LHC to hear arguments on petition against holding of Aurat March

[jamahir]

Great!! Hes another addition to your "progressive" movement then.

Hardly.

His types will be Regressive especially regarding women.

But why limit this statement to just one extremist anti-Pakistan movement? Will you now also claim the same for ISIS, al-Qaeda and Communists? I'm sure you would.

Why do you say that the Leftists are anti-Pakistanis / anti-Pakistan ??

 

[Desert Fox]

Hardly.

His types will be Regressive especially regarding women.

On the contrary if he's already accepted homosexuality feminism is a piece of cake.

Why do you say that the Leftists are anti-Pakistanis / anti-Pakistan ??

Because leftism by its nature is anti-Pakistan. That shouldn't even be a question.

 

[Yankee-stani]

People don't understand the dangerous effects of what we are up against.

This is a well articulated, well funded, well planned and well executed cultural/ideological war machine we are up against.

It has infiltrated the most vulnerable and impressionable segments of our society and will rot it inside-out.

@Desert Fox @313ghazi The problem like I said most people are herds be it in the west or east, sadly even people who know this cant do much not enough influence or just lack the expression to do it.The Elite in most modern society's are more interested in keeping power in their hands degenrate thoughts keeps the public in mold

Can you give proof of such an example or did you just concoct this for making a strawman argument?

And secondly, you think these rich elite class aunties care about rape when they're busy abusing underage maid girls from impoverished village families?

Of course not they are too busy being goody toady shoes for imperialism as usual.

The matter of fact is that what you consider "social impurity" comes from the freedom and rights of women.

If you refuse to give them their rights and break social pressurizing norms, you won't see "social impurity" or empowered women. You will only have domestic violence issues and oppression.

Look at west. Sure, they have "free'er; socially impure" people, but at the same time they have empowered women too who are taking the country forward.

This is the result of freedom.



You can quote those placards as long as you like. I will keep quoting Jinnah.

As Jinnah said, imprisoning women in a house is a crime against humanity, read it again and again.


Those placards which make you so insecure have one underlying principle; stop the objectification of women.

Stop treating them as sexual objects.
Stop treating them as your properties.
Stop social norms connecting women with biased norms.


This is what a Pakistani man has come to; someone who's supposed to be a protector, maintainer, and defender, is being insecure, spiteful, frightened that the very gender they oppress is speaking out.

Why are you bringing irrelevant arguments into this discourse? I am being vocal against immortality part only.

Refer back to my views in this post: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/lhc-...an-on-aurat-march.654618/page-4#post-12108935

The lawyer in question have made the right move. Aurat March is increasingly anti-Islamic in its expressions lately - cannot be allowed to continue.

Please, quote this as well.

“No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women are side by side with you. We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of the houses as prisoners. There is no sanction anywhere for the deplorable condition in which our women have to live.”

- Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Quaid e Azam

Pakistan was indeed found on an Islamic identity, but it was never found as an Islamic state.



Sorry but whose life we are we risking by letting women live?

Jinnah came from different era the west was much different in the 1940s, tho the 1920s was the start of all the mess it wasnt until like the 1960s "Sexual" Revolution when the crap hit the fan there in terms of culture and society .That era was the real end of the traditional western culture , I would say if Jinnah or heck Ataturk which many psuedo-liberals often cite in Pakistan for social liberlaization, would be disgusted at the modern day west and anything it stands for.

Are you really incapable of distinguishing women rights (i.e. allowing women to work) from promoting vulgarity in the Public? These two are separate issues.

Quaid-e-Azam was not on good terms with his daughter Dina Wadia for marrying a Parsi. She made a choice, her father made as well.

Being Muslims, WE cannot endorse anti-Islamic expressions.

Pakistan officially identify itself as an Islamic state, mind you. Arguments to the contrary are pointless.

Pakistan is just confused is it a "Islamic Republic" or a state ran by colonial brown sahibs

Again:

Did Iqbal & MA Jinnah have upper class mentally colonized aunties asking for "khana khud garam karlo" whilst abusing underage maids in their own homes in mind when they were fighting for Pakistan.

