Lockheed Martin offers F-16 Block 70, for India, from India, exported to the world

[salarsikander]

APEX

I am afraid could also elaborate on that ?

 

[The SC]

India opposing the sale of 8 F-16 block 52 to Pakistan, made the US think that India values the F-16 like some F-22 and they came running with offers!...
India still has to learn that by opposing American sales (big or small..see capitalism) it should make up for it! The same as Usrael does, when it opposed the sale of, the F-15 SE and F-35 to middle eastern countries, it placed an order for them.. the only difference is that Usrael is used by the US to give this impression and example to others but still US is paying for Usrael thus for the impression/example also..

 

[waz]

@Majet Raha you started this exchange.
@salarsikander you took it to another level.

Please both ignore each other.

Right I'm closing this thread. Many senior Indian members have rubbished this as hear say, and listed extensively the reasons why it will not happen, and that India is not interested.

 

[dadeechi]

Why Lockheed Martin's Bid to Build Lethal F-16 Fighters in India Could be a Game Changer

Danny Lam
August 12, 2016



The US Air Force and those of other NATO countries are phasing out F-16s much sooner than anticipated. This implies that performance of F-35s has met expectations, and that there are no obvious show-stoppers to ramping up production as fast as budgets allow. The F-15, F-16, and F/A-18 production lines are all slated to close by 2020. But there is more to this deal, as it has the potential to alter the balance of power in South and Southeast Asia over the next decade.

Lockheed-Martin’s “Made in India” deal, which offers exclusive rights to manufacture and produce ‘Block 70/72’ F-16s, implies that few—if any—orders are expected from NATO countries. India will have a veto on sales to sensitive countries like Pakistan and Taiwan. This deal is being “finalized”, though no deal with India is a done deal until cash arrives on the barrelhead. But suppose it moves forward, and Indian F-16s are produced in quantity starting in 2019 or 2020. Depending on the technologies transferred or made accessible by India, there is considerable scope to update and upgrade the F-16 to achieve a degree of equivalence to stealth-by-other-means, so as to be competitive with state-of-the-art and relatively stealthy Russian and Chinese fighters. Those upgrades will likely find a ready market with the world’s F-16 operators.

The F-16 deal can be used as the cornerstone to develop a domestic Indian military aircraft manufacturing capability with considerable export potential. This would give China pause before risking a conflict with India, and put China on notice that its arming up Pakistan—to include the transfer of nuclear weapons know-how—is threatening India. Until now, China has not paid much of a price for this Maoist-era strategy of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

Developing these technologies and capabilities can give India the option of expanding arms sales to other Southeast Asian states which presently operate a mix of poorly integrated or wholly unintegrated American, European and Russian equipment. Beyond that, there is the option of Indian arms sales to Taiwan in response to a major provocation or conflict with China. Integrating these weapons with appropriate upgrades and acquisition of a few key pieces will challenge Chinese dominance of the South China Sea. To wit, the sale of BrahMos cruise missiles fundamentally altered Chinese strategic calculations toward Vietnam. Modest sales of relatively inexpensive (at $3 million each) air-, land-, ship- and submarine-based cruise missiles to Southeast Asian states disputing the 9-Dash-Line claims would effectively make those waters a no-go zone for major Chinese surface combatants or shipping. The BrahMos and the F-16IN would thus constitute a key component of a low cost, high leverage anti-access and area denial strategy against China.

Dr. Danny Lam is an independent researcher based in Calgary. The opinions herein are the author’s. This piece first appeared in the Defense Industrialist blog here.

Image: Creative Commons/Flickr.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ns-bid-build-lethal-f-16-fighters-india-17329

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

F-16 deal is really a coup against the generals of Pakistan(of course depending on if the deal comes through). Imagine in the late 80's when Pakistan relations with U.S. took a nose dive on the sanctions regime that stopped the sale of the same jet that may end up being "built" in India? Irony at its ultimate best!

