Losing interest in Indus civilization

[Indus Pakistan]

Haha IVC was abondened due to natural calamities and people migrated to ganges basin.

Oh yes. They all packed their bags, every man, woman and child including the beasts and went to the Ganga. How so freakin convenient. What next. All of Mesopotamia also legged it to Ganga?

Delusions at its best. All the best with it.

Every time I go to Pakistan I walk on history. I walk where our ancestors are buried. If the land could speak, wow would it have a story to tell. All over Pakistan are littered the relics and achievements of our great ancestors.

Now tell me Ganga, how does it feel to walk over land that produced nothing but junglees? How does it feel to look across to other lands to gain any heritage because your ancestors did not have any? Pretending and imagining something that you have nothing to do is delusion. Where exactly are you from in Ganga?


Now tell me

 

[django]

Thanks. Consider this as a "fly by" - I could just not resist from firing a burst at the Ganga's. I got to keep the Ganga's tickled.

This adage 'Ganga' I have given to - well you know who has a thought out reason. If you look at map of South Asia two major rivers stare out at you. They are Indus on the west with it's green strip of irrigated land Ganga Basin in the east.

The differance between the two is stark. The Indus Basin essentialy is extention of the Middle East dry climate and is marked as semi-arid or aride desert. Only the mighty Indus provides us the water for irrigation otherwise it would be belly up for Pakistan. Therefore Indus Basin defines Pakistan and did so to our ancestors.

Ganga on the other hand is wet, damp and was tropical jungles until not long ago with monkeys, elephants and homo sapiens of cetain variety hanging off the trees. They contributed to no civilization whatsoever. Vast majority of Indian's are part or full descendants of these and thus my preferance for the term 'Ganga'. It captures the essence of what India is and Pakistan is NOT. We are NOT a Ganga people or culture. Not one inch of our land comes anywhere near the Ganga. For me the term Ganga sums up India as opposed to Indus Pakistan. That is why I suggest people here pick up that term please. When I do back here I expect 'Ganga' to be used more frequently.

Look at the physical map of South Asia. You can clearly see Indus Basin seprarated from India by the desert. Ganga Basin which has over 700 million Indians living within it and of course the Dravid India with another 400 million. Only Indian Punjab falls within the geography of Pakistan.

Indian writers know this that is why they will do anything to hyphenate Indus with Ganga in a desperate attempt to leech or suck off Indus - because as we know that is the cradle of civilization in our part of the world. Thus they come up with Indo-Ganga basin when that is incorrect. The two are entirely distinct regions with distinct climates. We must do eveything to link (rightly) Ganga/Hindu > India. Conversely Indus/Muslim > Pakistan. Ganga discharges flows toward and discharges into the Bay of Bengal whereas Indus flows toward and discharges into Arabian Sea.

Even outsiders are slowly realizing this - that geography of the Indus is what underpins Pakistan. Take the time to read this article by Robert Kaplan please.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/06/18/whats-wrong-with-pakistan/
http://www.geocurrents.info/geonote...atic-theory-of-pakistans-geographical-destiny


@Sinopakfriend

Welcome back bro, forget them claiming the IVC, the latest craze amongst RRS charaltans is too claim the Aztecs, Mayans, Sumerians, even the lost city of Atlantis were founded by Indians (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) due to them following nature or Sanatan dharam and supposedly the use of totem poles etc heheheheheheheeeeee

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Where the hell was your Ganga dump during IVC times? It did not even make a mark on history. Our land on the other is cradle of civilization. Don't ever forget that.

I know. We gave you language. We gave you culture. We even gave you the makings of a religion. Now it would be nice if you could thank us.

Where were we...

Firslty, many thanks for sharing the article...

Apart from accepting the obvious fact of Pak being a natural and ancient state... the writer is just spitting out the standard lines of weak central authority, failed state nonesense and the rest of negative narrative that we have heard for decades.. all part of paid for narrative building exercise from certain quarters...

Yet here is Pak standing tall and thriving... with all the possible problems and endemic corruption that goes with it.

I find the article to be vulgar and superficial really. No intellectual innovation at all.


Indus Valley Civilisation emerged as a composite... however, the Pak State has far older Civilisational roots... it is one of the key areas of human development.

Centre of South West Asian Civilisation Circle if you will...which extended its reach through conquest all the way to ganges...

Now let us take out humans out of the landscape and look at the lay of the Pak Lands....

in all its various geographies the conditions are perfectly aligned to sustain a civilisation jump... yes, the core is the fertile plains and valleys all the way up North... yet somehow they all fit seemlessly to form a platform to jump start and sustain a unique Civlisation which has the capacity to absorb and morph all external and internal influences into its unique features...till TODAY.

