Lt General (Retd.) Shoaib Amjad is Arrested Today

[Asimzranger]

Someone has very sick fetish of looking people naked

 

[Signalian]

You seem to point out one single case, with obviously the typical attitude of blaming media and how the news is spun, whereas completely ignoring the il effects this news is creating and all thanks to all wise Khaki Pants with Rusted Brass that have got zero of how to handle the mess they created in the first place, As mentioned even during Self proclaimed marshal time when he had arrested Fatimah Jinnah and used to call herkuttey ki bachi, even back then Famous Air Marshall Asghar Ali khan was arrested humiliated and shunned, so it seems like PMA academy failed to update their curriculum on how to actually train civilains into officers, and it fails to emphasize on the Oath of not getting invloved in politics.
I blame PMA for that ? Wouldnt you agree ?

I gave one example, there are multiple examples and I have been pointing out in the past. Access to real-time "INFORMATION" and "KNOWLEDGE" is lacking on PDF. The threads opens on tweets or media news tend to take the direction of "how the media has perceived and puts forward that news".

Have you seen how media takes sides now ? This is media abusing the rights of freedom. Free speech doesn't warrant dictating news to public the way media wants. It means to let the public decide how they think of the news.

Coming back to information and knowledge. 99% of members do not have access to what is actually happening, why its happening like that and the story behind it. Its not their fault, unfortunately with matters involving military, there are perceptions and views, not knowledge and information.

Now for those who have access to both - knowledge and information, they can strike out the anomalies that media portrays, such as the example I have given already. You read all the 10 pages of the chat ? if you did, you would know that on the first page of the thread media presented a news, then members started dispersing views. After the first 3 pages it was clear, no one actually knows how matters proceed in this case. Now consider that you are on a forum or a group where there are military officials discussing this news, the posts will be quite different. Take another scenario, you have access to talk to the officials in intelligence circles who have dealt cases like these and take their views. Lastly, if you are lucky enough, you come across officials who have been part of this specific case. This last cadre will hold vast chunks of information what is really going on. Irony concludes to 99% of PDF residing in the first domain, including yourself. No blames here, just reality.

If you have certain views, lets say what happened in the 50's or 60's or even 80's or 2010's, and you use those to conclude that PMA is to be blamed. And then lets say that I have certain other level of information, which changes my views as to what could be done, what couldn't be done and what needs to be done, then you and I are coming from very different scenarios and us meeting at a single point to agree on something is rare. Your views will seem meagre to me, like you possess just 1% of information, how can I add to that to make you look at a bigger picture.

When I bring you to the next step of a bigger picture, then I have to lay out more information. As I have done so, in the past, fingers start getting raised. This is where another dilemma comes. Are you the right person to judge and conclude the policy of Military based on the 5% or the 10% information i provided, since remember you already based your opinion on just 1% of information.

Secondly, I can see from your post that you want to reach CONCLUSIONs, you want to point fingers at something and put blame on that, be it institution like PMA, a policy like curriculum of PMA or a position like rank of a General. Is that the right approach ? I don't know. Do you want me to take the same approach ? I certainly will not.

This is not the end of the Pakistan or the world or the news or the circumstances. Military keeps improvising and it takes certain decisions based on various factors, basically its evolving. It has stepped backed from dictatorships and it portrays itself as neutral in politics, which means certain steps have been taken. Whether you want to believe that or not is entirely up to you, but what you believe doesn't matter to Military, its a hard pill to swallow.

Reaching a conclusion and basing posts and arguments on that conclusion tends to direct the manner of posting on PDF. A conclusion cannot be reached and I have explained above why it cannot.

For the sake of argument or the decorum of the forum I might step back and let you win the day, but knowing that reality is quite different and things that occur on negotiation tables or phone calls or the SOPs are adhered to or not, my views will not change instead I will start pondering whether its worth sharing or will it just draw criticism which it has done in the past so let them delve in their fair world of fantasy and move on.

 

[Jango]

Aisi hi tasweer agr Musharraf ki ayi hoti to aaj mulk main yeh halat na hotay.

 

[salarsikander]

which means certain steps have been taken. Whether you want to believe that or not is entirely up to you, but what you believe doesn't matter to Military, its a hard pill to swallow.

I understand, with each passing day it becomes increasingly not hard, but rather impossible to defend them, and its the dilemma that every Military lover or someone who is directly connected to the military faces. The Jenga tower has to fall over its own weight someday.
Yes, that is true that Khaki Mafia doesn't give a damn and will continue to do business as usual as it has in the past without suffering any consequences ( ignoring the episodes of directly insulting and humiliating the Father of the nation's Sister, and a lover of whores whose inaction and neutrality led to a direct break up of country ) there are more than thousand such examples that I can quote here, But then again it will be a futile attempt as the Khaki grp from inside promotes people with extremely limited mental ability when it comes to leadership, the draconian ACR method will continue to promote incompetent losers in the TOP with which not only an institution but the whole country will suffer from rotting and as usual its well wisher ( who have direct benefits) will just use Strawman fallacy and completely ignore the lessons that need to be learned from the past

This is not the end of the Pakistan or the world or the news or the circumstances

Certainly, it wasn't the end of the world for Khakis Shadows, when Pakistan as we knew it ceased to exist after the Breakup in 1971. Or when an innocent Civilian of Stature of Father of Nations sister is brutally humiliated by self proclaimed so-called Field Marshal. It seems there is no end to how low they can stoop and each one tries his best to really set the benchmark every single time

If you have certain views, lets say what happened in the 50's or 60's or even 80's or 2010's, and you use those to conclude that PMA is to be blamed

Well certainly, when one breaks OATH and claims or speaks so highly of honor, sounds too much of a hypocrite that talks about honor and yet fails to keep an oath. so yeah there is nothing that could change that other than whitewashing which we know khaki has learnt very good overt the number of decades. Nothing has changed

 

[salarsikander]

Is that the right approach ? I don't know. Do you want me to take the same approach ? I certainly will not.

