Lieutenant General Salman Fayyaz Ghani Sacked/Resigned

[nahtanbob]

As i see it, CC is unfit for command and rightly called back into GHQ.

What he should have done is - shown his leadership and command experience in such situation, here is how :

He had at least 6 x QRF vehicles providing security to his house, That means he had at least a regiment on call of security of his residence. First step, he should have had intel of the mob gathering and advancing at his residence. Second step, he should have called up at least 1 x Coy of regiment (150 troops) and 2 x platoons of Military Police at his residence. Third step, should have asked for prepared meals for 100s of people at his residence from the Army Messes in the cantonment.
Now, he should have told his staff to tell the QRF vehicles to remain intact and form up in a single group, not stand individually all around his residence. Then he should have opened the gates of his residence, and would have told the extra called on troops to urge the people to enter the residence through the gate. Then in the lawns and open areas, he should have set up the banquet of food and would have addressed the mob by using mob control techniques. One of the effective technique is to spot the mob leader, there is always a mob leader who shouts the most, ignited the emotion of the mob and screams slogans at the opposite party - so he is not hard to detect.

CC, his staff and the troops should be telling the people to go inside and have food. This is hospitality when someone comes to your residence, even if its your enemy, the hospitality has t be offered. The troops should be told not to fire at the mob as troops are not allowed to fire at own citizens. In fact, the troops are required to intimidate the crowd since its difficult for a lone man to effectively control a mob. Troops are intimidation, not a force to be used, but numbers to be shown, apart from other duties of guiding the mob, so even if armed with personal weapons, there shouldn't be a riot control gear which is threatening to the mob.

Now, the CC and his staff should have spotted the mob leader and talked to him. He should have talked to the mob leader is to stress the importance of considering public opinions. Then determine and evaluate any implicit guidelines or presumptions in the mob. Recognize their biases. This is what I mentioned that ISPR should have done, instead of engaging a media front with PTI, ISPR should have turned towards the public and addressed their concerns.

The offer of food and hospitality is not just the culture, its also a psychological factor for calming down emotions. Even if the mob rejects it, thats alright since its a humanitarian gesture from the CC and as the talk with mob/mob leader get take a nasty turn, the first psychological factor is making them stand at one place and then asking them to sit down. Thats breaking the "charged up" psychological condition of mind. Just like when you are angry, change posture (stand if sitting, sit of standing), change surroundings, that reduces the emotion of anger. Presence of food also shows that you are welcome at some place and its a place to relax. These are psychological factors for the mob. Then mixing of so many uniformed soldiers within the crowd is also another psychological factor, as it doesn't become 1 vs 1 then, since both teams walking with intermixed with each other. Its not mob on one side and soldiers on other side. CC should have asked the soldiers to mix freely with the mob instead of standing like guards or standing like forming a line against them.

Using a loud speaker or not, CC should have taken the leadership role himself and talked to the crowd surrounded with his staff with soldiers mixed in the crowd. He should have let them talk, but answered their queries, re-iterating that they are guests at his house and as guests they are offered food and drinks. He should have then urged them to go back to their homes after the stay as somethings are out of his hands but since he has listened to their concerns, he will inform their concerns to whatever authority they want to approach and be heard to. Next he should have asked the mob leader/leaders to visit him in office the next day to get feedback for their concerns.

Like I said, I have seen military officers taking leadership role in front of charged tribes which become mobs in Baluchistan, and coming alone even to talk to them without backing of troops. There are ways and means to show leadership in different manners and ways.

The above solution may not be the best, there could be multiple more, however the following points is where the CC and if I was COAS, I would see him unfit for command on following:

1. He had no intel, no strategy, no plan - so no leadership.

2. Possible political sympathy with PTI, which is fine, but that doesn't mean to allow them to come to vandalize property.

3. An officer who cannot protect Government property authorized to him and is under his responsibility, is not fit for command.

4. CC had resources and troops at his disposal to effectively counter, thwart and manage the situation, yet failed to do so.

5. If CC cannot manage security of his own residence, he cannot manage defense of country.

In any case, there are are 9 Corps Command and some 30 officers at/above ranks of Lt General, considering both ratios, this one makes a dent for media, but over all not that much.

@Signalian
seriously do you want your Corps commander focusing on how to wage war against India as opposed to fighting mob of internal citizens ?