Kashmir is a Civlisational corner stone for Pak State... it has nothing to do with religion at all.... just look at the faces of indians of ganges and those of Kashmiris...

besides Kashmir has been one of the nods, feeding element if you wish, which brought to the world a very comprehensive system of belief and societal organisation... (indians still worship ancient Kashmirs as their lords/gods.)

This system of belief was one of the instruements that propelled your ancestors to conquer the ganges plains...

The sad truth is this system also brought with it classification of humans (caste system) as separating/defensive mechanism... just like the Brits did when the conquered the sub-continent. Ruling elite built the firewalls...

If we move a few thousands years forward... the animist and shamanic belief systems of the conquered ganages populus found there way to the original System and we arrive at current animism in india... cow, monkey, elephant, snake ect. worship that is.

I do believe that there is a meta-material geometery which directs the cycles...yes, it is very determistic.

Pak stands at the verge of Civlisational Revival...this process is slow, subtle and often times appears counter intuitive... yet it is the global shift which is acting upon different regions...

You may even call it reluctant/accidental Revival of Pak State as one of History's Actor i.e. China is on the move on global scale and you happen to be one of critical part of the grand plan.

Pak always has been and shall be deciding factor in the rise and fall world orders... yet it is also unescapbale for Pak not be a great South West Asian Regional Power of global consquence.

Throughout history indians behave when they have a strong hand to guide them...otherwise, the horde mentality takes better of them...as collective...barring some brilliant individuals.

However there are many indias in the artifical construct of this illegitmate ganges empire...this can never be sustained since there is no 'geography' for it.

If one only uses Indus Lands vs. ganges plains as framework and take out this hindu-muslim nonsense then things become crystal clear. Kashmir becomes far more logical and unsparable from Indus...

Just as a sidebar... your Gandara is but one example of your Civilisation capacity..
The buddha statue in your museum was built by your ancestors... just look at that statue and the medival artworks of indians... if just look at these two works of art all become apparent.

Yes, it is rather long monolouge! Sorry...

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Gandara

My family are from the Gandhara region of Pakistan. Honestly for most of my life I was unaware about it's central role in the history of Central/South Asia and it's ancient connections through the Silk Road to China whence the Buddhism travelled to China. Over time as I read more and more I became a avid fan of history. Of course I am a muslim but at a personal level it gives me deep satisfaction that my ancestors played such a central role in history. When I get time I will be finishing of a thread on this.

The problem is we have 1.3 billion with no history crying to claim some sort of legiitimacy because they don't have anything in the Ganga so they use all manner of subterfuge to claim what lies under our soil and which was product of our ancestors effort and intelligence.

 

[Azadkashmir]

The Swastika Its use in India dates back to the Indus Valley Civilization city of Harappa.

 

[Paragkhadse259]

Listen Gangoo, I don't have time right now. But rest assured your Ganga and your Dravid brothers have nothing and I mean nothing to show in history. You are the waste products of a swamp. Your country is nothing - the only land in South Asia that is worth anything is Pakistan. You can dream all you like about our ancestors and our land. But that won't change the facts.

Look at it this way. I don't and I mean this. I don't want to have anything to do with your people or your land. I detest your land and everything about it. Honestly. Indeed I wish we were on the other side of the globe. All I want my people to do is look down at our "Pak sarzmeen" and own everything about it and take pride in our ancestors.

You on the other hand don't have sufficient pride in your Ganga. It is you who insists in claiming our land. That tells me everything. It means your Ganga is worthless and nothing so were your ancestors. If indeed that not the case you would not be sitting in Bhopal and dreaming of Bahwalpur, or sitting in Madurai and claiming on Multan. The fact that you insist on placing your grubby little fingers on our land tells me everything.

But don't forget. A Ganga is a Ganga is a Holy Ganga. Now live with it. Enough time wasted on you. I have work to do.

Lol [emoji13] [emoji13] [emoji13]

So this is how you refute to logics and evidences.

Your message had nothing logical in it but was really entertaining one.

It showed what kind of study and depth of knowledge you have.

People claiming to be real owner of IVT because they have the lands which once was place where this civilisation flourished & without having essence of that great civilisation in their life style are like some Hindu RSS loosers from Agra City standing before Taj Mahal and saying it was his forefathers who built Taj Mahal because he is from the land where Taj Mahal stands now.

For your info IVT in its prime was spread in many parts of ancient india.

Historically lost IVT was discovered by british during railway track construction in region between Lahore and Karachi. It was named Indus Civilization by britishers in intial stages.

The IVT civilisation sites are found in india Afghanistan and ofcourse Pakistan.

And to rub salt on your misery is biggest Harrapan Site is recently found in Rakhigarh Haryana. Even Pakistani archeology department has confirmed it.