 

[shhh]

Why Lockheed Martin's Bid to Build Lethal F-16 Fighters in India Could be a Game Changer

Danny Lam
August 12, 2016



The US Air Force and those of other NATO countries are phasing out F-16s much sooner than anticipated. This implies that performance of F-35s has met expectations, and that there are no obvious show-stoppers to ramping up production as fast as budgets allow. The F-15, F-16, and F/A-18 production lines are all slated to close by 2020. But there is more to this deal, as it has the potential to alter the balance of power in South and Southeast Asia over the next decade.

Lockheed-Martin’s “Made in India” deal, which offers exclusive rights to manufacture and produce ‘Block 70/72’ F-16s, implies that few—if any—orders are expected from NATO countries. India will have a veto on sales to sensitive countries like Pakistan and Taiwan. This deal is being “finalized”, though no deal with India is a done deal until cash arrives on the barrelhead. But suppose it moves forward, and Indian F-16s are produced in quantity starting in 2019 or 2020. Depending on the technologies transferred or made accessible by India, there is considerable scope to update and upgrade the F-16 to achieve a degree of equivalence to stealth-by-other-means, so as to be competitive with state-of-the-art and relatively stealthy Russian and Chinese fighters. Those upgrades will likely find a ready market with the world’s F-16 operators.

The F-16 deal can be used as the cornerstone to develop a domestic Indian military aircraft manufacturing capability with considerable export potential. This would give China pause before risking a conflict with India, and put China on notice that its arming up Pakistan—to include the transfer of nuclear weapons know-how—is threatening India. Until now, China has not paid much of a price for this Maoist-era strategy of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

Developing these technologies and capabilities can give India the option of expanding arms sales to other Southeast Asian states which presently operate a mix of poorly integrated or wholly unintegrated American, European and Russian equipment. Beyond that, there is the option of Indian arms sales to Taiwan in response to a major provocation or conflict with China. Integrating these weapons with appropriate upgrades and acquisition of a few key pieces will challenge Chinese dominance of the South China Sea. To wit, the sale of BrahMos cruise missiles fundamentally altered Chinese strategic calculations toward Vietnam. Modest sales of relatively inexpensive (at $3 million each) air-, land-, ship- and submarine-based cruise missiles to Southeast Asian states disputing the 9-Dash-Line claims would effectively make those waters a no-go zone for major Chinese surface combatants or shipping. The BrahMos and the F-16IN would thus constitute a key component of a low cost, high leverage anti-access and area denial strategy against China.

Dr. Danny Lam is an independent researcher based in Calgary. The opinions herein are the author’s. This piece first appeared in the Defense Industrialist blog here.

Image: Creative Commons/Flickr.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ns-bid-build-lethal-f-16-fighters-india-17329

So... lets suppose, if the deal goes through (which will probably happen).
What would be India's options about French/Russian jets.
I do not expect India to operate Russian Su-35s, French Rafael and USA F-16s at the same time.

Additionally it will force India to join the USA camp (as if it is not already happening), but it will give USA a powerful card to play, India will then be forced to serve US interests.

For example, just a few months ago, India/Indians were not interested in joining the SCS dispute, but they appear to be convinced now.

I wonder what changed.

 

[dadeechi]

So... lets suppose, if the deal goes through (which will probably happen).
What would be India's options about French/Russian jets.
I do not expect India to operate Russian Su-35s, French Rafael and USA F-16s at the same time.

Additionally it will force India to join the USA camp (as if it is not already happening), but it will give USA a powerful card to play, India will then be forced to serve US interests.

For example, just a few months ago, India/Indians were not interested in joining the SCS dispute, but they appear to be convinced now.

I wonder what changed.

India needs to induct 400+ aircrafts in the next 3-5 years.

India would not procure SU-35s as India is going for the 8 Billion dollar deal to upgrade SU-30MKIs to Super Sukhois.

Also 60+ PAK-FA would be procured until FGFA is ready

Both RAFALEs and F-16s are going to be inducted in the next 3-5 years.

