you respect such a man? I can't . He is insulting Islam by linking his fasad with Median and the Prophet SAW Na auzbilah. I don't agree with Harkat and their ideas and actions either but atleast they are sincere in what they do.


Regarding JuD and LeT not being related or JuD not being a terrorist organisation in Pakistan. JuD was only formed in 2003 until when Hafiz Saeed was part of LeT (although he never took his jolly self to any actual fight). These don't mean anything. Even Al Qaeda wasn't a terrorist organisation in Pakistan until very recently. JuD/LeT connection is discussed by Pakistani journalists regularly.
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

I know exactly what the HuM & LeT are. I've done extensive research on these groups & their leaders. At the end of the day, you will say he is part of the LeT, I will say he is part of the JuD and not the LeT. He has anti-India views sure, he talks about Jihad against India, agreed; but as long as he is not sponsoring terrorism, or being involved in criminal activities, he has the rights to express his views, no matter how extreme they are, as long as he doesn't act on them, or facilitate them. Trust me, Pakistan has really clamped on the LeT, captured their operatives, & tried them in court.

 

[JonAsad]

what about it???

Like- Freedom of Speech !!!!!!! Duh-

 

[EjazR]

But what about freedom of speech?? ^^^^

Well he may have the right to show and propagate the wrong version of Islam in Pakistan, but I and others including many within Pakistan have the right to expose his dishonesty and how he is be-fooling the people of Pakistan. To atleast try and show to the younger generation that crazies like these are there only for their own benefit and use Islam for their own benefit. Wether it is siphoning of donations to the "shaheeds" families or marrying young widows of people they have sent out to die while he sits at home and lectures others to do the same.

 

[EjazR]

I know exactly what the HuM & LeT are. I've done extensive research on these groups & their leaders. At the end of the day, you will say he is part of the LeT, I will say he is part of the JuD and not the LeT. He has anti-India views sure, he talks about Jihad against India, agreed; but as long as he is not sponsoring terrorism, or being involved in criminal activities, he has the rights to express his views, no matter how extreme they are, as long as he doesn't act on them, or facilitate them. Trust me, Pakistan has really clamped on the LeT, captured their operatives, & tried them in court.

Bilal, please read my posts. I am not talking about anything to do with India here. Just leave that out for now, that is a seperate topic.

I am talking about his actions INSIDE Pakistan. His actions with the families of whose sons, father and husbands he sent out to die and how he married their widow or siphoned of their compensation money into his own pocket.

And how other militant group leaders consider him a ISI agent and how his own colleagues who were with him in LeT and were locked up in Guantanamo have blamed him for getting them locked up under Musharraf's behest. Anti-state Militant groups in Pakistan consider the ISI/Pakistani Army as a rentier army of the US because of their actions in the past decade and their alliance with the US on the WoT.

Discuss these facts and whether this man has any authority to talk about Islam.