Those same upper class elite will never care they will just call you "backwards"

For example, something as simple as practicing Doctory without the family saying "Oh, you should quit work now and settle down".

Or choosing one's mate without the fear of honor killing.

These are very real issues.



I know that NGOs like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are agents of Western imperialism but I don't think people like Arooj are their local faces.



Wasn't there a mullah in Pakistan who was caught with his male lover ?? I read it a while ago.



She may have empathy with some of the more humanitarian demands of PTM but that doesn't mean she is their agent.

For example, "The humiliation of locals at army checkpoints in the Pashtun areas must be ended".

In a long interview she said that her group looks up to the late Mashal Khan. What is wrong in that ??



Cool now ??

Why blame me if you have nothing to contribute to the forum and to society ??

And for next time, feel free to put me on ignore.

Again I ask you are you a geniune leftist?, did you know the USSR with exception of Lenin and and brief rule of degenrate Bolsehviks who were thankfully purged by Stalin was heavy on Social Conservatism to foster in Soviet Society that women were encouraged to have kids to help spread the "revolution", Homos were purged and sent to "re-education" and part of the legacy is why most Russians abhor Homo f..gots despite their liberal fifth column clamouring for it since naive Gorbachev and agent Yeltsin trying to push Russians to support homos, heck its not just old USSR but pretty much all the Eastern Bloc I miss the good ole school leftys they were woke on a lot of things part of reason I became more opposed to Capitalism in recent times

Hardly.

His types will be Regressive especially regarding women.



Why do you say that the Leftists are anti-Pakistanis / anti-Pakistan ??

I think certain "ultra leftists" who want to make everything a utopia will willingly side with American Imperialism just cause a certain govt may not be too privy to Social Liberalism

On the contrary if he's already accepted homosexuality feminism is a piece of cake.



Because leftism by its nature is anti-Pakistan. That shouldn't even be a question.

I say neo liberals are the biggest enemies no 1-they got the backing of the biggest and largest Capitalist Power in the world the USA, no2.their soft power is much stronger certain leftists are okay mostly the ones in Europe who are socially conservative but economically more towards the left I think in general most people are like that anywhere in the world

 

[Maddy987654321]

Published Feb 25, 2020 07:04am
LHC moved for permanent ban on Aurat March
WAJIH AHMAD SHEIKH
LAHORE: Lahore High Court Chief Justice Mamoon Rashid Sheikh on Monday issued notices to the federal and provincial governments on an application seeking a permanent ban on upcoming ‘Aurat March’ for being an “anti-state” and “un-Islamic” activity.

“Prima facie the Aurat March is misdirection and a failed attempt to raise grave issues commonly faced by women,” claimed applicant Advocate Azhar Siddique, who agitated the matter by filing a civil miscellaneous application in his already pending petition for enforcement of new social media regulations.

The lawyer stated that hundreds of women would once again march with placards displaying various messages that allegedly manifest anarchy and vulgarity. He argued that by openly displaying their aspirations, during the last year’s march, some women, men and gay persons dared take a step ahead in creating an environment that was traditionally, culturally and morally less binding upon them.

Advocate Siddique contended that the basic purpose of women’s day was to recognise and appreciate women for their achievements as well as solidarity with women struggling all over the world against cruelty, discrimination, ignorance and domestic violence.

Chief Justice Sheikh issues notices to federal, provincial governments

However, he said, the Aurat March, this year scheduled for March 8, attracted scores of women from various walks of life also garnered criticism on social media due to the fact that there were always offensive messages on placards.

He alleged that the women march enjoyed funding from various anti-state parties which wanted to create anarchy among the masses. Apparently, he claimed, the Pashtun Tahaffuz Movement and its allies had a hidden agenda and were the major stakeholders in this march.

Besides enforcement of the social media regulations recently introduced by the government, the lawyer also requested the court to strictly regulate and silence forever ‘anti-state’ activities such as the Aurat March.

Taking up another application by a digital rights activist against the new social media regulations, Chief Justice Sheikh also issued notices to the federal government and other authorities. He sought the appearance of Federal Investigation Agency’s director Lahore and DIG (operations) at the next hearing on Feb 27 to learn about the steps being taken for implementation of the impugned regulations.