 

[Mr.JoJI]

As i see it, CC is unfit for command and rightly called back into GHQ.

What he should have done is - shown his leadership and command experience in such situation, here is how :

He had at least 6 x QRF vehicles providing security to his house, That means he had at least a regiment on call of security of his residence. First step, he should have had intel of the mob gathering and advancing at his residence. Second step, he should have called up at least 1 x Coy of regiment (150 troops) and 2 x platoons of Military Police at his residence. Third step, should have asked for prepared meals for 100s of people at his residence from the Army Messes in the cantonment.
Now, he should have told his staff to tell the QRF vehicles to remain intact and form up in a single group, not stand individually all around his residence. Then he should have opened the gates of his residence, and would have told the extra called on troops to urge the people to enter the residence through the gate. Then in the lawns and open areas, he should have set up the banquet of food and would have addressed the mob by using mob control techniques. One of the effective technique is to spot the mob leader, there is always a mob leader who shouts the most, ignited the emotion of the mob and screams slogans at the opposite party - so he is not hard to detect.

CC, his staff and the troops should be telling the people to go inside and have food. This is hospitality when someone comes to your residence, even if its your enemy, the hospitality has t be offered. The troops should be told not to fire at the mob as troops are not allowed to fire at own citizens. In fact, the troops are required to intimidate the crowd since its difficult for a lone man to effectively control a mob. Troops are intimidation, not a force to be used, but numbers to be shown, apart from other duties of guiding the mob, so even if armed with personal weapons, there shouldn't be a riot control gear which is threatening to the mob.

Now, the CC and his staff should have spotted the mob leader and talked to him. He should have talked to the mob leader is to stress the importance of considering public opinions. Then determine and evaluate any implicit guidelines or presumptions in the mob. Recognize their biases. This is what I mentioned that ISPR should have done, instead of engaging a media front with PTI, ISPR should have turned towards the public and addressed their concerns.

The offer of food and hospitality is not just the culture, its also a psychological factor for calming down emotions. Even if the mob rejects it, thats alright since its a humanitarian gesture from the CC and as the talk with mob/mob leader get take a nasty turn, the first psychological factor is making them stand at one place and then asking them to sit down. Thats breaking the "charged up" psychological condition of mind. Just like when you are angry, change posture (stand if sitting, sit of standing), change surroundings, that reduces the emotion of anger. Presence of food also shows that you are welcome at some place and its a place to relax. These are psychological factors for the mob. Then mixing of so many uniformed soldiers within the crowd is also another psychological factor, as it doesn't become 1 vs 1 then, since both teams walking with intermixed with each other. Its not mob on one side and soldiers on other side. CC should have asked the soldiers to mix freely with the mob instead of standing like guards or standing like forming a line against them.

Using a loud speaker or not, CC should have taken the leadership role himself and talked to the crowd surrounded with his staff with soldiers mixed in the crowd. He should have let them talk, but answered their queries, re-iterating that they are guests at his house and as guests they are offered food and drinks. He should have then urged them to go back to their homes after the stay as somethings are out of his hands but since he has listened to their concerns, he will inform their concerns to whatever authority they want to approach and be heard to. Next he should have asked the mob leader/leaders to visit him in office the next day to get feedback for their concerns.

Like I said, I have seen military officers taking leadership role in front of charged tribes which become mobs in Baluchistan, and coming alone even to talk to them without backing of troops. There are ways and means to show leadership in different manners and ways.

The above solution may not be the best, there could be multiple more, however the following points is where the CC and if I was COAS, I would see him unfit for command on following:

1. He had no intel, no strategy, no plan - so no leadership.

2. Possible political sympathy with PTI, which is fine, but that doesn't mean to allow them to come to vandalize property.

3. An officer who cannot protect Government property authorized to him and is under his responsibility, is not fit for command.

4. CC had resources and troops at his disposal to effectively counter, thwart and manage the situation, yet failed to do so.

5. If CC cannot manage security of his own residence, he cannot manage defense of country.

In any case, there are are 9 Corps Command and some 30 officers at/above ranks of Lt General, considering both ratios, this one makes a dent for media, but over all not that much.

What he should have done was get all the soldiers he can muster, setup a long line of armed soldiers like the colonial era British army and open fire over anyone coming 1km of the CC house.