That why It is said, its is very hard to speak the truth and equally hard if not less to differentiate between what is right and wrong and say that.

 

[Mustang125]

Imagine serving your country and institution for 4 decades getting promoted to a rank that 0.00001 percent of the population attains all to being thrown behind bars. SMH.

 

[Pakstallion]

So you want them to interfere, but only in the direction that you prefer? That is not how things work.

Well interfere they did. U can have interference like combined COVId managment, economy managment, locust managment, India management, Afghan managment FATF during IK times with combined efforts which led to world best results. Exponential exports growth and IT. Growth, without US funds.

Or they can combine with PDM and produce default, worst inflation in the history of Pakistan (that’s saying a lot), destruction of exports, hatred from the masses, India running roughshod killing Kashmir Mujahadeen in Pakistan.

The few Pak Generals responsible for the latter deserve to be hung and made an example of. They pushed our economy back 5 years.

 

[VCheng]

Well interfere they did. U can have interference like combined COVId managment, economy managment, locust managment, India management, Afghan managment FATF during IK times with combined efforts which led to world best results. Exponential exports growth and IT. Growth, without US funds.

Or they can combine with PDM and produce default, worst inflation in the history of Pakistan (that’s saying a lot), destruction of exports, hatred from the masses, India running roughshod killing Kashmir Mujahadeen in Pakistan.

The few Pak Generals responsible for the latter deserve to be hung and made an example of. They pushed our economy back 5 years.

That looks more like a personal opinion than anything tangibly proven.

 

[Pakstallion]

That looks more like a personal opinion than anything tangibly proven.

The interference? Tonnes of circumstantial evidence. My other claims of exponential growth, highest inflation etc, happy to share sources for it.

 

[AZMwi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631006088437923864

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Is Pakistan Army top command under control of Indian army, looks as though, they are doing everything to give a bad reputation to the army itself, so this is beyond normal and sensible.

Yes Sharif mafia can be bought to work for India and US too.

This is alarming and with long-term repurcussions.

As if their minds are turned upside down, hatred and vendetta can actually do this.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Wt a disgrace this whole fiasco is.....when u take decision under the influence then honest
ppl suffer

 

[Signalian]

I understand, with each passing day it becomes increasingly not hard, but rather impossible to defend them, and its the dilemma that every Military lover or someone who is directly connected to the military faces. The Jenga tower has to fall over its own weight someday.
Yes, that is true that Khaki Mafia doesn't give a damn and will continue to do business as usual as it has in the past without suffering any consequences ( ignoring the episodes of directly insulting and humiliating the Father of the nation's Sister, and a lover of whores whose inaction and neutrality led to a direct break up of country ) there are more than thousand such examples that I can quote here, But then again it will be a futile attempt as the Khaki grp from inside promotes people with extremely limited mental ability when it comes to leadership, the draconian ACR method will continue to promote incompetent losers in the TOP with which not only an institution but the whole country will suffer from rotting and as usual its well wisher ( who have direct benefits) will just use Strawman fallacy and completely ignore the lessons that need to be learned from the past


Certainly, it wasn't the end of the world for Khakis Shadows, when Pakistan as we knew it ceased to exist after the Breakup in 1971. Or when an innocent Civilian of Stature of Father of Nations sister is brutally humiliated by self proclaimed so-called Field Marshal. It seems there is no end to how low they can stoop and each one tries his best to really set the benchmark every single time


Well certainly, when one breaks OATH and claims or speaks so highly of honor, sounds too much of a hypocrite that talks about honor and yet fails to keep an oath. so yeah there is nothing that could change that other than whitewashing which we know khaki has learnt very good overt the number of decades. Nothing has changed

That why It is said, its is very hard to speak the truth and equally hard if not less to differentiate between what is right and wrong and say that.

Your posts are a classic example of "information" and "knowledge" missing from posts of members.

Since you mentioned PMA and its curriculum, of which you have no idea seeing from your post, there has been a major change in curriculum and training in School of Infantry and Tactics, Quetta in relation to COIN war. I will discuss this in another related thread.

I started replying in this thread since you tagged me and as I read first few pages of thread I figured that its another thread where views are made up without backing of any information or knowledge, just a general perception that flows in PDF. However, this will be my last reply since I conclusively disagree with your views which I find are based on nothing, not information or knowledge at least.

 

[salarsikander]

there has been a major change in curriculum and training in School of Infantry and Tactics, Quetta in relation to COIN war. I will discuss this in another related thread

professionally there has been a change, what I am more concerned is about the OATH part, the meddling in politics.
It seems Strawman fallacy has failed to work, lol ok

 

[Goenitz]

ضمانت نہیں، مقدمہ ھی خارج کرا کرلر جا رھا ھوں- پاکستان زند باد- ھم سب اس پر قربان- الحمد للہ-

Mian Ali Ashfaq​