Advocate Usama Khawar Ghumman appeared on behalf of activist Ms Jannat Ali, who filed the application in the main petition moved by Advocate Siddique in favour of the new regulations.

The counsel argued that the impugned rules were unconstitutional as they indiscriminately violated constitutionally secured freedom of speech and expression, right to access to information and right to privacy of all citizens.

To a court’s query about the locus standi of the applicant to agitate the matter, Mr Ghumman said the applicant being a digital rights activist and active user of social media was deeply concerned about the chilling effect that such overregulation was having on her online speech and fundamental freedoms.

Advocate Siddique also opposed the competency of the application by the activist and urged the court to dismiss the same.

Mr Ghumman, however, argued that the applicant was concerned about broad discretionary powers given to the national coordinator (a person appointed by the federal government), leaving great room for abuse. He argued that parliament had not given such broad powers to the government itself so it could not delegate such draconian powers to the national coordinator.

The counsel said the Citizens Protection (Against Online Harm) Rules, 2020 prima facie appeared to be illegal and in conflict with the fundamental rights of citizens enshrined in the Constitution.

Published in Dawn, February 25th, 2020

https://www.dawn.com/news/1536477

Totally internal issue of Pakistan but I think LHC gave right verdict.

 

[LeGenD]

Everytime I ask about their rights, people hide behind the cover of Islam.

How about getting to the point, and mentioning these rights.

Here:

Surah Al-Baqarah (https://quran.com/2)
Surah An-Nisa (https://quran.com/4)

Study both and learn from them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Published Feb 25, 2020 07:04am
LHC moved for permanent ban on Aurat March
WAJIH AHMAD SHEIKH
LAHORE: Lahore High Court Chief Justice Mamoon Rashid Sheikh on Monday issued notices to the federal and provincial governments on an application seeking a permanent ban on upcoming ‘Aurat March’ for being an “anti-state” and “un-Islamic” activity.

“Prima facie the Aurat March is misdirection and a failed attempt to raise grave issues commonly faced by women,” claimed applicant Advocate Azhar Siddique, who agitated the matter by filing a civil miscellaneous application in his already pending petition for enforcement of new social media regulations.

The lawyer stated that hundreds of women would once again march with placards displaying various messages that allegedly manifest anarchy and vulgarity. He argued that by openly displaying their aspirations, during the last year’s march, some women, men and gay persons dared take a step ahead in creating an environment that was traditionally, culturally and morally less binding upon them.

Advocate Siddique contended that the basic purpose of women’s day was to recognise and appreciate women for their achievements as well as solidarity with women struggling all over the world against cruelty, discrimination, ignorance and domestic violence.

Chief Justice Sheikh issues notices to federal, provincial governments

However, he said, the Aurat March, this year scheduled for March 8, attracted scores of women from various walks of life also garnered criticism on social media due to the fact that there were always offensive messages on placards.

He alleged that the women march enjoyed funding from various anti-state parties which wanted to create anarchy among the masses. Apparently, he claimed, the Pashtun Tahaffuz Movement and its allies had a hidden agenda and were the major stakeholders in this march.

Besides enforcement of the social media regulations recently introduced by the government, the lawyer also requested the court to strictly regulate and silence forever ‘anti-state’ activities such as the Aurat March.

Taking up another application by a digital rights activist against the new social media regulations, Chief Justice Sheikh also issued notices to the federal government and other authorities. He sought the appearance of Federal Investigation Agency’s director Lahore and DIG (operations) at the next hearing on Feb 27 to learn about the steps being taken for implementation of the impugned regulations.

Advocate Usama Khawar Ghumman appeared on behalf of activist Ms Jannat Ali, who filed the application in the main petition moved by Advocate Siddique in favour of the new regulations.

The counsel argued that the impugned rules were unconstitutional as they indiscriminately violated constitutionally secured freedom of speech and expression, right to access to information and right to privacy of all citizens.

To a court’s query about the locus standi of the applicant to agitate the matter, Mr Ghumman said the applicant being a digital rights activist and active user of social media was deeply concerned about the chilling effect that such overregulation was having on her online speech and fundamental freedoms.