Since Kashmir and Afghanistan are a no go, ab log hi reh gaye hain marnay kay liye. Kuch dinon mai woh bhi hatyaar utha lain gai jub mulk default hoga. Uskay baad sab bech kar Dubai settle hojana.

 

[diligence]

THe steps u r talking about is responsibility of police and government and not army ...

What core commander house is doing in the middle of the city and what army has to do with cities? They should move to barracks, borders and contonment areas away from cities ...

Its time that armed froces should stop mendling with affairs of public ...

Its rangers and ssgc who started this by arresting imran khan a dumb move but message is clear now if anything happen to imran khan, it will not be a protest only this time houses will be burned with people inside ... tit for tat ... its pure ignoramce of militaty leadership that forced us to hate them.

Pdf is perfect example. 90% of us were the ideological defender of the armed forces ... u can check our past posts fighting pdm and indians to protect armed forces against propaganda but thanks to bajwa and asim they showed how wrong we were and now 90% of us now hate army leadership and we are representative of feelings of Pakistani ...

There could be pro PTI people, may be pro PDM people but hating army leadership is common thanks to bajea and asim ...

We still love our armed forces but not the generals ... general has come to senses before this hate destroy everything

No sir, that's not entirely true. Yes, in the civilian areas, it's polices' responsibility to provide protection. But military has equal or more of the responsibility to safeguard its vital buildings, installations, and assets from the attacks by the enemies both internal and external. This particular CC was allegedly found disabling military protective measures against these arsonists and terrorists of PTI. More than that, he allegedly allowed them in the premises and tried to negotiate with them. But the violent arsonists were over-charged and so you can see in the video (circulating on the Internet) that this CC, apparently his sons, and wife disgracefully begging with the terrorists of the PTI to save their lives. This begging CC and particularly his wife allegedly are PTI supporters. But the terrorists could care the least if this disgraced dude and his wife were PTI supporters. These terrorists wanted to hit the army as an institute and so they systematically looted and burned the CC house. This disgraced dude was supposed to protect the dignity and sanctity of this symbol of his institute but he miserably failed in doing that. Much worse than that, the PTI terrorists stole his uniform and disgraced it publicly. This is utterly shameful for the army. I think this disgraceful dude should be court marshaled and punished for his cowardice.

It is worth mentioning that out of 1200 or so terrorist arsonists of the PTI so far identified and caught by the LEAs, about a 1000 of them are TTP terrorists. That shows how much the evil nexus exists in these two terrorist organizations. As I mentioned in my previous post, the actual handlers of these two terrorist organizations are the same. While most of these terrorists who launched well-planned and organized attacks on army installations and symbols (pictures of our sacred Shuhada and Ghazis, Kalama Taiba and Darood-an-Nabi SaW boards, and war monuments, etc.) have been nabbed, it is still an open question how many more terrorists of the TTP are hiding in the PTI in the garb of political supporters.

It seems you are putting the blame for all that rot and terrorism squarely on the army chief and that is a typical sign of a brainless PTI supporter. Regardless whatever you have to say in your support, the fact remains that it would create another unholy precedence that an army chief can be dismissed just because a brainless, characterless, and a habitual political liar, who has consistently defied every law of the land, wants him out. Can we allow that in future too? Please ponder on that. It's the sole prerogative of the PM to appoint and dismiss an army chief by following a predefined procedure.

BTW, the reason for IK being against the current army chief is well-known to everyone. The current army chief previously caught this political crook and his wife red-handed being involved in corruption and then had the courage to confront him with the evidence. So, IK's hatred towards the current army chief is not unexpected. But the blind PTI followers conveniently ignore that aspect.

 

[Olympus81]

BTW, the reason for IK being against the current army chief is well-known to everyone. The current army chief previously caught this political crook and his wife red-handed being involved in corruption and then had the courage to confront him with the evidence. So, IK's hatred towards the current army chief is not unexpected. But the blind PTI followers conveniently ignore that aspect.

That is an interesting theory.

What was the corruption about and why have the PDM not able to KO basis this corruption by IK and his wife.

 

[Xestan]

Connect the Dots .....

Gen Salman is the upright honest general who was the critique of Gen Asim and was against Gen Nadeem and Gen faisal (dirty harry) policies ....

General Salman disobey the order of Gen Asim to open fire on public.

