Lieutenant General Salman Fayyaz Ghani Sacked/Resigned

[Signalian]

So does that mean you test the limits of the system and make an enemy of your own people ?
At least 2 of the mentioned " opponents" above have caused you irreversible damage...
Is taking hits from own citizens something a nation's military be proud of ?
The games and half hatched plans your fellows have played have destroyed this nation.

Lol @ my fellows

I stated reality. What’s your plan to change it ?

 

[Signalian]

If IK becomes PM first thing he has to do is do an investigation into Arshad Sharif case and punish all those responsible and after that the financial affairs of army have to be controlled by civilians
Only when the lucrative ventures are taken away will they behave

The war front that IK has opened with army will be sidelined just like that if IK becomes PM ?

 

[Goritoes]

Lol @ my fellows

I stated reality. What’s your plan to change it ?

Just because you stated doesn't make it a reality, apne mun mian mitho ? LOL

 

[Zibago]

The war front that IK has opened with army will be sidelined just like that if IK becomes PM ?

No
A lot of course correction that is required will happen its just that all that in a bankrupt state will be terrifying

 

[Signalian]

No
A lot of course correction that is required will happen its just that all that in a bankrupt state will be terrifying

Army says it’s interested in maintaining democracy

1. Will army maintain selective democracy ? E.g maintain with SS N league only ?

2. Will army maintain democracy if IK comes to power ? Or will army go towards martial law then.

3. If IK comes up as PM, the enmity between Army and PTI will let Pakistan sail smoothly ?

 

[White privilege]

Army says it’s interested in maintaining democracy

1. Will army maintain selective democracy ? E.g maintain with SS N league only ?

2. Will army maintain democracy if IK comes to power ? Or will army go towards martial law then.

3. If IK comes up as PM, the enmity between Army and PTI will let Pakistan sail smoothly ?

1. Army knows that Shobaz N-league, is an effing joke, incapable of wresting control from or acting independent off Noora's orders. The reason both of them are still kicking is, Army does not want to decapitate the half the politics of the biggest province.

2. Army 'backed' democracy through the worst of WOT, even though these politicians plotted and planned against the Army's image and prestige every single day, so yeah Imran can stay too.

3. Pakistan has 'sailed' through in between enmity of civil/military junta, for the last decade, even more than that, I think it would endure....

 

[Tamerlane]

When he’s elected PM here is no chance of Imran Khan working with Asim Munir.

Imran Khan would be a lawfully elected leader of the 240 million people of Pakistan.

Asim Munir is an unlawfully appointed army chief who signed a contract with Pakistan’s most powerful crime family to sneak into power. He’s guilty of breaking the constitution of Pakistan. He’s guilty of unleashing his dogs of war on the people of Pakistan. He’s guilty of suppressing the media. He’s guilty of illegal abductions, murder, torture and rape of citizens. He’s guilty of subverting the electoral process. He’s guilty of subverting the judicial system.

In short, Asim Munir is a criminal who needs to be court martialed and brought to justice

Why would the prime minister of Pakistan work with a criminal like this?

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Until and unless Asim doesn't remove Naveed Anjum and his co. (dirty harry, psychopath) from their positions, relations between IK and Army will not improve infact is getting worse by every passing day. They are planning to open sedition cases against IK and lock him up for the next 10 years which IK tweeted earlier today. They might even arrest him today.

P.S. Bajwa removed Karachi sector incharge ISI for Safdar arrest which was nothing as compared to the atrocities which ISI is committing against PTI leaders on daily basis.

 

[Jf Thunder]

The problem is that military is bloody strong in every aspect, it can take on hits from own citizens, Indian Army, TTP, BLA and still keep functioning.

 

[Zibago]

Army says it’s interested in maintaining democracy

1. Will army maintain selective democracy ? E.g maintain with SS N league only ?

2. Will army maintain democracy if IK comes to power ? Or will army go towards martial law then.

3. If IK comes up as PM, the enmity between Army and PTI will let Pakistan sail smoothly ?

What army says and what it does are two different things

We heard of big claims of Kargil in the 90's
Destroying Baloch resistance in the 00's
Shooting drones if they crossed our territory in the 2010's

What they claim and do are different

The army is NOT interested in democracy infact it is the biggest hindrance in true democracy

Right now even Indian occupied Kashmir is more Democratic than Pakistan

View attachment 929750

They still think we actually believe such claims of bravado from them when literally two ago some 3-4 terrorists killed 16 soldiers in Balochistan

 

[blain2]

There's a purge going on right now. Disciplined and experienced soldiers and officers are being replaced with yes-men. All the hard work that was done in the past 20 years to professionalize the army are being reversed.

It's honestly frightening.

Replacement with yes-men has been going on ever since the founding of this army. And I should say it happens all over the world and in corporate too but the difference in Pakistan is that our army is involved in things it has no business being involved in.

Every single C-in-C, CoAS, and senior leader in the army relies on his own inner group to get things done. Do we really believe that things were great in the beginning when rankers (non-commissioned) were fast-track promoted to senior ranks? Why do you think our performance was average in both 1965 and 1971?

It takes one man at the top to either render the organization ineffective or moving in the right direction. Army has thankfully always had a "professional side" which makes up the majority. These are officers and men involved in the routine army work. The problem is the distraction of the army in politics which has continued unabated. This stench wreaks into other areas of the professional army.

The solution obviously is to completely pull Army out of all political dimensions and not the way half-*** efforts are taking place under the incumbent. If anything, he has accelerated the involvement of the army in politics.

