Lockheed Martin signs pact with Tata to make F-16 planes in India

[StraightShooter]

I don't think they have much to say, they couldn't offer any single engined fighters, because they simply don't have any. The worst thing they could do is sell some more weapons to Pakistan.

Both Su-35 and MIG-35 are on offer to Pakistan.

Well if they negotiated that FGFA deal i could see India scraping this deal.

FGFA deal is dead. Russia has offered PAK-FA and India is not interested in it.

If this is an actual agreement and not some MoUs... then it truly is transformative step in indian aerospace industry.

Brovados of some notwithstanding.. F16 Block70 will be a quantum leap for IAF capabilities.

From political, economic and military aspects... indians would pull off a coup with this one.

TATA is a solid industrial house.

This is neither an agreement nor an MOU. This is just two private entities exploring opportunities.

Vendor would not be selected at least 2021. Still long way to go.

There is high likelihood that India would go with Gripens as PAF knows F-16s like the back of the hand.

If Modi loses election in 2019 then there is high probability that this Single Engine deal would be cancelled altogether.

I wonder what Russia plays into this equation .

Russia is already pretty ticked off with India. Selection of F-16s by India would mean a permanent Russia-India divorce.

First of all it wont be manufacturing from scratch in India from first day. may be last 30 / 40 will be manufactured with say close to 70% domestic parts. they will be supplied in batches. first 50 fly away from US, then next 50 with CKD, then next batch with 30% indigenisation. only the last batch will have close to 70% domestic parts.

Secondly about Trump, lets say LM will supply F 16 at the rate of 30 per year, it will still take close to 8 years to complete the initial order of 200. Trump will have exhausted his tenure by then, if at all he gets elected the second time, and i highly doubt that.

There won't be any manufacturing in India. Only Final assembly would be done in India.

Lol at the Indians for making a old plane which we already have for decades. Have fun....

India would not be going for F-16s. Pakistan knows F-16s in and out. PAF has been flying these for over 3 decades. IAF would never be able to catch up with PAF.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

"if they win". That is the key. This agreement is meaningless if they don't win.

Gripen wins, Andani or Reliance will produce the Gripen E. Regardless, a private sector company will manage a aerospace defence ecosystem, challenging HAL monopoly in India.

Rumors are that SAAB is talking to Adanis.

 

[StraightShooter]

American, British, French, Russian, Swiss aircraft with IAF.....a logistical nightmare from an engineer's point of view but I guess they might have a system that works out for them...

There is no system here. Just a total failure of strategic planning and execution.

Gripen wins, Andani or Reliance will produce the Gripen E. Regardless, a private sector company will manage a aerospace defence ecosystem, challenging HAL monopoly in India.

Rumors are that SAAB is talking to Adanis.

No reliance. Only Adanis would be involved with Gripens.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Vendor would not be selected at least 2021. Still long way to go.

India won't even order these F-16's until 2021?

What on Earth is going on? Why is India so desperate to spend so many billions on a plane that Pakistan has already had for many decades?

 

[StraightShooter]

Smelling F16 block 70 deal with Trump on Modi's visit next week... 200 of these manufactured in India will be

Don't get your hopes high.

US would not sell F-16s unless and until India sign CISMOA & BECA agreements. The vendor for this deal would not be selected at least until 2021. At the most US would allow India to do the final assembly. There would not be any manufacturing in India. Remember India is dealing with nationalist President Trump whose pet theme is to create jobs in the US.

India won't even order these F-16's until 2021?

What on Earth is going on? Why is India so desperate to spend so many billions on a plane that Pakistan has already had for many decades?

Yes. That is correct. There are couple of reasons

1) RAFALEs induction will go until 2022-23. India cannot afford so many programs running in parallel. There is only so much capital budget available. Most of India's defense budget goes towards salaries and pensions

2) India needs to sign CISMOA and BECA agreements before US offers a deal on F-16s. The negotiations on these two agreements have not even started seriously

India is desperate due to impending two front war looming on the horizon but also very handicapped to expedite the procurement. India is in an unenviable situation.

 

[Hamza913]

The PAF needs to get new fighters, ASAP.

 

[Han Patriot]

India won't even order these F-16's until 2021?

What on Earth is going on? Why is India so desperate to spend so many billions on a plane that Pakistan has already had for many decades?

I don't understand, F-16 is not exactly state of the art, SU-30MKI is already in service, why so much diversity in aircraft type and that too from different countries. Rafale from France, SU from Russia, and now F-16 from US, looks like some Indian general wants to go holiday in different countries.