Few ''miscreants '' directed mob to Corp commander house ,they entered without any resistance .They entered the house while Gen Salman and his family were inside .They didn't even get chance to take their belongings ,they were literally robbed and whole house was burnt . Luckily they got away alive . Plan could have bee to lynch him to achieve their evil plans.

This is inside job by criminal Bastards in ISI and traitors within ranks .Gen Asim is fully involved .Gen Sahir character and role is still suspicious .

Corp Commander Gen Asif ghafoor was against all this bullshit and see whats happening there is '' terrorist '' attack there and he is engaged .

Corp Commander Peshawar was against this Gen Asim and Co and he is in hot waters.

Gen bajwa the traitor is gone but his bastard Gang is stll in power .

Hey, man, just wanted to let you know, your theory sounds all cool but you forgot to add one thing, people were shot in Quetta Cantt, nobody was even allowed to come close to military installations. That's under Asif Ghafoor. You were saying?

 

[The Accountant]

No sir, that's not entirely true. Yes, in the civilian areas, it's polices' responsibility to provide protection. But military has equal or more of the responsibility to safeguard its vital buildings, installations, and assets from the attacks by the enemies both internal and external. This particular CC was allegedly found disabling military protective measures against these arsonists and terrorists of PTI. More than that, he allegedly allowed them in the premises and tried to negotiate with them. But the violent arsonists were over-charged and so you can see in the video (circulating on the Internet) that this CC, apparently his sons, and wife disgracefully begging with the terrorists of the PTI to save their lives. This begging CC and particularly his wife allegedly are PTI supporters. But the terrorists could care the least if this disgraced dude and his wife were PTI supporters. These terrorists wanted to hit the army as an institute and so they systematically looted and burned the CC house. This disgraced dude was supposed to protect the dignity and sanctity of this symbol of his institute but he miserably failed in doing that. Much worse than that, the PTI terrorists stole his uniform and disgraced it publicly. This is utterly shameful for the army. I think this disgraceful dude should be court marshaled and punished for his cowardice.

It is worth mentioning that out of 1200 or so terrorist arsonists of the PTI so far identified and caught by the LEAs, about a 1000 of them are TTP terrorists. That shows how much the evil nexus exists in these two terrorist organizations. As I mentioned in my previous post, the actual handlers of these two terrorist organizations are the same. While most of these terrorists who launched well-planned and organized attacks on army installations and symbols (pictures of our sacred Shuhada and Ghazis, Kalama Taiba and Darood-an-Nabi SaW boards, and war monuments, etc.) have been nabbed, it is still an open question how many more terrorists of the TTP are hiding in the PTI in the garb of political supporters.

It seems you are putting the blame for all that rot and terrorism squarely on the army chief and that is a typical sign of a brainless PTI supporter. Regardless whatever you have to say in your support, the fact remains that it would create another unholy precedence that an army chief can be dismissed just because a brainless, characterless, and a habitual political liar, who has consistently defied every law of the land, wants him out. Can we allow that in future too? Please ponder on that. It's the sole prerogative of the PM to appoint and dismiss an army chief by following a predefined procedure.

BTW, the reason for IK being against the current army chief is well-known to everyone. The current army chief previously caught this political crook and his wife red-handed being involved in corruption and then had the courage to confront him with the evidence. So, IK's hatred towards the current army chief is not unexpected. But the blind PTI followers conveniently ignore that aspect.

Are you mad calling people of Pakistan as terrorist who lost 50 lives. Terrorists are those who killed them. What the hell military installations are doing in the city ? military installations are against the enemy. Do military consider citizens as enemy ?

If 1000 are TTP terrorist then show me a single bomb blast (trade mark of TTP) or single murder of army personnel via heavy weapon (used by TTP).

Stop spreading lies you tout of traitor army generals.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

This is a sad moment indeed. There is a clear divide among views in various institutions in Pakistan including Political parties, Government Allies itself, Army top leaders and even Judiciary Top judges.
Where are we heading as a nation?

