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Chakar The Great

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I HOPE regular readers will forgive me for sounding like a broken record: this must be the umpteenth time I’m writing about a normalisation of Indo-Pak ties.

Obviously, this must seem like a bad time to suggest that the two countries should live like well-behaved neighbours, and not like adolescent hooligans throwing rocks to smash each other’s windows. Of course, no time is the right time to advocate sanity in South Asia.

Each time I have written on this subject, I have been subjected to a barrage from both sides of the border. Indian readers immediately bring up the generals and the jihadists. Pakistanis recall Indian perfidy and the refusal to hold a UN-mandated plebiscite in Kashmir.

Now Modi and his Hindutva have pre-empted the debate by a constitutional change revoking India-held Kashmir’s autonomous status. And as they calculated, after token international criticism, the world has moved on, its brief attention span diverted by other crises, principally the Covid-19 pandemic.

No time is the right time to advocate sanity in South Asia.

At the risk of more brickbats, let me say that while I admire the courage and resilience shown by Kashmiris in their fight for freedom, some priorities should be questioned. Should the rights of around 15 million supersede those of over 1.5 billion living in South Asia? The stand-off over Kashmir has rendered Saarc, the regional bloc, completely redundant. Tourism and trade are virtually non-existent, and in the Pakistan-India context, even cultural visits are met with hostility.

Let me repeat: Pakistan should certainly support the Kashmiri cause diplomatically and morally. But it has gained nothing through its previous interventions. While many blame Zulfikar Ali Bhutto for the 1965 and 1971 wars, the fact is that generals were in charge in both conflicts.

There are two broad strands within the Kashmir movement. One, which is supported by the Pakistani establishment, wants the Valley to become part of Pakistan. The other one, consisting mostly of young Kashmiris who are dying as they face the vast Indian security apparatus, want independence. They argue that it makes little sense to go from subjugation under India to living under Pakistani rule.

We are not in a position to force a diplomatic solution. India is just too big and powerful for other countries to antagonise. Its credentials — even under Narendra Modi — make it easy for it to counter the diplomatic efforts of an establishment-dominated Pakistan. Even our closest friends have steered clear of taking sides, and advised us to seek a bilateral dialogue.

Apart from the more obvious dimension of the conflict over land, people and resources, the two countries carry a lot of historical baggage to the negotiating table, should they ever get there. For India, the memories of centuries of Afghan raids and Mughal rule that destroyed temples and defeated Hindu armies have been rekindled by the Hindutva movement.

For many Muslims of South Asia, even though many are descended from Hindus who converted to Islam, one Muslim soldier is equal to 10 Hindus. And since they ruled much of India for centuries, they feel a misplaced sense of superiority.

And yet, despite the years of fighting and bickering, we do need to put the past behind and move on. This is easier said than done, I know, but it has to be done nevertheless.

For Pakistan, the gains of a rapprochement would be enormous. Nawaz Sharif, being a businessman, recognised this, but his peacemaking efforts were torpedoed by both the establishment and Imran Khan. It’s hard to separate the two. Remember the PTI campaign slogan of ‘Jo Modi ka yaar hai, ghaddar hai’ (‘Modi’s friend is a traitor’)?

But you don’t have to be a businessman to understand that trade and tourism have always boosted GDP and increased employment. And while India has a far larger economy, its exporters, too, would benefit. Its military would no longer have to sustain a vast presence in disputed areas, and diplomatically, too, it could claim much of the credit for reducing tensions between the two nuclear-armed neighbours.

All this goes against the grain of current thinking: the public and the media have been brainwashed into accepting the ongoing hostility as normal. But few other conflicts have lasted as long, and caused so much unnecessary bitterness and bloodshed. So the argument for ending it must be made.

I accept that reversing decades-long policies will take exceptional leadership, a quality neither side has displayed thus far. But at least a rational debate should replace the dreary arguments over the past, and who did and said what.

We need to remember that just as Kashmiris have the right to fight for their freedom, the rest of South Asia should have the right to end poverty, disease and ignorance.
 
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Good post and I would have agreed to most of a few years ago but now its like a fictional dream as this hindutva has made almost 80% indians rabid towards Pakistan. For india it's a downhill spiral but thier egos will never let you see thier desperation.
 
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Good post and I would have agreed to most of a few years ago but now its like a fictional dream as this hindutva has made almost 80% indians rabid towards Pakistan. For india it's a downhill spiral but thier egos will never let you see thier desperation.

People don't even want to talk about it. The dividends of peace are massive. Both countries, even the entire subcontinent would become major economic block in no time.
 
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Good post and I would have agreed to most of a few years ago but now its like a fictional dream as this hindutva has made almost 80% indians rabid towards Pakistan. For india it's a downhill spiral but thier egos will never let you see thier desperation.

Agreed, if the Indians adhered to actual liberal and moderate views and treated IOK Kashmiris with Justice and respect, to the point that they were happy to be a part of India, then the prospect of friendship and normalization of Indo-Pak relations was possible. However the Hindutvas have showed the true picture of what lurks and resonates within the Indian psyche. If we try to normalize relations with them now, then we are betraying IOK Kashmiris. We'd be giving them away to pure savages.

