Losing interest in Indus civilization

[Bharat Muslim]

I feel nothing good will come from clinging to IVC .
Learn the lessons from IVC and move forward .

Unh??!!! Is there anything to learn from IVC? I am scratching my head.

Losing interest in Indus civilization

Many Indians are interested in Indus civilization because they associate their country's science & engineering talent with this civilization. They think their country is making strides in science & technology because of the heritage of Indus civilization.

But if the same Indians come to know of the dark truth about India's science & technology, the interest in Indus civilization would fizzle out instantly. Many of India's successes and failures are hidden in mystery and things actually may not be as they appear. When I pondered over the real technological capability of India, I instantly felt like giving the Indus valley civilization discussion a complete miss. In light of these revelations, even if Indus civilization indeed belongs to India, I wouldn't give two hoots.

There are strong reasons to believe that India's civilian space programs and military R&D projects may be non-indigenous or even fake. Indian technology doesn't seem to be about innovation/ingenuity. It is probably about purchasing and managing. The list of misleading red herrings is long. For instance, if India's Mars and Lunar missions are real, why is it unable to invent engines for it's military plane even after so many decades of trying? If Indian space missions are real, why are Indian programmers/coders so notoriously incompetent? Why is India harassed by a tiny country of Pakistan? Please don't cite Western awards and other significant 'recognition' of Indian science & technology. West has it's own agenda and their hyped certificates often don't indicate real merit.

The question is why do Indians do it? Why would Indians fabricate a facade about their science & technology prowess? I can think of two answers: One, to deter nuclear attacks by creating a camouflage of great strength. Two, to make money by siphoning R&D funds. The point they want to convey is: "Since we are capable of making civilian rockets, we are also capable of making effective and functioning nukes. So beware and refrain from using your nukes."

@shrivatsa

 

[Mugwop]

We don't have that dogma to dissociate ourselves from IVC for the beef... Pls apply the same logic to predecessor human race which used to hunt & kill in jungles for survival....
For how long you will keep peddling the lies of Aryans invaders...

Pakistanis believe Aryans migrated to IVC while the British believe they were invaders. indians believe IVC and the world is their territory and non hindus are sub humans.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@NakedLunch

Is this @Joe Shearer guy's English is of too high a level for me to understand or did he misinterpret my post and started irrelevant rambling?

It has to be irrelevant rambling. It couldn't possibly be the first option.

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

Unh??!!! Is there anything to learn from IVC? I am scratching my head.


@shrivatsa

Never let migrants over run you . To have strong army and weapons and be prepared . Too much pacifism and unprepared Ness will be ones downfall . Climate change erased whole civilization , such an event now will cause extinction of Indians .

 

[Vishvamitra]

My family are from the Gandhara region of Pakistan. Honestly for most of my life I was unaware about it's central role in the history of Central/South Asia and it's ancient connections through the Silk Road to China whence the Buddhism travelled to China. Over time as I read more and more I became a avid fan of history. Of course I am a muslim but at a personal level it gives me deep satisfaction that my ancestors played such a central role in history. When I get time I will be finishing of a thread on this.

The problem is we have 1.3 billion with no history crying to claim some sort of legiitimacy because they don't have anything in the Ganga so they use all manner of subterfuge to claim what lies under our soil and which was product of our ancestors effort and intelligence.

wait a Minute, First you say that 1.3 billion people have no history and civilization

and than you are proud of this face that your ancestors played huge part in rise of Buddhist (product of 1.3 billion people)Teaching in China.

Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Archaeology and Museum Department and the Cultural Bureau of Shanxi province of China signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to establish four museums, protect and preserve archaeological and heritage sites in different areas of the province.

The signing ceremony was held at Conference Room of the Tourism Corporation Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

Director Archaeology Dr Abdul Samad and a member of China delegation signed the MoU.
Under the MoU, the museums, archaeological and heritage sites would be preserved and renovated while four museums would be established in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

The Chinese delegation said that an educational institution would be established at the University of Peshawar to start Chinese language course and create awareness about the culture of China to people of this part of the world.

China would establish four international standard museums in the province having libraries and other modern facilities.

see, again you are proud that your Ancestors worshiped a Ganga Indian and made statue of him for 1000s of years.