 

[diligence]

No sir, that's not entirely true. Yes, in the civilian areas, it's polices' responsibility to provide protection. But military has equal or more of the responsibility to safeguard its vital buildings, installations, and assets from the attacks by the enemies both internal and external. This particular CC was allegedly found disabling military protective measures against these arsonists and terrorists of PTI. More than that, he allegedly allowed them in the premises and tried to negotiate with them. But the violent arsonists were over-charged and so you can see in the video (circulating on the Internet) that this CC, apparently his sons, and wife disgracefully begging with the terrorists of the PTI to save their lives. This begging CC and particularly his wife allegedly are PTI supporters. But the terrorists could care the least if this disgraced dude and his wife were PTI supporters. These terrorists wanted to hit the army as an institute and so they systematically looted and burned the CC house. This disgraced dude was supposed to protect the dignity and sanctity of this symbol of his institute but he miserably failed in doing that. Much worse than that, the PTI terrorists stole his uniform and disgraced it publicly. This is utterly shameful for the army. I think this disgraceful dude should be court marshaled and punished for his cowardice.

It is worth mentioning that out of 1200 or so terrorist arsonists of the PTI so far identified and caught by the LEAs, about a 1000 of them are TTP terrorists. That shows how much the evil nexus exists in these two terrorist organizations. As I mentioned in my previous post, the actual handlers of these two terrorist organizations are the same. While most of these terrorists who launched well-planned and organized attacks on army installations and symbols (pictures of our sacred Shuhada and Ghazis, Kalama Taiba and Darood-an-Nabi SaW boards, and war monuments, etc.) have been nabbed, it is still an open question how many more terrorists of the TTP are hiding in the PTI in the garb of political supporters.

It seems you are putting the blame for all that rot and terrorism squarely on the army chief and that is a typical sign of a brainless PTI supporter. Regardless whatever you have to say in your support, the fact remains that it would create another unholy precedence that an army chief can be dismissed just because a brainless, characterless, and a habitual political liar, who has consistently defied every law of the land, wants him out. Can we allow that in future too? Please ponder on that. It's the sole prerogative of the PM to appoint and dismiss an army chief by following a predefined procedure.

BTW, the reason for IK being against the current army chief is well-known to everyone. The current army chief previously caught this political crook and his wife red-handed being involved in corruption and then had the courage to confront him with the evidence. So, IK's hatred towards the current army chief is not unexpected. But the blind PTI followers conveniently ignore that aspect.

Shabash. Keep doing what a mentally retard can do. I wish you could logically respond to me. But then again expecting that from a brainless idiot is futile.

 

[khansaheeb]

Reportedly Lieutenant General Salman Fayyaz Ghani (Corps Commander Lahore) refused to give orders to open fire on Pakistani citizens on May 9, 2023. As a punishment of not shooting Pakistani citizens, he was sacked by GHQ. Reports are that he resigned in protest. His chief of staff, Brig Amir Kiyanai is also sacked/transferred to AG branch.

Gen. Malik Asim is now given provisional charge of Lahore Corps, may be because he has shown wiliness to repeat Operation Searchlight in Lahore.

This is reported by Moeed Pirzada and some army related twitter accounts.

Report by Moeed Pirzada.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1656785054830321665

https://twitter.com/x/status/1656735172211900442

@PanzerKiel

Hero of Pakistan:-" Lieutenant General Salman Fayyaz Ghani (Corps Commander Lahore)"

 

[lightning F57]

That is an interesting theory.

What was the corruption about and why have the PDM not able to KO basis this corruption by IK and his wife.

It's not even a theory just delusional rant.

 

[Signalian]

THe steps u r talking about is responsibility of police and government and not army ...

What core commander house is doing in the middle of the city and what army has to do with cities? They should move to barracks, borders and contonment areas away from cities ...

Its time that armed froces should stop mendling with affairs of public ...

Its rangers and ssgc who started this by arresting imran khan a dumb move but message is clear now if anything happen to imran khan, it will not be a protest only this time houses will be burned with people inside ... tit for tat ... its pure ignoramce of militaty leadership that forced us to hate them.

Pdf is perfect example. 90% of us were the ideological defender of the armed forces ... u can check our past posts fighting pdm and indians to protect armed forces against propaganda but thanks to bajwa and asim they showed how wrong we were and now 90% of us now hate army leadership and we are representative of feelings of Pakistani ...

There could be pro PTI people, may be pro PDM people but hating army leadership is common thanks to bajea and asim ...

We still love our armed forces but not the generals ... general has come to senses before this hate destroy everything

You made it too easy so don't scowl at me
No im serious, dont get angry at me.

CC house in cantt, some cantts are mixed, others are not. Battle Axe Div units are has been moved across airport and Askari X, almost adjacent to DHA-8. Similarly, most units of westridge Pindi have moved near Golra more near EME-C, since Pindi is also an mixed cantt, apart from Chaklala.

