Learning by Doing The Pakistan Army’s Experience with Counterinsurgency

[Jango]

There are 80000 FC personnels in FATA, why they are not sufficient for about 10000 TTP and foreign militants?.....You use air force , Army Aviation, Armored corp and Artillery against regular army in conventional warfare.....While TTP fight in mehsud way i.e ambushes as well as through suicide attacks.....SSG is relevant but not the other units of army and PAF, that can be easily handled by FC and levies if they are well trained and well equipped.

TTP is not doing ambushes, can't you get your head around that? The have whole towns and villages captured with caves running deep into the mountains. Suicide attacks are next to none in the warzone, they don't happen in war areas, it is all battle of max engagement range of 200-300 meter in most cases.

I think you have no idea about the capability of TTP.

PAF is not fighting with america or india, they are few thousands Taliban who use unconventional warfare....Army should be ashamed of itself for not being able to handle talibans without use of air force....Do talibans have air force and tanks?

Again, you have no idea how war is waged and how an enemy is fought.

civilian government can not interfere in army affairs, military operations and drones are completely arm's decisions, it is state within state....

Musharraf sanctioned them, but then onwards when the PPP government came, the civilian side was also glove in hand in this case.

 

[haviZsultan]

Pakistani soldiers have sacrificed much for the Pakistani land. Terrorists have destroyed everything we once owned. FDI (foreign direct investment) is extremely low and Pakistan's economy is almost in ruin. Talibani monkeys will not relent until they impose their idiotic Wahabism on the rest of the population.

We talk about peace with the Taliban but how can there be peace with such barbarians, barbarians which are keen to destroy everything that exists in their own nation.

 

[jaibi]

Pakistani soldiers have sacrificed much for the Pakistani land. Terrorists have destroyed everything we once owned. FDI (foreign direct investment) is extremely low and Pakistan's economy is almost in ruin. Talibani monkeys will not relent until they impose their idiotic Wahabism on the rest of the population.

We talk about peace with the Taliban but how can there be peace with such barbarians, barbarians which are keen to destroy everything that exists in their own nation.

HaviZ, I wanted to tag you into the post too but I kept spelling your name wrong. I hope you have read the report and would love to hear your critique.

 

[qamar1990]

Its better if you dont comment on deep matters of pakistan,

why is it better? becuase your thick headed? or becuase no matter what anybody is going to say you will never agree with them?
seriously get your head out of your *** and stop thinking that pathans are some special who cant be ruled by punjabis, im sure most pakistanis here refraining from saying anything racist about pathans even tho you provoke us here everyday. we know 90 percent of pakistani pathans are nothing like you, a self hating pakistani pathan.

FATA which are beyond your understanding.
Give up your American nationality and come back to pakistan, country needs you.

im not giving up my american nationality.its good to have.
i could do more good for pakistan by being here then staying in pakistan jobless.
its better if i send money home rather than do nothing in pakistan.

 

[jaibi]

@Pak-one, @nuclearpak and @Abu Zolfiqar We are all Pakistanis, I think we can agree upon that and Pak-one we should know that what is happening in FATA is affecting all of Pakistanis. I would just like to state that perhaps we need to keep arguing about the issue so we can synthesis and head towards a solution.

I believe that Pak-one, Abu Zolfiqar and nuclearpak's view about the army maintaining the bases in FATA is a good strategy for after the Talibs are dealt with we would most probably have to deal with an antagonised Afghanistan and for that the PAF and PA need to be at full capabilities in our Northern most sectors. And why should not they be, after all FATA is a part of Pakistan and the army is our national army. Though, a more intelligent use of military power is in order for the battle is for the minds and hearts of the people as well but you need to see the situation in which the army is stuck in: an incompetent and unconcerned provincial and federal government.

Secondly, the FC, most likely with a FATA based security chapter or an independent FATA raised force, is the long term solution for the security of FATA but the army's withdrawal or rather role switch from an engaging to an observing force has to be gradual, not abrupt.

Thirdly, the PAF strikes, planned carefully and with no civilian losses is a huge asset to our armed forces: it is not a battle of egos where we see who has the braver soldier it is about completely dominating the enemy combatants and for that we should use all of our power but yes it has to be intelligent.

Fourthly, in the long term the people of FATA must experience an integration into the mainstream Pakistani society which means for them to experience the present state of civil state and thus the Lashkars and strick tribal divisions would have to be at best managed. This is because we are not only addressing the TTP problem but also the conditions that allow them to infect our regions in the first place.