 

[Hephaestus]

Of course Sweden can.
Sweden can offer technology which India needs.
That includes knowledge in "How to run a fighter project".
Would India rather work with a company that knows how to design a fighter for 50 B$
or a company that knows how to design a fighter for 2 B$ by proper project decisions.

If the US and India want to work together, it does not need to be sealed by a fighter deal.
The cooperation is going to happen anyway.

I agree. Sweden could've have offered much much more. But, I think India this time is not just selecting an AC but also a relationship. Which does make me a tad disappointed. I was rooting for the Gripen. But, now it seems amply clear we are getting the F-16's.

 

[StraightShooter]

I don't understand, F-16 is not exactly state of the art, SU-30MKI is already in service, why so much diversity in aircraft type and that too from different countries. Rafale from France, SU from Russia, and now F-16 from US, looks like some Indian general wants to go holiday in different countries.

You don't get the point. For more than a decade now Chinese influence in Russia is more than that of India. During war time India would have tough time getting any support from Russia. More than 70% of Indian equipment is of Russia origin which means India would have to fight with 30% of its equipment. This would result in nothing but sure defeat for India and it would be worse than 1962. Hence India tried to go for RAFALEs but they turned out to be too expensive. Now India is looking for some cheaper options.

 

[Han Patriot]

You don't get the point. For more than a decade now Chinese influence in Russia is more than that of India. During war time India would have tough time getting any support from Russia. More than 70% of Indian equipment is of Russia origin which means India would have to fight with 30% of its equipment. This would result in nothing but sure defeat for India and it would be worse than 1962. Hence India tried to go for RAFALEs but they turned out to be too expensive. Now India is looking for some cheaper options.

With all due respect, just stick to LCA and improve it. Seriously, there is not going to be a war. No one is interested in invading and feeding a billion Indians, we just want South Tibet back and some portions of Kashmir.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

India won't even order these F-16's until 2021?

What on Earth is going on? Why is India so desperate to spend so many billions on a plane that Pakistan has already had for many decades?

1.) India has a predetermined sanctioned sqds strength. Migs are dropping off to retirement quickly. Gripen E or F16IN will join Tejas Marks to fill each dropped MIG bird by bird.

2.) This government is accelerating the participation of India's private sector into defence, which was pretty much barred from it since independence. India's private sector aspires to produce armor, helicopters, planes, etc, etc. This program is one of such programs that will involve a private sector integrator.

Foreign OEM will tie up with India's industrial players to produce fighter jets, ICVs, tanks, subs, LPDs, helicopters, etc, etc.

You'll hear more of this.

 

[StraightShooter]

With all due respect, just stick to LCA and improve it. Seriously, there is not going to be a war. No one is interested in invading and feeding a billion Indians, we just want South Tibet back and some portions of Kashmir.

Betting on LCA is like betting a 3 legged horse to win the race. Indians understand that China and Pakistan are going to do a joint attack on India to capture Kashmir and Arunachal. Hence this desperation from India to get some thing which is cheap and affordable in its hands before it is too late.

 

[kris]

Sounds fair enough for a good business case.

How does the planned cooperation with Russia plays in to this?

They are just treating this as nothing but a bargaining trick?

Russia till now had virtually free hand in Indian defence industry which could be a reason for their ' taken for granted ' attitude.

There are lapses by term to stick to contract obligations driving India into losing more money - very bad business I'm

Other nations also are no different, I agree.
But, at least it will diversify our source and reduce complete dependence, who knows in future this steps will help us build our own MIC

My personal suggestion for GOI ( if they are listening ), please run parallel Indian projects with other Indian companies like L&T rather than for only TOT jobs

Though off topic - is this deal a compensation for USA for not buying nuclear reactor???

 

[Han Patriot]

Russia till now had virtually free hand in Indian defence industry which could be a reason for their ' taken for granted ' attitude.

There are lapses by term to stick to contract obligations driving India into losing more money - very bad business I'm

Other nations also are no different, I agree.
But, at least it will diversify our source and reduce complete dependence, who knows in future this steps will help us build our own MIC

My personal suggestion for GOI ( if they are listening ), please run parallel Indian projects with other Indian companies like L&T rather than for only TOT jobs

Though off topic - is this deal a compensation for USA for not buying nuclear reactor???

Well at least now you realise the Russians had been taking India for a ride all along. How many TOT actually resulted into something.

Please do realize all American weapons come with restrictions and strings attached. i heard there are specific launch codes for F-16s. Example if US don't want India to attack country X, they can actually choose to immobilize the F-16S. That's what I heard from my Singaporean friends who had been training in F-16s as pilots.

 

[ghauri05]

just wanna know how superior this blk 70 is to blk 52s..purely in technical terms???
No trolling plz