Lucky escape for 180 after Karachi ATC misleads city-bound Air India flight

[Pakistanisage]

Indians in the comment section are claiming that Pakistan did it on purpose 787 is a modern jet liner with advanced tcas warning system which would have warned the pilot if the plane came too close to another. The shocking news should be that a 787 flight from london was only carrying 180 paying passengers, poor business

Not only that, but Aircrafts flying a heading of 0 to 180 degrees fly at different Altitudes than aircraft flying headings of 181 to 359 degrees and they are separated by thousands of feet of altitude. So even if they were flying IFR they would not run into another aircraft and more than likely they had VFR weather. Just because the Pilots could not talk to an en route ARTCC did not pose any danger to the Passengers. I am amazed at the ignorance of their reporter who wrote the article with such sensational headline. It is like Blind leading another Blind.

 

[Donatello]

Stupid Indian reporting and even more stupid are those members who are posting baseless claims here. Please use your brains before your fart out MFN and what not.

So many flights pass through Pakistani Airspace on their way to and from India without any such event happening. You can check flightradar24.com if you want.


@Oscar

Please close this thread.

 

[Kloitra]

Stupid Indian reporting and even more stupid are those members who are posting baseless claims here. Please use your brains before your fart out MFN and what not.

So many flights pass through Pakistani Airspace on their way to and from India without any such event happening. You can check flightradar24.com if you want.

Not every flight is guided by Karachi ATC. The issue is following:

"The Karachi ATC did not convey our message to the pilots. It directed the plane to a wrong frequency and gave us incorrect information that the commander will contact Mumbai soon,"

And this:

The Indian pilots who have had to deal with the Pakistan airport ATCs were not surprised. One of them said that the Karachi airport officials not cooperating with the Indian pilots was "nothing new",

Hopefully it is just a mistake.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Was AI pilot busy in performing his official duties? ahem ahem he must have heard the stories of IN and IAF officers having fun inn duty hours

 

[Robinhood Pandey]

Stupid Indian reporting and even more stupid are those members who are posting baseless claims here. Please use your brains before your fart out MFN and what not.

So many flights pass through Pakistani Airspace on their way to and from India without any such event happening. You can check flightradar24.com if you want.


@Oscar

Please close this thread.

Going by the past record, these speculations are not completely wrong

 

[Donatello]

Not every flight is guided by Karachi ATC. The issue is following:



And this:



Hopefully it is just a mistake.

How can the ATC give 'wrong frequency' ? There is a standard frequency for local and airport ATCs. The planes are guided by some other ATC until they are near an airport when they are handed over to the airport ATC. In each case, the frequencies are commonly known.If Air India pilot was flying this leg, he should have it on his nautical charts what frequency to contact Mumbai/Karachi atc on.

Airplanes fly a preset flight path. The data is fed into Flight Director and for an aircraft like 787 it's even more simple. All points that the aircraft is flying through will have references for that day including weather reports, frequencies, location of no fly zones (if applicable) and any alternative airports. If the Karachi ATC gave wrong frequencies to Air India pilot, it shouldn't matter, since the pilots flying the leg would either have flown into Mumbai before and hence would know the correct frequency or if they were flying for the first time, then their charts would detail this.

This was not a random aircraft in a random area in distress, in which case all available radio frequencies are made available.

Now i know you like to post baseless stuff, but i have flown in the cockpit of 777 and A310s and i know exactly how the ATCs work and keep airplanes safe. Also, you can ask any of your commercial pilot friends. They should clear it up.
Like i said, use your brain.

 

[Donatello]

But then again it's India, where pilots were napping while flying.....and managed to crash land....

Air India Express Flight 812 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kloitra]

How can the ATC give 'wrong frequency' ? There is a standard frequency for local and airport ATCs. The planes are guided by some other ATC until they are near an airport when they are handed over to the airport ATC. In each case, the frequencies are commonly known.If Air India pilot was flying this leg, he should have it on his nautical charts what frequency to contact Mumbai/Karachi atc on.

Airplanes fly a preset flight path. The data is fed into Flight Director and for an aircraft like 787 it's even more simple. All points that the aircraft is flying through will have references for that day including weather reports, frequencies, location of no fly zones (if applicable) and any alternative airports. If the Karachi ATC gave wrong frequencies to Air India pilot, it shouldn't matter, since the pilots flying the leg would either have flown into Mumbai before and hence would know the correct frequency or if they were flying for the first time, then their charts would detail this.