Advocate Siddique also opposed the competency of the application by the activist and urged the court to dismiss the same.

Mr Ghumman, however, argued that the applicant was concerned about broad discretionary powers given to the national coordinator (a person appointed by the federal government), leaving great room for abuse. He argued that parliament had not given such broad powers to the government itself so it could not delegate such draconian powers to the national coordinator.

The counsel said the Citizens Protection (Against Online Harm) Rules, 2020 prima facie appeared to be illegal and in conflict with the fundamental rights of citizens enshrined in the Constitution.

Published in Dawn, February 25th, 2020

https://www.dawn.com/news/1536477

InshALLAH Ban will be issued

I wish Shoot at sight.

Extreme measures aren't necessary. The court could issue a directive asking for publicly displayed posters to take into account an audience that includes children and refrain from overt/implied sexual statements.

Excellent move.

This 'Aurat March' has done nothing but promoted open sexual lewdness and destruction of the family. Without healthy family you cannot have a healthy society.

A healthy family and healthy society also require that women in the family are given the freedom to say 'no', pursue careers, discuss issues with their husbands regarding workload sharing etc.

Where I agree with you is that some of the posters that had overt sexual themes should be banned, but the Aurat March in itself is a good initiative that needs some direction and focus on issues such as domestic violence, freedom of choice in terms of career, life choices etc.

But Musharraf had spoken about Enlightened Moderation.

Musharraf spoke of enlightened moderation, Imran Khan has essentially argued for something similar in terms of replicating 'The State of Medina'.

No two modern Pakistani leaders have arguably been as outspoken about moderation in religion, equal rights for everyone regardless of faith, tolerance & respect for one another (as have Musharraf and Imran Khan) and yet no two modern Pakistani leaders have been as despised by Pakistan's so called 'liberal elite' as Musharraf and Imran Khan.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

The suffering of women in Pakistan and raising voice for them is just.

But not by playing into hands of powers who have ulterior motives of eroding Pakistan's religious and family values.

It is incumbent upon all Pakistanis religious and non religious to stand against these azad khayal NGO dollar consuming useful idiots. We cannot let outsiders highjack the cause of the Pakistani women.

 

[Lincoln]

Again:

Did Iqbal & MA Jinnah have upper class mentally colonized aunties asking for "khana khud garam karlo" whilst abusing underage maids in their own homes in mind when they were fighting for Pakistan.

Great!! Hes another addition to your "progressive" movement then.


But why limit this statement to just one extremist anti-Pakistan movement? Will you now also claim the same for ISIS, al-Qaeda and Communists? I'm sure you would.

Why are you labelling women out to raise awareness on their rights as "privileged aunties who hit their maids," such peiviledged aunties are really the result of everything but feminism where they think they are above everyone and own the house.

The suffering of women in Pakistan and raising voice for them is just.

But not by playing into hands of powers who have ulterior motives of eroding Pakistan's religious and family values.

It is incumbent upon all Pakistanis religious and non religious to stand against these azad khayal NGO dollar consuming useful idiots. We cannot let outsiders highjack the cause of the Pakistani women.

With respect, there is no cause for the Pakistani women to begin with. This is the first, and with our attitude, it will be last.

@Desert Fox @313ghazi The problem like I said most people are herds be it in the west or east, sadly even people who know this cant do much not enough influence or just lack the expression to do it.The Elite in most modern society's are more interested in keeping power in their hands degenrate thoughts keeps the public in mold


Of course not they are too busy being goody toady shoes for imperialism as usual.







Jinnah came from different era the west was much different in the 1940s, tho the 1920s was the start of all the mess it wasnt until like the 1960s "Sexual" Revolution when the crap hit the fan there in terms of culture and society .That era was the real end of the traditional western culture , I would say if Jinnah or heck Ataturk which many psuedo-liberals often cite in Pakistan for social liberlaization, would be disgusted at the modern day west and anything it stands for.



