Ma Ying-jeou, Taiwan’s pro-China president, wins reelection

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

the people's livelihood is the most important, no matter taiwanese or mainlander or Hker, we prefer peace and booming economy

 

[TruthSeeker]

Congratulations to the peoples of both the PRC and Taiwan. Peaceful relations between Taiwan and the mainland are essential for the unity of the Chinese people. And, the example of successful Taiwanese democracy is the best "advertisement" for democracy to open the minds and eyes of the people of the PRC!!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Congratulations to the peoples of both the PRC and Taiwan. Peaceful relations between Taiwan and the mainland are essential for the unity of the Chinese people. And, the example of successful Taiwanese democracy is the best "advertisement" for democracy to open the minds and eyes of the people of the PRC!!

I thanked you for the first half of your post.

Democracy is nice in theory but it's not a high priority at this stage of development.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

Congratulations to the peoples of both the PRC and Taiwan. Peaceful relations between Taiwan and the mainland are essential for the unity of the Chinese people. And, the example of successful Taiwanese democracy is the best "advertisement" for democracy to open the minds and eyes of the people of the PRC!!

Mainland can achieve so many successes after our open-and-reform since 1978, one main factor is that China has taiwan and HK. They are the good example of mainland and we did learn so many good things from them.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Democracy is nice in theory but it's not a high priority at this stage of development.

CD, I am not proposing mod-rule democracy, rather a constitutional republican approach similar to the USA. To say that it is not a priority "at this stage of development" implies an ability to "manage" people's aspirations and development. The fallacy of such a notion is that stability can end up compromised by a laggardly adoption of democratic modalities, i.e., Egypt. Just like a business has to be nimble to get out ahead of changing consumer tastes, so an authoritarian government, if it wishes to avoid "revolution", needs to get out ahead of the emerging aspirations of its "subjects". IMHO, the PRC would be better served if it embraces a transition to republican democracy before it is forced into it by street riots.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

CD, I am not proposing mod-rule democracy, rather a constitutional republican approach similar to the USA. To say that it is not a priority "at this stage of development" implies an ability to "manage" people's aspirations and development. The fallacy of such a notion is that stability can end up compromised by a laggardly adoption of democratic modalities, i.e Egypt.

Think about it from our perspective for a moment here. True, democracies in the "developed world" have done exceedingly well. But what about democracies in the "developing world"?

The fact that China is the best performing economy in the developing world, shows how poorly the other developing countries are implementing the idea of democracy.

Would a democratic China be able to maintain our current growth rates? Possibly, though there is also the possibility of implementing it badly... and ending up like any of the other basket-case developing democracies, like Nigeria and the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Why take the risk when the outcome is so uncertain?

IMHO, the PRC would be better served if it embraces a transition to republican democracy before it is forced into it by street riots.

That is a good argument, and the CPC itself (Wen Jiabao in particular) has said that political reforms are necessary for China to continue developing.

But it won't happen soon, especially due to the leadership transition in 2012-2013. They want everything stable for that period.

 

[TruthSeeker]

The fact that China is the best performing economy in the developing world, shows how poorly the other developing countries are implementing the idea of democracy.

Would a democratic China be able to maintain our current growth rates? Possibly, though there is also the possibility of implementing it badly... and ending up like any of the other basket-case developing democracies, like Nigeria and the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

IMHO, China is incomparable to the "basket-case" countries of Africa. The success of China in the past two decades is because the Chinese people are "first world" in their capability to absorb and advance the most cutting edge technologies. Chinese mastery of science and engineering is totally incomparable to the mastery of such things by Africans in Africa. Therefore, I truly believe that the mainland Chinese public is, today, capable of participating in self-government. Further, I believe, that with a good PRC Constitution, that balances individual rights and "national" interests, the improvement of Chinese society would be taken to a whole new level, to the betterment of the lives of individual PRC citizens. I believe that your fear of the ability of your fellow Chinese citizens to handle more political freedom and responsibilities is misplaced and is, frankly, paternalistic.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

China should be thought of as Roman Empire #4, we have no need for Greek ideologies.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I believe that your fear of the ability of your fellow Chinese citizens to handle more political freedom and responsibilities is misplaced and is, frankly, paternalistic.

