Long March: China’s fifth-generation fighter is years away

[gambit]

You may not agree with Dr. Kopp but that does not make the points less valid. These writers do not seem to understand the basic difference between components and systems nor do they seem to understand what physical infrastructure is needed to make an airplane and why it is a joke to think that Japan could make an airplane independently (remember the ShinShin?) and China can't.

Same for those who are not as fawning towards China. And am willing to stand by the faith that they understand the differences between systems and components than you boys do. I certainly have demonstrated that understanding and I left the avionics industry a long time ago.

---------- Post added at 11:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 PM ----------

"viet-commie" IQ rating;

Which is higher than of you boys'.

 

[doctor_who]

its just plain funny when some fan boyfrom china go overboard with statent like - better than f-22 , better than f-35.

even indian fan boys go pak-fa its better than - american.

do they have any idea when - america did the first taxi trial of f-22 ????

now the f-22 is flying and like any other fighter - a fifth gen is also in continous development phase.

so f-22 by every passing year is getting an year ahead- if f-22 was developed 20 yrs back it doesnt mean - its frozen to same time period.

and imagine by next 10 years what american will be doing ith their f-22.

- but still its a great achievement by china to develop or at least under development fifth gen fighter.

and remember - they came first in the race, and how many people really remember who was second - in 50 mtr behind phelps ?

 

[SomeGuy]

flightglobal is not a mickey mouse site for defence information but is a highley regarded source. Although early to judge the J-20 it is intresting what defence experts make of the pic's:

Teal Group analyst Richard Aboulafia is also dubious about the new aircraft. "I'm less sure that it's even much of an impressive airframe," he says. "There are two rather large canards. I'm not sure that can be reconciled with a low-observable design. It looks like something that might have been designed in 1985."

Does he not realise how ironic his own last statement is because the F-22 was also designed in the late 80's.

 

[below_freezing]

Same for those who are not as fawning towards China. And am willing to stand by the faith that they understand the differences between systems and components than you boys do. I certainly have demonstrated that understanding and I left the avionics industry a long time ago.

---------- Post added at 11:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 PM ----------


Which is higher than of you boys'.

they obviously don't understand that using imported does not affect the plane while it's actually in the sky for short, defensive missions. the low lifetime of the domestic engine also doesn't matter for short wars, and world wars are unlikely to break out before a longer lifetime domestic engine is ready.

wind tunnel number and highest speed is a good indication of aircraft design ability. China has the highest number of wind tunnels in Asia and furthermore has the only Mach 25 wind tunnel in the Eastern Hemisphere (FD-22 Hypervelocity, Longshot Free Piston-Gun Wind Tunnel at Beijing Institute of Aerodynamics). Only Japan has comparable high mach facilities, but they max out at Mach 20. South Korea is a joke, with only subsonic facilities. Especially important however is the number of supersonic tunnels, as supersonic is the speed of ordinary fighter planes, whereas hypersonic is the speed of missiles. As you can see China's supersonic wind tunnels outnumber the rest of Asia's combined. In addition, we have the fastest supercomputer in the world for CFD studies. There is no question that we have some of the best physical infrastructure in Asia for developing new aircraft.

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/pdf-files/Eastern_Hemisphere_Wind_Tunnels.pdf

 

[SomeGuy]

10 years is not so bad considering we all thought Chinese military is a good 50 years behind the US's, before... Now what its 10?

10 years is a pretty fair timeline, China has a good direction but is still miles away from even a final prototype. With even Russia putting out a 2016-2017 final date on its 5th generation thrust, China can easily look at 2020+. It still has a long way to go in many departments, but yet China will surely be the 3rd nation to develop a 5th generation aircraft.

I'm more inclined to believe the deputy commander of the PLAAF when he says that J-XX will enter service between 2017-2019 rather than some analyst whose opinions are based on hearsay, rumors, and assumptions.

Remember, the same PLAAF guy also went on record to say that a prototype would be made before the end of 2010 - and we all know how that prediction turned out.

 

[cloneman]

WS-15,WS-15,WS-15!!!Never forgot,the WS-15 is the key point of the whole Jxx project.

 

[gambit]

they obviously don't understand that using imported does not affect the plane while it's actually in the sky for short, defensive missions. the low lifetime of the domestic engine also doesn't matter for short wars, and world wars are unlikely to break out before a longer lifetime domestic engine is ready.