Pakistan is just confused is it a "Islamic Republic" or a state ran by colonial brown sahibs




Those same upper class elite will never care they will just call you "backwards"

Again I ask you are you a geniune leftist?, did you know the USSR with exception of Lenin and and brief rule of degenrate Bolsehviks who were thankfully purged by Stalin was heavy on Social Conservatism to foster in Soviet Society that women were encouraged to have kids to help spread the "revolution", Homos were purged and sent to "re-education" and part of the legacy is why most Russians abhor Homo f..gots despite their liberal fifth column clamouring for it since naive Gorbachev and agen Yeltsin trying to push Russians to support homos, heck its not just old USSR but pretty much all the Eastern Bloc I miss the good ole school leftys they were woke on a lot of things part of reason I became more opposed to Capitalism in recent times



I think certain "ultra leftists" who want to make everything a utopia will willingly side with American Imperialism just cause a certain govt may not be too privy to Social Liberalism



I say neo liberals are the biggest enemies no 1-they got the backing of the biggest and largest Capitalist Power in the world the USA, no2.their soft power is much stronger certain leftists are okay mostly the ones in Europe who are socially conservative but economically more towards the left I think in general most people are like that anywhere in the world

Quoting only your answer to me. Actually, Jinnah knew the western lifestyle. I don't say "well ahead of their times" for no reason.

Jinnah is also quoted as saying that women must be equals to men, side by side, in the workplace and everywhere, but at the same time he said not in the sense of west, but also at the same time he also called our societal customs for women as evil.

From personal accounts, Jinnah was there for the suffrage movement when it came up in Britain.

His point was on the target: let people be free, but empower women for equal rights, educate, let them be free to take decisions, and idealize the moderate concept.

Totally internal issue of Pakistan but I think LHC gave right verdict.

Well, here you go. Some things that RSS fundamentalists and far right in Pakistan can agree on.

Exerting control on women.


Why are people so afraid of this march?

Extreme measures aren't necessary. The court could issue a directive asking for publicly displayed posters to take into account an audience that includes children and refrain from overt/implied sexual statements.


A healthy family and healthy society also require that women in the family are given the freedom to say 'no', pursue careers, discuss issues with their husbands regarding workload sharing etc.

Where I agree with you is that some of the posters that had overt sexual themes should be banned, but the Aurat March in itself is a good initiative that needs some direction and focus on issues such as domestic violence, freedom of choice in terms of career, life choices etc.


Musharraf spoke of enlightened moderation, Imran Khan has essentially argued for something similar in terms of replicating 'The State of Medina'.

No two modern Pakistani leaders have arguably been as outspoken about moderation in religion, equal rights for everyone regardless of faith, tolerance & respect for one another (as have Musharraf and Imran Khan) and yet no two modern Pakistani leaders have been as despised by Pakistan's so called 'liberal elite' as Musharraf and Imran Khan.

I think Government should approach the directors and offer to make a movement which has representatives of both genders and solves the issues of both genders, and reduces the bias between both genders, and the ridiculous norms against both genders.

We need both parts of society to work together on this and tackle it.

 

[Maddy987654321]

Well, here you go. Some things that RSS fundamentalists and far right in Pakistan can agree on.

Exerting control on women.


Why are people so afraid of this march?

Think rationally and practically what is the need of this aurat March?

 

[Lincoln]

@Desert Fox @313ghazi The problem like I said most people are herds be it in the west or east, sadly even people who know this cant do much not enough influence or just lack the expression to do it.The Elite in most modern society's are more interested in keeping power in their hands degenrate thoughts keeps the public in mold


Of course not they are too busy being goody toady shoes for imperialism as usual.







Jinnah came from different era the west was much different in the 1940s, tho the 1920s was the start of all the mess it wasnt until like the 1960s "Sexual" Revolution when the crap hit the fan there in terms of culture and society .That era was the real end of the traditional western culture , I would say if Jinnah or heck Ataturk which many psuedo-liberals often cite in Pakistan for social liberlaization, would be disgusted at the modern day west and anything it stands for.



