Loadshedding to end-2017 PM ..After failing in past a new promise .. LOL

[Daneshmand]

Very useful information. Thank you.

Yes totally agree with you. But I don't see any political will.
Maybe members from each city of Pakistan can initiate small projects in their own towns. This way the work can be initiated simultaneously across Pakistan and the energy problem can be eliminated.

You are welcome and hope for the best!

 

[Daneshmand]

@Shah01 Are you still working on your project?

 

[Shah01]

@Shah01 Are you still working on your project?

Yes the project is progressing slowly as I have been a bit busy for the last few weeks. I have done a bit of cost analysis which I posted a chart in the other thread. I will be further looking at it and refining the model plus looking at the cost of setting up the infrastructure.

 

[kamrananvaar]

The Metro has its own positive role to play, but the PM should not be brazenly lying like this. Loadshedding is here to stay permanently in Pakistan for the foreseeable future, even without the Metro.

Why is it here to stay . Instead of putting all your effort into metro why not iran pakistan gas pipeline . Even your masters are patching up with iran . France who was most opposed to iran , came rushing in with multinational company directors like total . They see an oppurtunity and they go for it whereas we are still debating .
Simple maths iran has one of the largest reserves of k own gas in the world , they want to sell. We are thirsty for it but cant have it due to usa . Screw usa , is usa doung everything by the book - united nations . No they are not . They are in cahoots wuth uran and we have an incompetant minisrer whose mantra is to Alan karna.

Well unfortunately I have inform you that solar option is very expensive. Putting solar panel on every roof is hardly a small project. One single solar panel produces very little power not enough to even run a fan the whole day. Forget about refrigeration, air conditioning and a plethora of electric and electronic devices from microwaves to TV. In order to meet even part of this demand you will have to install several panels, with corresponding battery storage system and a ac/dc converter plus a load management system. These all add up to an expensive solution. If you multiply it for tens of millions of homes in Pakistan, you will have a mega project on your hand.

Better would be to create two national companies. One manufacturing power plant equipment and specializing in installing them. And another manufacturing transmission, transformer and switching equipment and installing them. These two companies can even be under the control of Pakistan military if the government can not run them efficiently. There are advantages to a national company in dire situation that Pakistan is in. One is the fact that such a national company does not need a gigantic reserves of dollars to create installed capacity. Right now Pakistan has to pay top dollars to foreign companies to build and install power plants. Dollars are always short. But national company doing most of the manufacturing inside the country only needs Rupees in Pakistan's case which you print yourselves (at tolerable rate of creating some inflation). Under such a model you can go on and increase your installed capacity along with transmission system.

This is how in real world it is done. This is how China did it. Through national companies. This is how Iran did it. Through national companies. Unless you do not have low population and a big access to dollars like some Arab fiefdom, then this is your only salvation. In the start, Pakistan needs to keep it simple and low cost. For example by only concentrating to buy technology for the kind of power plants which can be built fast, and produce cheapest electricity for instance the combined cycle plants. When things pick up after a decade or so then such a company can diversify to other areas.

I estimate, to buy the technology and setup a factory that can manufacture turbines and generators for combined cycle plants would cost something like a few billion dollars. Add to this a couple of billion dollars to buy technology and manufacturing capacity for transmission equipment. Pakistan is already paying billions and billions to foreign companies setting up ridiculous plants such as wind and solar and others like this one here, often under long term and financially noncompetitive terms. Why not invest in your own capacity to build plants?

I do not see any other solution. Pakistan is a poor country and can not increase its installed capacity at all through foreign buying of plants and solar panels for homes. The only solution is to internalize the technology. As other countries have done.

Logical points and hard to disagree.

Here, you are underestimating the technical complexity of such a system. First of all it is not about just changing a meter. The whole grid has to be upgraded to make it bi-directional and capable of what you are proposing (selling electricity back to grid). This means a huge investment on the part of the government. Beside Pakistan does not have the installed capacity and a smart grid necessary to act like a battery for the consumers. This leaves you with the option of each house having its own solar panels, batteries, AC/DC converter and some kind of a switching system (auto or manual) to change between grid and house. And for this I do not think anybody or the government is stopping people to install this system.

Do you know why people do not do it on their own? Because PV generated electricity is expensive. The batteries are not 100% efficient and much power is lost between charging them, and drawing power from them and by the AC/DC converter. What you are left with is not 4KW of the original theoretical capacity of the panels but quite less. Then it is the cost of buying this equipment and maintaining it (for instance changing the lead acid batteries, you yourself mentioned). Without government subsidizing, that is giving people cash or vouchers to buy and maintain this equipment, it would not be feasible for the people to do it. A quality 4 KW solar system costs over 5,000 dollars when bought in bulk in international market.

And this means the government has to spend huge amount of money whether by subsidizing these home systems and then by installing smart bi-directional grid. All for what? For a solar electricity that costs twice as much per kwh as the one produced by combined cycle plants?

Countries like UK and Germany can do such things, because they are rich and can afford such "luxurious ideas" like saving the earth and saving the pandas. These ideas are not for poor Pakistanis. You should save yourselves. From heat, so that people do not drop dead on streets because they do not have fans and refrigerated drinking water. The money as I said, should be spent to buy and internalize technologies for plants that can produce low cost electricity in shortest amount of time. This means combined cycle plants.

You will know your government is serious about solving this issue when you see it is doing what I proposed. Any other thing, from solar to wind and from "foreign investment" to "war on pilferage" are just political tricks to postpone the problem into the future to be solved (or alternatively explode) in the tenure of future governments.

Dead on totally agree with you .

 

[Danish saleem]

Even though im a pti supporter i have to say i feel that nawaz would fulfill this promise and would end loadshedding. I wont give all of the credit to him though as the chinese are investing but if we compare him to ppp then he is doing a great job. I think its time we support our pm.

at least we saw more commitment as compare to last 2 governments.
from me Best of Luck to PM
and for PTI i voted for PTI in 2013, so i am not a supporter of PMLN at all.

 

[Shah01]

Does anyone know a good site where I can find construction cost for gas, coal, hydro etc power plants?