 

[shhh]

India needs to induct 400+ aircrafts in the next 3-5 years.

India would not procure SU-35s as India is going for the 8 Billion dollar deal to upgrade SU-30MKIs to Super Sukhois.

Also 60+ PAK-FA would be procured until FGFA is ready

Both RAFALEs and F-16s are going to be inducted in the next 3-5 years.

So Russia, European and American jets, all three in a single air force, doesn't seem like a good strategy.
Why do you need F-16s if you will get Rafale.
Rafales are better than F-16s.

 

[dadeechi]

So Russia, European and American jets, all three in a single air force, doesn't seem like a good strategy.
Why do you need F-16s if you will get Rafale.
Rafales are better than F-16s.

IAF has an authorized strength of 42 squadrons and this is how it would meet that desired strength.

 

[Hamza913]

Like all these deals with India, this one will be delayed to no end and never happen. Just like the Rafale deal, India's attempt to purchase Hornets, or India's attempt to purchase Predators.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Right I'm closing this thread. Many senior Indian members have rubbished this as hear say, and listed extensively the reasons why it will not happen, and that India is not interested.

@waz

This was the case in the last government. Members want to take seriously when the current MoD said recently of a another production line being opened(outside HAL), we speculated a line for Rafale, sure. The same MoD, even more recently, said a production line for a completely different line of birds a month ago in the TATA Boeing Apache fuselage plant ceremony. Of which Boeing is somehow still in the game.

6:20


Some reps have been brief as well-- (Boeing's Rep)

“We have been advised not to consider this as an MMRCA extension or competition – this is completely different than anything – than MMRCA. Yes, it’s about the capability of the aircraft, of course, but this is more about the eco-system,” she said.

http://www.stratpost.com/boeing-cla...r?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#_



You guys gotta stop brushing these things in the carpet. Ask me about F16, F18, Griphen, etc. getting in a year ago, I would've laughed at you. Not the case any more. This current government is throwing things in the air.


This isnt just interesting in the Indian defence context, but defence context as a whole. As you, may, see a production line outside HAL producing jets.

 

[kaykay]

So Russia, European and American jets, all three in a single air force, doesn't seem like a good strategy.
Why do you need F-16s if you will get Rafale.
Rafales are better than F-16s.

India already operate Russian and European jets...and if USA gives a good deal then why not US jets giving Tejas already uses American engine. See the thing is that India is buying 36 Rafales off the shelf while in an entirely new deal, 100+ jets are to be built in India( these jets could be anything, more Rafales, Gripen, F-16IN, F-18SH depending on the selection but my opinion is that these will be low cost jets like F-16IN or Gripen)....and yeah Rafale is better than F-16IN but again they are 2-3 times more costly....so better go with hi-lo mix in my opinion....few sqds of Rafales + Rest of F-16s/F-18SH/Gripen will serve the purpose.

 

[anant_s]

IAF has an authorized strength of 42 squadrons and this is how it would meet that desired strength.

Interesting!
I'm drawn towards third and forth rows (Rafale and F16). Somehow it looks co-existence of 3 production lines for Tejas, Rafale (Assuming next lot of 90 are covered under MII) and the third line for F16/18, in 9 year time horizon, might not be feasible. Economically and from induction point of view for IAF.

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @MilSpec
We can say nothing for sure in India, but will it be a really smart idea to continue production of legacy fighters (like F16/18) in 2020 and beyond when world would be moving towards 5th generation fighters and UCAVs. More so when India has similar plans (PAK FA variant, AMCA possibly and some kind of UCAV, which now looks more likely after India is a signatory of MTCR and co-operation in this field is now open).
I don't think going back to F16 is a particularly wise move.

 

[gayMo]

I think the F16 manufacturing will be good, if we can get engine tech for our other planes and improvise on that. We are already 80% done according to Smecma

 

[ito]

There is a need to build strategic relations with US. I can say having F16 manufacturing plant in India is huge commitment that both sides are making towards their mutual strategic interests. India should latch upon this opportunity.