Possibly so.

Though I don't really underestimate our people in that way. In my home city of Hong Kong, we have free media, and no one has gone insane. Taiwan and Singapore are democracies, and they haven't gone crazy either.

My idea is that it is better safe than sorry. I would prefer to wait 20 years for political reform, rather than supporting a revolution which has about a 50-50 chance of turning the country upside down (in the worst case scenario), or in the best case scenario, only maintaining our current rate of economic development.

Being patient for ten or twenty more years, is not too much to ask, for a civilization that has lasted for thousands of years.

Slow paced political reform is how I envision the next few decades for China.

 

[TruthSeeker]

My idea is that it is better safe than sorry. I would prefer to wait 20 years for political reform, rather than supporting a revolution which has about a 50-50 chance of turning the country upside down (in the worst case scenario), or in the best case scenario, only maintaining our current rate of economic development.

Well, I can understand your sentiment. However, think about the analogy of a managed economy versus a mostly free economy. The managed economy is stable until the unforeseen contradictions render it hopelessly ineffective. So, too, a "managed" (i.e. authoritarian) political system. The danger of saying "let's wait 20 years" is that it is like "political market" timing. Human beings do not behave so predictably, otherwise we would not need the aggregation mechanism of a free market. So, IMHO, the PRC should spend the next 20 years experimenting with political reforms that lead to a more free political system. Perhaps this could start at the lowest level of the political system (towns, villages) and move up. Perhaps this could mean a few officials are elected out of the hundreds that are appointed by the CCP. I don't know. I am saying that you, or your like-minded compatriots in the CCP, cannot "manage" this transition completely. Your nation will do better if you purposefully and overtly plan the transition, even if it is over the next 25 years.

 

[Nan Yang]

2012 promises to be a good year for China. All the chips are falling into place.

It is afterall the year of the dragon.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

Democracy is the world trend. Even the north korean name their country as Democratic People's Republic of Korea

 

[TruthSeeker]

Democracy is the world trend. Even the north korean name their country as Democratic People's Republic of Korea

Which just goes to show that one has to be highly sensitive to the hypocrisy that lurks in the pronouncements of governments....

 

[oct605032048]

Democracies are of many types. Dates back from Magna Carta in our Song Dynasty to the Declaration of Independence in Ming Dynasty to Napoleon and Bismark in Qing Dynasty. All those democratic governments are evolving all the time.

And they do not always function well. Remember the bloodshed and revolution first in England then in France, from Waterloo to Sedan, Ligne Maginot to Compiegne. Let's look at the most successful model of "democracy", in the United Kingdom only 3 million people had the right of vote in 1900.

I lived in China for more than 20 years and it is 20 years of success and rapid development. Not just economy, education, Olympiad and the spirits of people, the nation, the way that people look at and think about the world and about the future. If democracy means "to rule by the people", there is, no doubt, democracy in this country.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

Democracies are of many types. Dates back from Magna Carta in our Song Dynasty to the Declaration of Independence in Ming Dynasty to Napoleon and Bismark in Qing Dynasty. All those democratic governments are evolving all the time.

Above all those democracies which do you think are successful? Bloodshed and revolution first in England then in France, from Waterloo to Sedan, Ligne Maginot to Compiegne. Let's look at the most successful model of "democracy", in the United Kingdom only 3 million people had the right of vote in 1900.

I lived in China for more than 20 years and it is 20 years of success and rapid development. Not just economy, education, Olympiad and the spirits of people, the nation, the way that people look at and think about the world and about the future. If democracy means "to rule by the people", there is, no doubt, democracy in this country.

I dont know which democracy is successful, but I am sure the one in current Mainland is not a successful one.