Rangers have a SF wing, trained by SSG, that SF wing was involved. Don't undermine Rangers.

And re-iterating the same point again, Military leadership is not bothered about civilian opinion, but the commanders of many Garrisons are, so if you steps taken in some cantts where military and civil work together for public, the orders are coming from Flag staff house of the area.

Flag staff house, is where the highest ranked military officer of the area resides.

No one asked PDF members to make demi-gods out of top brass or COAS the way they have made a demi-God out of IK. What is with this mentality anyway. Why is there a need to love or hate leadership, IMHO that below average thinking affecting every Pakistani. Get out of this rut, there has to be some love or hatred

Kisi ki TC karna bahut zaruri hay kiya ? Nahi, but it is coz that is what our culture is about. Instead of being the leader yourself, Pakistanis start following, start infatuating, start admiring, start idolizing someone up there in the top ranks, whether military or civil. What the hell is this mindset ?

So if some likeable COAS comes up, Pakistanis will join " COAS Lovers club" ? Just like Bilawal Lovers club
Acha chalo, I put forward my point in a lighter mood.

Who in the first place is asking you to worship Generals ? In Pakistan military, you know what hold value ? Its the Regiment, the unit, the Paltan, the battalion. You know why ? Because that's all what remains, the unit remains, commander go after every few years. Soldiers dont think of commanders that way, because soldiers know they will get rotated. Sometimes they will get commanders they like, other times they won't. So till you get a COAS of your choice, maintain your stance.

You love armed forces but not the generals, bhai, ok i won't laugh sorry. Dislike Generals, it wont make any difference to the Generals or to GHQ or to the troops. So please, get out of this rut.

You can clearly see that COAS is now coming after IK through the doings of PTI workers. The pretext has been set through a plan. Army knows that IK will never stop talking about Army, like it or not, a bullet awaits him probably.

As for the steps I talked, military has been close to civilians and comes even closer due during any calamity or disaster or war or even in peace. So Military does the welfare part. Some good things do become part of culture. This is why I open topics related to military since I have seen many aspects of culture, but civilians generally and civilians on PDF have not.

Pakistan needs a strong operational system to the run the country which can stand adjacent to the military. That system is not law, its not politics, its not bureaucracy even. Its not IK even, coz that dumbo has made too many enemies within Pakistan when he is not in a position of power.

 

[Signalian]

@Signalian
seriously do you want your Corps commander focusing on how to wage war against India as opposed to fighting mob of internal citizens ?

Next will be molvis coming on the roads, wouldn't you want DG Rangers in action, he is of same rank as CC. Rangers picked up IK but the mob came to Army.

What he should have done was get all the soldiers he can muster, setup a long line of armed soldiers like the colonial era British army and open fire over anyone coming 1km of the CC house.


Since Kashmir and Afghanistan are a no go, ab log hi reh gaye hain marnay kay liye. Kuch dinon mai woh bhi hatyaar utha lain gai jub mulk default hoga. Uskay baad sab bech kar Dubai settle hojana.

You can stick to your fantasy hoping it comes true in your case only.

Has the COAS or establishment considered that the goal of the west is not to kill or remove Imran Khan, but to bankrupt and split the country apart on ethnic lines?

The west, like the Indians did in East Pakistan, are playing the long game. They know that:

1. Imran is the most popular leader and was increasing ethnic cohesion
2. Has support from other disenfranchised ethnicities like Pashtuns, Baloch, Gilgit
3. Has support from youth which stops brain drain
3. Removing him will upset those groups and cause anarchy
4. It will revive separatists in KPK
5. They know PDM can't run the economy and will bankrupt country
6. Imran was increasing exports & remittances to finally get rid of IMF, which would mean an independent & strong Pakistan. Something unacceptable to the west
7. Stronger economy means stronger military

It's easy to see why the west wants Imran Khan gone. What is difficult to understand, however, is why the establishment blindly follows its dictation even when it will bankrupt, destroy and split the country apart? Why do they follow if it means firing on your own? Who or what is the establishment protecting if it's not Pakistan or its people?

Do the COAS or Corp Commanders have visas and flight tickets ready to escape with when all of this is said and done? By your admission, it's clear their loyalty is not to Pakistan. Bajwa didn't remove Imran Khan because he was going to destroy Pakistan. Bajwa removed Imran Khan because he wasn't going to let the establishment destroy Pakistan!