I believe the PLA's leadership is nowhere as shortsighted as you are. Quality hardware ensures readiness in peacetime and that translate to war fighting capabilities. Ever heard of the admonition to train as you would fight? Short lifespan for the engines will cost in the long run in both readiness and replacements.

wind tunnel number and highest speed is a good indication of aircraft design ability. China has the highest number of wind tunnels in Asia and furthermore has the only Mach 25 wind tunnel in the Eastern Hemisphere (FD-22 Hypervelocity, Longshot Free Piston-Gun Wind Tunnel at Beijing Institute of Aerodynamics). Only Japan has comparable high mach facilities, but they max out at Mach 20. South Korea is a joke, with only subsonic facilities. Especially important however is the number of supersonic tunnels, as supersonic is the speed of ordinary fighter planes, whereas hypersonic is the speed of missiles. As you can see China's supersonic wind tunnels outnumber the rest of Asia's combined. In addition, we have the fastest supercomputer in the world for CFD studies. There is no question that we have some of the best physical infrastructure in Asia for developing new aircraft.

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/pdf-files/Eastern_Hemisphere_Wind_Tunnels.pdf

Nonsense. That is like saying North Korea's highway system means the North Koreans can field an F1 racer at the next Monaco meet. That is like saying having $50,000 worth of Snap-On tools in my garage make me a master mechanic.

 

[Srinivas]

India can make LCA but china cannot make J20..
Ha what a logic!

China appears to have multiple fifth generation fighter/bomber programs and Yes China can develop fifth generation fighter with the technologies imported,bought and copied from russia and US.
I forgot one way that is stealing bits and peaces of fighter program secrets of other countries using espionage and cyber attacks

India on the other hand is collaborating with other countries for its fighter programme.
Who knows may be India has its own version of B2 stealth bomber along with AMCA and MCA.

 

[lcloo]

I am really amazed at your guys and those highly paid experts giving analysis as if you are the J-20 designers. Keep carry on, I just love to read all these drama.

 

[Conqueror]

Its rather good that the West finds China is behind and wouldn't be able to complete this program in at-least years to come. Previously it was reported that China would be able to procure 5th Gen by 2020.. then they decreed it to 2018 and now claim it is "years away".

The West and India has right to put their neck under the sand and pretend its not coming.

 

[mjnaushad]

Long March: China’s fifth-generation fighter is years away

Whats the big fuss..... Tell me one guy who claimed that it will serial production from next week.???

 

[krash]

China appears to have multiple fifth generation fighter/bomber programs and Yes China can develop fifth generation fighter with the technologies imported,bought and copied from russia and US.
I forgot one way that is stealing bits and peaces of fighter program secrets of other countries using espionage and cyber attacks

Yeah despicable! They should have kept beating the "indigenous" drum for a decade or two, kept failing, kept beating, kept failing and still kept beating. Then when they had successfully wasted a couple of decades they should have bought/imported all the major "stuff" for their plane from all over the world, painted it their own color and then called it....so appropriately... INDIGENOUS!

too bad the chinese are a bit to wise for that.........

Disclaimer: The preceding account is not based on any endeavor under taken by any country especially the LCA project of India......no seriously its not....

btw have you even seen the J-20? Do you know what it looks like let alone what it has underneath its bonnet? Or did your uncle tell you that J-20 is the product of bought, borrowed and stollen parts?

India on the other hand is collaborating with other countries for its fighter programme.

Where and why the hell did India come into the discussion???

Who knows may be India has its own version of B2 stealth bomber along with AMCA and MCA.

Errrrrrrrr..........................and inter galactic battle ships too no? its quite possible having the "success" of LCA under ones belt....

 

[wangwei11607]

dude

I observed sukhoi_30MKI remarks

His argument:

1. China's aircraft is copy and steal

2. India's aircraft is homebred or joint ventures in India "innovation"

3. India future stealth fighter stealth bombers XXXX (there will be stealth the merengues)?

Oh really interesting Indian ：）：）：）

 

[chengdusudise]

dude

I observed sukhoi_30MKI remarks

His argument:

1. China's aircraft is copy and steal

2. India's aircraft is homebred or joint ventures in India "innovation"

3. India future stealth fighter stealth bombers XXXX (there will be stealth the merengues)?

Oh really interesting Indian ：）：）：）

he is not a interesting indian, but a TYPICAL indian

 

[Speeder 2]

I am really amazed at your guys and those highly paid experts giving analysis as if you are the J-20 designers. Keep carry on, I just love to read all these drama.

It is fair to say that most "highly paid" Defence Analysts are utterly crap, precisely like their counterparts - "highly paid" Equity Analysts - in the stock markets. Most of these fortune tellers even can't get a grip on what's going on most of the time.

In case of this analyst and others like him, trashing J-20 equals to talking up F-35, as general logic so far out of all the known info indicates that J-20 would increasingly look like a potentially most proliferate serial killer of F-35s.

Without int'l clients to buy F-35, many guys like him would be "downsized" in order to recover the initial investments of the drastically overrun project.

So he managed to put up his "strong" face and start to ...