Now go home and keep ranting and cursing Indians , Ganga and whatever you like , sleep then wake up and repeat.

Truth doesn't change by Tears and weeping by crybabies

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

My family are from the Gandhara region of Pakistan. Honestly for most of my life I was unaware about it's central role in the history of Central/South Asia and it's ancient connections through the Silk Road to China whence the Buddhism travelled to China. Over time as I read more and more I became a avid fan of history. Of course I am a muslim but at a personal level it gives me deep satisfaction that my ancestors played such a central role in history. When I get time I will be finishing of a thread on this.

The problem is we have 1.3 billion with no history crying to claim some sort of legiitimacy because they don't have anything in the Ganga so they use all manner of subterfuge to claim what lies under our soil and which was product of our ancestors effort and intelligence.

Ah my very dear friend, they even stole your Taxilla native Chankaya as theirs... talk about daytime robbery.

Time to claim what is yours, without shame or remorse... DNA is DNA...religion is religion.

You have fine evening.

 

[Paragkhadse259]

Duplicate post

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Sinopakfriend @django
What they do is grab hold intangible concepts like culture and vacous definitives like Hinduism - a term of recent vintage which even Supreme Court of India failed to describe. Then these intangibles are retro-fitted to 5,000 years. It's like "hey there were Hindus in Harrapa" because they inhaled air and walked on two legs. Oh we know they were Hindus because of their culture and yes the swastika (never mind that it's been found in Urals andv even further West). You can't even define culture today as it is complrex matrix like air but these Gangadesis can figure out that 5,000 years ago it was their culture.

The clever part is they walk away with a smile - even if you kick their teeth out. Reason is by being just embroiled with us their name gets linked with our heritage. It's like in boxing every wannabe wants to fight the champ. Not because they will win but because just fighting the champ elevates their status in the sense that it shows they must be something to have fought the champ.

So when they jump in and start claming IVC in actual fact they have already gained by associating themselves with something they have nothing to do with. Anyway Sino and Django I have to go now before I get drawn too much into this. Take care guys until next time. Spread the good message.

Here for you guy's. History stamped on our land

 

[Lotus_stalk]

An arbitration tribunal of the World Bank's International Center for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID) has ruled against the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in relation to the unlawful denial of a mining lease for the Reko Diq project in 2011, Chilean mining company Antofagasta plc announced on Tuesday.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1321955/w...les-against-pakistan-in-reko-diq-project-case
fine will approx 1 Billion dollars, = 4000 PKR on every family Approx

 

[Paragkhadse259]

Could you define Hinduism??????? Is it the worship of diverse idols, example if one believes in a pink honey monster as an idol, can that individual be charachterised as Hindu???? BTW could you provide tangible evidence for the Saraswati, where is it, did such a behemoth just vanish into thin air, isnt it taking "evaporation" to the extreme heheheheheheheheheehe

Ofcourse i can define hinduism also islam and christainity and judaism but its out of scope of this discussion and it will be better to stay on topic.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Archaeology and Museum Department and the Cultural Bureau of Shanxi province of China signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to establish four museums, protect and preserve archaeological and heritage sites in different areas of the province.

The signing ceremony was held at Conference Room of the Tourism Corporation Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

Director Archaeology Dr Abdul Samad and a member of China delegation signed the MoU.
Under the MoU, the museums, archaeological and heritage sites would be preserved and renovated while four museums would be established in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

The Chinese delegation said that an educational institution would be established at the University of Peshawar to start Chinese language course and create awareness about the culture of China to people of this part of the world.

China would establish four international standard museums in the province having libraries and other modern facilities.

 

[django]

Ah my very dear friend, they even stole your Taxilla native Chankaya as theirs... talk about daytime robbery.

It seems shame is something that is completely and utterly alien to them, the lengths they go to to steal somebody else's heritage is truly preposterous.Kudos

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Sinopakfriend @django I recommend this book. Anybody reading this will walk away impressed with Gandhara, Pakistan.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ese government funding museums in kpk&f=false

 

[django]

Ofcourse i can define hinduism also islam and christainity and judaism but its out of scope of this discussion and it will be better to stay on topic.

Well my dear chap I suppose you have one-upped Nehru and the supreme court of H!ndia hehehehehehehee, and just one further clarification i swear i have debated RRS types who claim, Troy, Atlantis, Native Indian, Mayan,, Sumerians etc were all product of Ganga Sanatan dharam, do you share this belief ??? and they also claim genetic testing is bogus as Tamils and Kashmiris are gentically one and the same , not even an iota of difference between them, they are as similar to each other as a dane is to a german , they also claim south asia has had no foreign genetic input in the last 60,000 years, do you share these views????? I am just curious