Let us keep talking and thinking about this as it is for the future of our children and our nation.

Pakistan Zindabad!

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

You people have right to dismiss this video as Taliban propaganda but i have to show you people the horrors of air strikes...this video is of operation rahe e raast in which there was heavy use of air force. Watch it after 6 minute, dead men, women and childern are there after air strike..."collateral damage" is easy to read it in news, difficult to watch.
Operation cleanup of Pak Army against terrorist Taliban 1 - YouTube
@jaibi, @Abu Zolfiqar @nuclearpak

 

[Jango]

You people have right to dismiss this video as Taliban propaganda but i have to show you people the horrors of air strikes...this video is of operation rahe e raast in which there was heavy use of air force. Watch it after 6 minute, dead men, women and childern are there after air strike..."collateral damage" is easy to read it in news, difficult to watch.
Operation cleanup of Pak Army against terrorist Taliban 1 - YouTube
@jaibi, @Abu Zolfiqar @nuclearpak

Maybe the video was joined from two different places? It is a possibility, TTP sc*m are known for doing that.

If it indeed was a PAF airstrike, sad to see, it shouldn't have happened.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

O.k @nuclearpak watch this video, taimi khan claims that only unpopulated mountains are targated in fata,
Pak air force bombing terrorist hideouts in Waziristan - YouTube

The anger of mehsuds is noticeable...

 

[Jango]

O.k @nuclearpak watch this video, taimi khan claims that only unpopulated mountains are targated in fata,
Pak air force bombing terrorist hideouts in Waziristan - YouTube

The anger of mehsuds is noticeable...

Unpopulated mountain pay mar kay achar dalain gay kiya?

There were Taliban targets there and they got killed...PERIOD. In thousands of airstrikes, sh!t happens sometimes, and the family is paid money in return later (I personally know of one case, a Cobra pilot got it wrong). I don't have more time to watch TTP propaganda videos so don't post please.

More TTP propaganda videos will not be allowed on this forum.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Unpopulated mountain pay mar kay achar dalain gay kiya?

There were Taliban targets there and they got killed...PERIOD. In thousands of airstrikes, sh!t happens sometimes, and the family is paid money in return later (I personally know of one case, a Cobra pilot got it wrong). I don't have more time to watch TTP propaganda videos so don't post please.

More TTP propaganda videos will not be allowed on this forum.

O.k but did you watch the full video?. Makeen is a large town, even if there are terrorist hiding there, is it o.k to drop such big bombs on a town. The purpose of sharing such videos was not to spread their propaganda, but make you people realize what happens after air strike...air force is not a suitable option to deal with TTP......we are antagonizing population of FATA...even if a mosque, a building is destroyed by artillary or air strike , these people remember it. I have extensive interactions with wazirs and mehsuds , their views are more or less same like people in the video...due to wrong policies we have antagonized once unpaid defenders of pakistan.

 

[Jango]

O.k but did you watch the full video?. Makeen is a large town, even if there are terrorist hiding there, is it o.k to drop such big bombs on a town. The purpose of sharing such videos was not to spread their propaganda, but make you people realize what happens after air strike...air force is not a suitable option to deal with TTP......we are antagonizing population of FATA...even if a mosque, a building is destroyed by artillary or air strike , these people remember it. I have extensive interactions with wazirs and mehsuds , their views are more or less same like people in the video...due to wrong policies we have antagonized once unpaid defenders of pakistan.

No I did not.

As for the airstrikes, they are a integral part of the operations where the terrain is difficult. When there is a mountain top to be captured, air strikes or artillery is called in to first soften up the enemy. Other option is to lose alot of men by not using airstrikes. I know what I would take.

People of FATA need to understand that there is a war going on, there will be damage in the battlefield, there will be casualties, there will be sacrifices.

Ghar tabah hota hai to fauj bana kay bhi deti hai.

From what I have heard, majority of people are very happy with military ops. People of Bajaur, Swat etc are praising the army.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

No I did not.

As for the airstrikes, they are a integral part of the operations where the terrain is difficult. When there is a mountain top to be captured, air strikes or artillery is called in to first soften up the enemy. Other option is to lose alot of men by not using airstrikes. I know what I would take.

People of FATA need to understand that there is a war going on, there will be damage in the battlefield, there will be casualties, there will be sacrifices.

Ghar tabah hota hai to fauj bana kay bhi deti hai.