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I think you may be missing his point. He is not boasting, simply stating a fact that army can slog through a lot on the multi-dimensional plane where results are a mixed bag. It would do the army a whole lot more good and improve its performance if the entire political dimension was not on its plate, but unfortunately the senior leadership of the army has invited itself to the party.

 

[Olympus81]

I am quite dumbfounded as to why the Army leadership is going through all this just to keep one party out.

If they lose their influence and corruption avenues, there is always a chance they can claw it back over time. Undermining Pakistan down to this level will hurt them which they might not recover from.

The Army is not as powerful as one thinks. Imagine 2 years ago, if the Army would have lose the hearts and minds of people. Their dirty secrets are all out in the open. Even the PDM are not having second thoughts about sending retired officers to jail or throwing dirt on Bajwa.

 

[blain2]

I am quite dumbfounded as to why the Army leadership is going through all this just to keep one party out.

If they lose their influence and corruption avenues, there is always a chance they can claw it back over time. Undermining Pakistan down to this level will hurt them which they might not recover from.

The Army is not as powerful as one thinks. Imagine 2 years ago, if the Army would have lose the hearts and minds of people. Their dirty secrets are all out in the open. Even the PDM are not having second thoughts about sending retired officers to jail or throwing dirt on Bajwa.

This is a good question.

I honestly have not been able to get clarity on this from anyone.

My own take (this has been my consistent thinking) is that it is the external alignment (read the US/West) that is driving Army's stubborn stance on anything-but-IK dispensation (we are beyond the argument that it is not their job to play king-makers). However, over time, I think this external factor + self-preservation for people in the CoAS' inner circle, including DG-I, DG-C etc. is leading to this doubling-down of the stance against PTI/IK. This is where the real danger is. If these people feel their backs are against the wall (one possibility is that they could be sent to the gallows since people have actually died), they may resort to all sorts of #2 harbay.

I feel that while people may simply park this army push-back to greed for "DHA plots, incentives, money" and preserving their way of life etc., I think the reasons are more fundamental as in the survival of the inner circle around Gen Munir and Gen Bajwa previously.

If IK can deftly get the army to realize that the goodwill lost to the people of Pakistan is not worth taking this course and that he will not be vindictive, the army can come around because we have to remember that at one point, PML-N was enemy #1 in the army's crosshairs yet the burnt bridge was reconstructed.

 

[PakCan]

Army says it’s interested in maintaining democracy

1. Will army maintain selective democracy ? E.g maintain with SS N league only ?

2. Will army maintain democracy if IK comes to power ? Or will army go towards martial law then.

3. If IK comes up as PM, the enmity between Army and PTI will let Pakistan sail smoothly ?

Army has to do a course correction and sane voices within have to speak. History of army interference has shown that it has failed to improve lives of civilians. Civilians will always blame army due to its interference in a democratic process.

Khan is backed by awam, army has to remember it is a an institution under PM not above. Khan becomes IK, he has every right to go after black sheep’s within army, bureaucrats and corrupt politicians. We can keep going in loops but army is in the wrong and have to end this madness. We are heading towards civil war and before we become next Sudan army has to back down.

History has shown army heavy handed tactics and ego of small men broke our country. Loyalty to the state , all of retired and current soldiers need to understand your job was to defend Pakistan not COAS.

You guys can blindly support COAS and build bs narrative but one day death will reach everyone. In grave Pakistan army men don’t get special treatment, you guys won’t be able to simply say “Chain of command tha “ or “uper say order aya “ . Because uper say order came in the form of Quran.
Every soldier will be answerable and every person that supports the lies will be held accountable, won’t be able to run .

 

[Signalian]

What army says and what it does are two different things

We heard of big claims of Kargil in the 90's
Destroying Baloch resistance in the 00's
Shooting drones if they crossed our territory in the 2010's

What they claim and do are different

The army is NOT interested in democracy infact it is the biggest hindrance in true democracy

Right now even Indian occupied Kashmir is more Democratic than Pakistan


They still think we actually believe such claims of bravado from them when literally two ago some 3-4 terrorists killed 16 soldiers in Balochistan

The ground reality on these occurrences could be quite different. Two entities who are daggers drawn at each other at this stage will not let go of this conflict. It’s wrongly asserted that it’s a battle of egos. This maybe ego for IK, I don’t know but for military it’s about a certain form of “hold”. A hold over its own domain which got challenged recently on 9th may and a hold over its supremacy over other government departments. The former is hard to let go, but the latter has to go. And in order for the latter to go, IK is not walking the correct path. IK is constantly challenging the government and army from a position of weakness based on public strength but this is debatable and I will tell you why.

1. At this point, IK is a lesser threat to both Govt and military. If he comes in power, they will perceive him as a bigger threat. Those circumstances will then dictate the strategy of other political parties and military how to deal with IK.

2. Protests erupted in major cities, not smaller cities or towns. This shows where the support lies for IK. But where does the majority of population reside in Pakistan. So just like 93k is a bloated figure for 71 era pows, the 220 million backing IK is also a bloated figure. This is a concern since SriLankan public’s literacy level is above Pakistan’s which is why major cities of Pakistan saw protests, which can be counted on fingers while when compared with all cities of Pakistan, the ratio is still small.

Now the original point was IK as PM and military working together with him. I was hoping for some realists insight. There is a big divide between both now.

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Firstly, your biased and judgemental mind didn’t let you understand what I was saying.

Secondly, let me clear your doubt. Did you see two dictatorships after 1971? Roughly 20 years on total. Yeah there’s your answer.

You must have been born under one of the dictatorships, either Zia or Musharraf.

Army can have more dictatorships and your kids might be born during them. Can you stop that ? No you can’t. Now you get my gist hopefully.