Lucky escape for 180 after Karachi ATC misleads city-bound Air India flight

[Kloitra]

Let me ask you a question outside the purview of this incident-is the ATC laughing or giggling in reponse to a pilot's request responsible or professional behavior ?
Whether the incident was true or not can be easily verified.I hope its not though, for obvious reasons.

I would give them benefit of the doubt. There is a possibility of gigging be there, but due to some other reason.

 

[Bombaywalla]

not from the regional airports , but jinnah international

Karachi's Jinnah International (serving a population of god knows how many scores of millions) currently handles less passenger traffic than even a tiny city like Bangalore, although given its location, it must definitely handle a ton of overflying traffic.

 

[jbond197]

Lets just hope this was a genuine mistake and probably not to be seen again..

Otherwise, I will be $hit scared flying over Pakistan on my next visit to India..

 

[godofwar]

I would give them benefit of the doubt. There is a possibility of gigging be there, but due to some other reason.

No I would want the ATC controllers to be focused on their bloody job, not laughing or fooling around.
As I said, let the veracity of report be confirmed first.

 

[Donatello]

The article is wrong. But is there any possibility that an ATC can misguide a plane loaded with advanced navigation system, predetermined flight path and other avionics? If it can, to what extent? Sending it to wrong altitude? Heading?

For flights passing over Pakistan, the ATC will only check if the flight is on it's expected path (as such away from any no fly zones) and then ask it to lower or increase the altitude so it won't interfere with local flights coming to land in Pakistan. That's a standard procedure. Generally planes not landing in that region, are required to fly higher than those landing or taking off. Pilots know this and ATC knows this.

The only case where ATC can force a change of heading and altitude is when there is an emergency and airspace needs to be cleared or there is an unexpected aircraft like a fast moving military aircraft.

This is why aircrafts have transponders that communicate the heading, speed, altitude etc of the plane to the ATC on the ground and other aircraft in the vicinity.

Take a case of a stealth aircraft. If it's flying in civilian airspace, it has transponders to relay where it is so that people on the ground and in the air know where the aircraft is as radar cannot pick it up due to low RCS. Obviously not in combat missions.

 

[SHAMK9]

[quote="godofwar, post: 5388051, member: 145011"
I refuse to debate with a person who doesn't think that an aeroplane having communication problems is at a risk.
Donatello ji isko bhi thoda educate karo [/quote]
Fix up your telecommunications or take 787 back to Boeing, Dont blame it on us.

 

[Donatello]

Lets just hope this was a genuine mistake and probably not to be seen again..

Otherwise, I will be $hit scared flying over Pakistan on my next visit to India..

Then don't fly over Pakistan, because we don't care. tens of hundreds of flights pass each day safely. Don't know why India would be so special.

 

[Kloitra]

No I would want the ATC controllers to be focused on their bloody job, not laughing or fooling around.
As I said, let the veracity of report be confirmed first.

It is not an easy job, I am sure without a little jest they would not finish a week.

 

[godofwar]

Fix up your telecommunications or take 787 back to Boeing, Dont blame it on us

I am making one point, and you are saying something different entirely.
Read my post again, slowly if that helps you..
The only thing I have questioned is professionalism of the ATC controllers, subject to the report being true.

P.S Donatelloji lagta hai busy hain, unse baad mein samajh lena

 

[Kloitra]

For flights passing over Pakistan, the ATC will only check if the flight is on it's expected path (as such away from any no fly zones) and then ask it to lower or increase the altitude so it won't interfere with local flights coming to land in Pakistan. That's a standard procedure. Generally planes not landing in that region, are required to fly higher than those landing or taking off. Pilots know this and ATC knows this.

The only case where ATC can force a change of heading and altitude is when there is an emergency and airspace needs to be cleared or there is an unexpected aircraft like a fast moving military aircraft.

This is why aircrafts have transponders that communicate the heading, speed, altitude etc of the plane to the ATC on the ground and other aircraft in the vicinity.

Take a case of a stealth aircraft. If it's flying in civilian airspace, it has transponders to relay where it is so that people on the ground and in the air know where the aircraft is as radar cannot pick it up due to low RCS. Obviously not in combat missions.

What about planes passing through a dense region, probably like the one between Karachi-Mumbai. Given tons of flight, is it a possibility that ATCs have to change the heading of a plane often? Especially for the Mumbai one, given it has to handle many flights, some having delays and staying in air more than predicted time?

 

[jbond197]

No I would want the ATC controllers to be focused on their bloody job, not laughing or fooling around.
As I said, let the veracity of report be confirmed first.

What you want probably wouldn't matter much to them but they need to understand themselves that their job is of utter importance and they are expected to do it honestly because one mistake by them can cost huge number of lives.

The vanishing act of Malaysian airlines plane in itself has rattled the confidence of many and such mistakes do not help either..

 

[SHAMK9]

The only thing I have questioned is professionalism of the ATC controllers, subject to the report being true.

If its true, they need to be fired. The article is full of allegations.

 

[jbond197]

Then don't fly over Pakistan, because we don't care. tens of hundreds of flights pass each day safely. Don't know why India would be so special.

Why are you so pissed off? Did i blame you? You are now promoted to Think Tank rank, don't act like a rookie!!

 

[baajey]

Let me ask you a question outside the purview of this incident-is the ATC laughing or giggling in reponse to a pilot's request responsible or professional behavior ?
Whether the incident was true or not can be easily verified.I hope its not though, for obvious reasons.


Thank you for an honest answer.We are done.
I refuse to debate with a person who doesn't think that an aeroplane having communication problems is at a risk.

lol.....u cant argue with him.....maybe his boss is rough on him today.

There is no proof of what ATC actually did. If pilots think they were really laughing, simple, take it off the Cockpit Voice Recorder and show as proof. Now they can do this, no?

I think Pakistan should actually sue Air India and Indian Media in a court. That'll shut em up.

The next thing AI pilots will say is Karachi ATC asked them to land so they can hop a ride to Mumbai. And people like you would believe it because your media reported it.

ok lets wait for pakistan to sue india......

 

[Donatello]

Jinnah International currently handles less passenger traffic than even a tiny city like Bangalore, although given its location, it must definitely handle a ton of overflying traffic.

What about planes passing through a dense region, probably like the one between Karachi-Mumbai. Given tons of flight, is it a possibility that ATCs have to change the heading of a plane often? Especially for the Mumbai one, given it has to handle many flights, some having delays and staying in air more than predicted time?

The airplanes fly a virtual space in the air, known as 'air corridors'. They are asked to stay within those dimensions. So perhaps an air corridor might be 10km wide while a busy one might be 20 km wide. For aircraft, you can space the planes altitude wise as well. So there are plenty of options. Navigating in this day and age would be virtually impossible if it weren't for Primary and Secondary radar and the Transponders on the aircraft. That is why it is a law in most nations that civil aircraft have transponders installed by default and they should be in working condition.

If you ever fly over Europe, you'll notice a lot of planes flying right next to you ( well, not exactly right next to you, but close enough) and some planes criss crossing above or below you. Europe is one busy airspace.

All these details are all preplanned and airlines are given strict instructions to adhere to their predetermined flight paths.

Case in, the Malaysia Airlines flight 370......Vietnam ATC knew that a Malaysia airlines aircraft would be expected to contact them at a certain point. When they did not hear from them, they sounded the alarm. If flights get delayed for whatever reasons, ATCs have to be updated so they know that they would be expecting the plane after some delay so they are not surprised. ATC and Air navigation is very complex, but safe at the same time due to modern technology. But hey, that's what they are paid for.