May be you missed the article.
The plane had the Mumbai frequency, it was in contact with the Mumbai ATC:

"The flight had taken off from London's Heathrow Airport and its final destination was Ahmedabad. It was already in the Mumbai airspace when we lost contact. As Karachi is a nearby location, we sent an SoS to the Jinnah Airport ATC saying a few basic requirements needed to be conveyed to the pilots urgently," a Mumbai ATC official said.

I would take a logical guess that Mumbai ATC thought that Karachi would be able to contact the plane, and contacted them with the intention of conveying some info.
Now, I am not an expert, and cannot even guess what it means to provide wrong frequency. I was expecting some senior member to clarify the situation, and not that a TT would be making personal attacks on me!

This was not a random aircraft in a random area in distress, in which case all available radio frequencies are made available.

I am sure the plane had the list of frequencies for relevant ATCs, and with the advanced equipment it didn't even needed mid flight. Doesn't matches with the posted story. Which basically boils down to Karachi ATC not cooperating with this flight (and Indian pilots in general).

Now i know you like to post baseless stuff, but i have flown in the cockpit of 777 and A310s and i know exactly how the ATCs work and keep airplanes safe. Also, you can ask any of your commercial pilot friends. They should clear it up.
Like i said, use your brain.

You know I like to post baseless stuff? STOP STALKING ME.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

All frequencies are mentioned in Jeppesen, which is available with all aircrew around the world.
No ATC "provides" frequencies to aircraft.

 

[Not Sure]

The aviation sources said that while the Mumbai ATC officials were briefing their Pakistani counterparts regarding the problem, they could hear laughter in the background. "This is a very serious incident and the Mumbai ATC has taken up the matter with Karachi officially," the Airports Authority of India chairman, Alok Sinha, said.

Pakistanis should keep their apathy restricted to their own countrymen. For the rest of the world, loss of life is a serious matter!

 

[Kloitra]

All frequencies are mentioned in Jeppesen, which is available with all aircrew around the world.
No ATC "provides" frequencies to aircraft.

May be this source is better:

The Mumbai-bound Air India flight AI-130 from London's Heathrow Airport yesterday escaped a near-miss incident after the Karachi Air Traffic Control (ATC) gave pilot a wrong frequency that could have changed the flight path of the Boeing 787 and brought it close to Philippine's Cebu Airline from Dubai.

Air India plane in near-miss as Karachi air traffic control gives incorrect info | NDTV.com

I don't understand how giving a wrong ATC frequency could lead to a change in flight path, which generally is predetermined.
It is definitely a case of misreporting, but I hope some member can speculate what could have happened.

 

[Bombaywalla]

Off topic:

One time, while overflying Pakistani airspace on a Continental Airlines flight from Newark to Delhi, the American captain announced in jest, "some of you folks might be a bit nervous given the country we're flying over? don't be, for on your left, you'll see a string of bright lights (i.e the Indo-Pak border) signalling our entry into more familiar territory. Enjoy the rest of your flight"

I thought it was a bit strange for an airline captain to say, but hilarious at the same time.

 

[Donatello]

May be this source is better:


Air India plane in near-miss as Karachi air traffic control gives incorrect info | NDTV.com

I don't understand how giving a wrong ATC frequency could lead to a change in flight path, which generally is predetermined.
It is definitely a case of misreporting, but I hope some member can speculate what could have happened.

Same non sense again. Wrong frequencies, well do the journalists even understand what they are writing?

Modern aircraft have a device called Transponder that relays important 3D information of the aircraft to stations on the ground and other aircraft to avoid a collision. There are collision avoidance systems that warn the pilots if their flight path are about to merge with another airliner. You don't need ATC help in this regard, except updating them that you are fine and flying the expected path.

The article is written with jingoism and nothing else. What is it trying to say? You tell me. Maybe i can't comprehend, but let's get this straight, you tell me what you understand Mr Kloitra?

 

[Bombaywalla]

Same non sense again. Wrong frequencies, well do the journalists even understand what they are writing?

Simple answer: No they do not. They never have, and quite possibly, never will.

 

[Donatello]

Simple answer: No they do not. They never have, and quite possibly, never will.

In that case, they shouldn't be reporting them. Wrong information being propagated is worse than no information.

If you guys want to chase this, better post it here

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Most incidents, minor or major are reported here.