The west has asked the establishment to do this because they know that if Pakistani's are asked to jump off the bridge, they are stupid enough to do it.

If you think that military is dictated by west in Pakistan, you are naive. Some other departments and all political parties are involved.

 

[xyxmt]

if Army does not change its behavior I can assure you there will be a large scale mutiny inside Army and lot of blood will be spilled. 80% Pakistanis support PTI and this is same across all departments.

 

[Zibago]

You made it too easy so don't scowl at me
No im serious, dont get angry at me.

CC house in cantt, some cantts are mixed, others are not. Battle Axe Div units are has been moved across airport and Askari X, almost adjacent to DHA-8. Similarly, most units of westridge Pindi have moved near Golra more near EME-C, since Pindi is also an mixed cantt, apart from Chaklala.

Rangers have a SF wing, trained by SSG, that SF wing was involved. Don't undermine Rangers.

And re-iterating the same point again, Military leadership is not bothered about civilian opinion, but the commanders of many Garrisons are, so if you steps taken in some cantts where military and civil work together for public, the orders are coming from Flag staff house of the area.

Flag staff house, is where the highest ranked military officer of the area resides.

No one asked PDF members to make demi-gods out of top brass or COAS the way they have made a demi-God out of IK. What is with this mentality anyway. Why is there a need to love or hate leadership, IMHO that below average thinking affecting every Pakistani. Get out of this rut, there has to be some love or hatred

Kisi ki TC karna bahut zaruri hay kiya ? Nahi, but it is coz that is what our culture is about. Instead of being the leader yourself, Pakistanis start following, start infatuating, start admiring, start idolizing someone up there in the top ranks, whether military or civil. What the hell is this mindset ?

So if some likeable COAS comes up, Pakistanis will join " COAS Lovers club" ? Just like Bilawal Lovers club
Acha chalo, I put forward my point in a lighter mood.

Who in the first place is asking you to worship Generals ? In Pakistan military, you know what hold value ? Its the Regiment, the unit, the Paltan, the battalion. You know why ? Because that's all what remains, the unit remains, commander go after every few years. Soldiers dont think of commanders that way, because soldiers know they will get rotated. Sometimes they will get commanders they like, other times they won't. So till you get a COAS of your choice, maintain your stance.

You love armed forces but not the generals, bhai, ok i won't laugh sorry. Dislike Generals, it wont make any difference to the Generals or to GHQ or to the troops. So please, get out of this rut.

You can clearly see that COAS is now coming after IK through the doings of PTI workers. The pretext has been set through a plan. Army knows that IK will never stop talking about Army, like it or not, a bullet awaits him probably.

As for the steps I talked, military has been close to civilians and comes even closer due during any calamity or disaster or war or even in peace. So Military does the welfare part. Some good things do become part of culture. This is why I open topics related to military since I have seen many aspects of culture, but civilians generally and civilians on PDF have not.

Pakistan needs a strong operational system to the run the country which can stand adjacent to the military. That system is not law, its not politics, its not bureaucracy even. Its not IK even, coz that dumbo has made too many enemies within Pakistan when he is not in a position of power.

Lets just say where the military has took Pakistan there is no coming back even if the COAS changes and all that has longterm dangerous consequences for the country as a whole as for Imran Khan well given that we are staring down the barrel of default with morons like Dar at the helm while PTI is the most popular party in Pakistan should be cause of atleast unease for the top brass
Remember a hard default will cause a bit of a stir that wont be easily handled in a country like Pakistan

But I am sure military minds are aware of what happens when a country as big as Pakistan defaults and people suffer

 

[Signalian]

Lets just say where the military has took Pakistan there is no coming back even if the COAS changes and all that has longterm dangerous consequences for the country as a whole as for Imran Khan well given that we are staring down the barrel of default with morons like Dar at the helm while PTI is the most popular party in Pakistan should be cause of atleast unease for the top brass
Remember a hard default will cause a bit of a stir that wont be easily handled in a country like Pakistan

But I am sure military minds are aware of what happens when a country as big as Pakistan defaults and people suffer

A lot could depend upon the COAS, the next COAS, but it’s the imminent danger to IK due to anti army stance that’s dangerous. This has escalated to another level.