I was someone who wanted to make the Line of Control as official border. But not anymore, Indians especially the Hindutvatis are Jahils of the lowest of the low. We need to send their rapist Army to Hell or perish trying. I cannot even begin to comprehend the feelings of IOK Kashmiris subjugated to this oppression.
 
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Peace at cost dignity and honour is no peace but surrender.

What is honour and dignity? Do you remember Treaty of Hudaybiyyah??? Where Muslims could have easily defeated the Kufar ???? Can Pakistan and India not at least have a 10 years peace agreement ??? India to lift curfew in Kashmir, while Pakistan stop exporting terrorism to India.

A peace treaty was drawn up between the two sides. If the Muslims had chosen to fight at that time they would have been victorious, but they wanted to uphold the sanctity of the Ka`bah. The treaty consisted of the following:
1. Both parties would cease hostilities for a period of ten years.
2. The parties would not interfere with the free movement of one another.
3. The Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah upon him) would return that year, but the Muslims would be permitted to enter Makkah the following year.
4. Any Muslim man coming from the Quraysh to join the Muslims would be sent back, but any man going from the Muslims to Quraysh would not be sent back.
5. Any tribes other than the Quraysh that wished to enter an alliance with Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allah upon him) were free to do so, and any that wished to enter an alliance with the Quraysh were free to do so.
 
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What is honour and dignity? Do you remember Treaty of Hudaybiyyah??? Where Muslims could have easily defeated the Kufar ???? Can Pakistan and India not at least have a 10 years peace agreement ??? India to lift curfew in Kashmir, while Pakistan stop exporting terrorism to India.

A peace treaty was drawn up between the two sides. If the Muslims had chosen to fight at that time they would have been victorious, but they wanted to uphold the sanctity of the Ka`bah. The treaty consisted of the following:
1. Both parties would cease hostilities for a period of ten years.
2. The parties would not interfere with the free movement of one another.
3. The Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah upon him) would return that year, but the Muslims would be permitted to enter Makkah the following year.
4. Any Muslim man coming from the Quraysh to join the Muslims would be sent back, but any man going from the Muslims to Quraysh would not be sent back.
5. Any tribes other than the Quraysh that wished to enter an alliance with Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allah upon him) were free to do so, and any that wished to enter an alliance with the Quraysh were free to do so.
Agreed on all parts but we also have to look at who we are trying for peace.
Didn't our Pm called modi multiple times for peace,
Didn't we asked only to lift curfew from jamu Kashmir.
We tried but Indians politics is run on hate towards Pakistan and even if peace is achieved india will do everything to sabotage it because of ego. It take two to tango
 
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Agreed on all parts but we also have to look at who we are trying for peace.
Didn't our Pm called modi multiple times for peace,
Didn't we asked only to lift curfew from jamu Kashmir.
We tried but Indians politics is run on hate towards Pakistan and even if peace is achieved india will do everything to sabotage it because of ego. It take two to tango


Both sides including the military Junta needs to sit down together to reach a treaty, while China and US can be the guaranteer so that no side back tracks. There can be common objectives and a road map to peace.
 
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No,we need to screw off from South Asia sphere and head westward than east politically,socially and economically all forms of peace dividends with India have failed
 
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Sensible post. India and Pakistan need to come together and understand that this small state called Kashmir is hampering the progress of both the countries.
 
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At this time friendly relationship between India and Pakistan is not possible.
But we not doing war so it's not very bad. Situation like this is very good for every one. The systems of govt, politicians ,babus ,army, foreign countries everyone benefiting from current situation. So it difficult to change.

I think politicians will not try to solve because they getting benefit not solveing.
Only if general people start wanting solve and have good relationship with each other then govt will try.
Before seeing this forum I did not knowing what Pakistan people think. I already know many Indian people hate Pakistan.
But after seeing this forum I think India Pakistan people hate each other.

Also you saying true , I also see many people on internet feel it is time for there revenge because there ancestors were done bad things by muslims hundreds of years ago.
 
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Lets be not emotional and be rational. We want peace too peace dividend is great but does India wants peace? How many of our prime minsters have said repeatedly if India takes a step we will take 2 steps to reciprocate. If Europe after loosing millions during the world war can have a peace I can't see why not. India is a big country and they should have a big heart accordingly and let Kashmir to decide their fate as in today's world of internet subjugating Kashmiris' by force is morally corrupt, ethically unjust and putting them in open prison its barbaric like middle ages.
So lets India takes first step and we will throw our borders wide open for you like we did with Sikhs. Now you can come up with million and one excuses not to, its your choice but we all want only one thing let Kashmir to decide their future and then our differences on the rest of issues will disappear over night.
I scratch my head and loosing my hair thinking how on earth country like India can elect fascist person like Modi knowing well his connections with RSS which have almost destroyed any hope of peace between 2 nations of ours and day by day edging towards war instead.
Please stop use of exporting terrorism card as it doesn't cuts any ice any more and its laughable. If India wants peace then take your first step boldly and make a statement we are not going to be indifferent in those circumstances.
 
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