From what I have heard, majority of people are very happy with military ops. People of Bajaur, Swat etc are praising the army.

You are misinformed. But you have every reason to doubt my claims untill you see it for yourself or meet the people of those areas directly... you have two choices 1)Believe a guy like me who doesnt like Pak army, has poor patriotic performance, naturally you wont believe me
2) Believe people like abu zolfiqar who has strong military background who would naturally defend army, you would prefer to believe his words even though he doesnt live in FATA, is settled in islamabad and nowadays is in america......i suggest dont believe me, but do remember me after a decade when war would be still going on in FATA...
War is very ugly from close distance.....its horrors cant be realized from islamabad, U.A.E or U.K....

 

[Jango]

You are misinformed. But you have every reason to doubt my claims untill you see it for yourself or meet the people of those areas directly... you have two choices 1)Believe a guy like me who doesnt like Pak army, has poor patriotic performance, naturally you wont believe me
2) Believe people like abu zolfiqar who has strong military background who would naturally defend army, you would prefer to believe his words even though he doesnt live in FATA, is settled in islamabad and nowadays is in america......i suggest dont believe me, but do remember me after a decade when war would be still going on in FATA...
War is very ugly from close distance.....its horrors cant be realized from islamabad, U.A.E or U.K....

I'll believe a guy who was displaced from Malakand, and another one who was displaced from Swat (his village is near Mingora), both in real life, not on forums. A third guy is from Kurrum agency...all praise the army very much for it's role in displacing the TTP and rehabilitating the people.

Ironically, the guy I know who criticizes the army for it's ops is from Mardan!!!

So people like you are very much in the minority.

All people want is that the TTP goes out, Army did that in Swat and Bajaur.

ANd no, I am not misinformed...it is actually you who is being misled into sympathy for the TTP.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I'll believe a guy who was displaced from Malakand, and another one who was displaced from Swat (his village is near Mingora), both in real life, not on forums. A third guy is from Kurrum agency...all praise the army very much for it's role in displacing the TTP and rehabilitating the people.

Ironically, the guy I know who criticizes the army for it's ops is from Mardan!!!

So people like you are very much in the minority.

All people want is that the TTP goes out, Army did that in Swat and Bajaur.

ANd no, I am not misinformed...it is actually you who is being misled into sympathy for the TTP.

It is not black and white situation for me, i do not like TTP but i also fail to feel for army, where does i stand? . One can blame tribals for not able to sort out taliban by themeselves and that taliban arise from their population, but then one has to admit it also that it was army who radicalized their belt in 80s...Then Pakistan u-turn on talibans after 9/11 and then military operation by musharaf in 2004 without studying the history of region and thinking about consequences.
Visit peshawer some times, ask questions from people what they think about taliban and pak army? Even though it is most pakistanized pashtun region, you would hear very unexpected answers. And also hundreds of Taliban videos are openely sold in peshawer. Sit in taxie, the driver might have turned on nasheed of talibans in the car especially if he is from FATA....Many peshaweris would dislike TTP but they would also tell you that they dont like army..

 

[Spring Onion]

It is not black and white situation for me, i do not like TTP but i also fail to feel for army, where does i stand? . One can blame tribals for not able to sort out taliban by themeselves and that taliban arise from their population, but then one has to admit it also that it was army who radicalized their belt in 80s...Then Pakistan u-turn on talibans after 9/11 and then military operation by musharaf in 2004 without studying the history of region and thinking about consequences.
Visit peshawer some times, ask questions from people what they think about taliban and pak army? Even though it is most pakistanized pashtun region, you would hear very unexpected answers. And also hundreds of Taliban videos are openely sold in peshawer. Sit in taxie, the driver might have turned on nasheed of talibans in the car especially if he is from FATA....Many peshaweris would dislike TTP but they would also tell you that they dont like army..

1. They willingly agreed to fight Afghan war.

2. In the process if they were fooled by naswarchi and deobandi extremist mullas thats not my problem.

3. When local Talibans take U-Turn then they should be and anybody who takes U-Turn against the country should be subjected to a bigger U-Turn. They were hired guards and guards are not supposed to attack the owner of the house. If they do so they are part of the thieves . So there should be elimination strike by the owner.

4. I live in Peshawar and i dint find any taxi wala or even rakshaw wala Pukhtun tunes to Taliban kaseedas on tap. on the other hand we are treated to mast pashto songs.