Pakistan is just confused is it a "Islamic Republic" or a state ran by colonial brown sahibs




Those same upper class elite will never care they will just call you "backwards"

Again I ask you are you a geniune leftist?, did you know the USSR with exception of Lenin and and brief rule of degenrate Bolsehviks who were thankfully purged by Stalin was heavy on Social Conservatism to foster in Soviet Society that women were encouraged to have kids to help spread the "revolution", Homos were purged and sent to "re-education" and part of the legacy is why most Russians abhor Homo f..gots despite their liberal fifth column clamouring for it since naive Gorbachev and agen Yeltsin trying to push Russians to support homos, heck its not just old USSR but pretty much all the Eastern Bloc I miss the good ole school leftys they were woke on a lot of things part of reason I became more opposed to Capitalism in recent times



I think certain "ultra leftists" who want to make everything a utopia will willingly side with American Imperialism just cause a certain govt may not be too privy to Social Liberalism



I say neo liberals are the biggest enemies no 1-they got the backing of the biggest and largest Capitalist Power in the world the USA, no2.their soft power is much stronger certain leftists are okay mostly the ones in Europe who are socially conservative but economically more towards the left I think in general most people are like that anywhere in the world

Neo extreme Liberalism doesn't exist in Pakistan.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Neo extreme Liberalism doesn't exist in Pakistan.

It does exist among the elite and upper classes of society and gradually will trickle down to the lower classes thats what happens

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So where is MA Jinnah supporting a parade of degenerates asking to normalize homosexuality and sexual lewdness? Didn't know that was Pakistan's basis for existence.

Pakistan's basis for existence was that Pakistani Muslims could practice their faith (regardless of sect) without any concern or prejudice. Jinnah never said, nor was it the intent of Pakistan, for Muslims to turn into Sanghis and intolerant, regressive mobs who refuse to let other Muslims/non-Muslims express their views or live their life as they see fit.

The point of a Muslim State was that no one would burn Muslim mosques, or lynch Muslims for eating beef, or fasting. The point was not for Muslims to then turn around and refuse to respect the views and life choices of other Pakistanis that don't share their religious or cultural beliefs.

 

[El Sidd]

Who funds these campaigns for Salem Bibis?

Are these the tax evading beauty salon owners protesting new tax laws?

If one of the women come wearing a Hijab or a Burqa, can they be thrown away in Jails for maligning the soft image of the country?

 

[Lincoln]

Think rationally and practically what is the need of this aurat March?

1. Wage gaps.
2. Societal norms which don't allow, or pressurize women, to not be career oriented despite what she wants.
3. The idea in society that women are property of men; husband should control her wife; stuff like marital rape is normalized.
4. Domestic violence is very wide spread. Specially in lower strata of society.
5. The idea that women are sexual objects, that they must be covered from head to toe or locked away in homes, because otherwise being the sexual objects they are, they may lure the opposite gender.
6. Women are not empowered, they are nurtured and also natured to be ready for a domestic life. Roles of leadership, science and such are not considered for them.

Need more?

Who funds these campaigns for Salem Bibis?

Are these the tax evading beauty salon owners protesting new tax laws?

If one of the women come wearing a Hijab or a Burqa, can they be thrown away in Jails for maligning the soft image of the country?

You don't need any funding to get placards, markers, a speaker, and to walk out of your house.

 

[LeGenD]

Extreme measures aren't necessary. The court could issue a directive asking for publicly displayed posters to take into account an audience that includes children and refrain from overt/implied sexual statements.


A healthy family and healthy society also require that women in the family are given the freedom to say 'no', pursue careers, discuss issues with their husbands regarding workload sharing etc.

Where I agree with you is that some of the posters that had overt sexual themes should be banned, but the Aurat March in itself is a good initiative that needs some direction and focus on issues such as domestic violence, freedom of choice in terms of career, life choices etc.


Musharraf spoke of enlightened moderation, Imran Khan has essentially argued for something similar in terms of replicating 'The State of Medina'.

No two modern Pakistani leaders have arguably been as outspoken about moderation in religion, equal rights for everyone regardless of faith, tolerance & respect for one another (as have Musharraf and Imran Khan) and yet no two modern Pakistani leaders have been as despised by Pakistan's so called 'liberal elite' as Musharraf and Imran Khan.

Read this article: https://www.dawn.com/news/1469815

Aurat March initiative is giving space and platform to advocates of immorality who perceive all manner of social constructs (Islamic and otherwise) to create a functioning society as instruments of patriarchy. This is an utterly misleading narrative and should be nipped in the bud.