 

[Joe Shearer]

wait a Minute, First you say that 1.3 billion people have no history and civilization

and than you are proud of this face that your ancestors played huge part in rise of Buddhist (product of 1.3 billion people)Teaching in China.



see, again you are proud that your Ancestors worshiped a Ganga Indian and made statue of him for 1000s of years.

Accept him as a very bright and intellectually well-endowed individual, who has difficult experiences with Indians. That makes him build these fantasies with himself as John Carter, Warlord of Mars, dropped into an alien world (along with a few hundred million others) which their ancestors had created many generations ago and forgotten completely.

Blame Edgar Rice Burroughs.

 

[Whirling_dervesh]

Empires like Satvahanas empire, Maurya empire, Ashoka's empire existed long before Bristish came to India.

British started trading company in West Bengal with name EAST INDIA company. Which itself explains everything.

Indian based rulers that ruled over the area that is now pakistan constituted a mere 200-300 years out of a recorded 5000 year history. Negligible really. Ganges based civilisations were great in their own right but confined to their geographical boundaries. Let's keep it that way and not to attempt to hijack each others history

 

[haviZsultan]

I am a nationalist Pakistani so I hope this doesn't hurt. But I think the problem with both India and Pakistan is that we aren't keen to share our history and each, Muslim and Hindu wants to claim everything as his own history. These historical links transcend religion in my eyes. Clearly as muslims we feel we have a large share of the history as muslims rule the region. Hindus have similar views about the Pala, Vijaynagara and Chola nations or other hindu dynasties like the Marathas.

However there are a lot of factors like geography, demographics, ethnicity of the population, present sentiment that also plays a role. The land as we know it has been ruled by different dynasties. Some muslim, some hindu. We should accept this and call it our common history. The Hindu kingdoms that ruled parts that are now Pakistan should be counted as equal segments of our history, common history. It belongs to both india and Pakistan. Its no use claiming ourselves superior by competing about our past. It is our common history and we don't need to squabble over it. Whats the problem if India claims the Mughals, true muslims ruled but Hindu subjects had rights and were treated well. That is the essence of Islamic secularism.

 

[Gujarat]

Politics Aside, we (Gujaratis) are very Proud of our IVC roots as well, it's good to know that our ancestors created Lothal, Dwarika and Doravira in Gujarat, Rakhigiri in Haryana, Harrapa in Punjab and Mohan-jo-dero in Sindh.

it's our Shared History and we all should be proud of IVC Roots.

@farhan_9909 @Joe Shearer

 

[Joe Shearer]

Mistake tagging me. You, and other claimants, would not like my answers. [emoji39]

 

[Gujarat]

Mistake tagging me. You, and other claimants, would not like my answers. [emoji39]

Why not ? I am open to all arguments after seeing that even africans claims Harrapa civilization.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Pakistanis believe Aryans migrated to IVC while the British believe they were invaders. indians believe IVC and the world is their territory and non hindus are sub humans.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why not ? I am open to all arguments after seeing that even africans claims Harrapa civilization.

There are two parts to such claims, properly speaking.

First, the claims of those cultural and genetic descendants of the original inhabitants of the culture. Such a claim does not exist, either on the ground around the original sites, or in proximate parts of the country. The key is that the culture never gave rise to a succeeding culture. Instead, it died out completely, and was lost to mankind for centuries.

Genetic connections being sought are fatuous.

So, too, the claims of those determined to claim the lost culture as their own, on the remarkably tenuous grounds that the language spoken earlier before the introduction of the currently dominant Indo-Aryan family was perhaps Dravidian.

[emoji38]

 

[el 3mir]

Indus Valley Civilization

Achaemenid Empire

Umayyad Empire

Durrani Empire

British Empire

Pakistan and india don't have common history. It's a fact!!

 

[padamchen]

Indus Valley Civilization

Achaemenid Empire

Umayyad Empire

Durrani Empire

British Empire

Pakistan and india don't have common history. It's a fact!!

Empires are military and political constructs, forged and kept together by lance and sword.

Civilizations are what happens at the level of the people.