Learning by Doing The Pakistan Army’s Experience with Counterinsurgency

[Jango]

It is not black and white situation for me,

Well then sad for you, bhugto Taliban ko ab.

Even though it is most pakistanized pashtun region, you would hear very unexpected answers. And also hundreds of Taliban videos are openely sold in peshawer. Sit in taxie, the driver might have turned on nasheed of talibans in the car especially if he is from FATA....Many peshaweris would dislike TTP but they would also tell you that they dont like army..

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

1. They willingly agreed to fight Afghan war.

2. In the process if they were fooled by naswarchi and deobandi extremist mullas thats not my problem.

3. When local Talibans take U-Turn then they should be and anybody who takes U-Turn against the country should be subjected to a bigger U-Turn. They were hired guards and guards are not supposed to attack the owner of the house. If they do so they are part of the thieves . So there should be elimination strike by the owner.

4. I live in Peshawar and i dint find any taxi wala or even rakshaw wala Pukhtun tunes to Taliban kaseedas on tap. on the other hand we are treated to mast pashto songs.

I would answer your third point. FATA was completely peaceful before 2004, now look at it today, it is a war zone. Tribals follow pakhtunwali to extreme, you dont order them to hand over foriegn mujahideens , their guests, they knew that they would be sold to america. You glorified these arabs and other foriegn mujahideens in Afghan jihad and ask tribals to give mehman-nawazi to them. Now asking tribals to hand over their holy guests is blasphemy for them....on their refusal you pointed gun at them, which is more insulting for these tribes.....you can not trample tribals especially waziristanis under boots...you dont threaten them....
From noble nek mohammad wazir story of taliban modified into violent episode of dubious abdullah mehsud and so on....this bloody violence would continue for another decade

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Well then sad for you, bhugto Taliban ko ab.

Bugto taliban ko? Haqqani network openly operates in my area..... You think they are some mutant creatures? Just see on your left and right, there would be many people around you with taliban mindset...taliban ko kia bugatna? They live among us.

 

[Jango]

Bugto taliban ko? Haqqani network openly operates in my area..... You think they are some mutant creatures? Just see on your left and right, there would be many people around you with taliban mindset...taliban ko kia bugatna? They live among us.

All of them are the same, a cancer.

Bhugto ka matlab hai , now suffer. Not make them suffer.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

All of them are the same, a cancer.

Bhugto ka matlab hai , now suffer. Not make them suffer.

And ISI support this cancer.

 

[jaibi]

You people have right to dismiss this video as Taliban propaganda but i have to show you people the horrors of air strikes...this video is of operation rahe e raast in which there was heavy use of air force. Watch it after 6 minute, dead men, women and childern are there after air strike..."collateral damage" is easy to read it in news, difficult to watch.
Operation cleanup of Pak Army against terrorist Taliban 1 - YouTube
@jaibi, @Abu Zolfiqar @nuclearpak

I can't operate Youtube but I think I've seen this video, Pak-one. I agree that collateral damage is perhaps sometimes too easy to say and hard to bear; thus, I repeatedly stated 'intelligent' use of force but my disagreement with you was on the pace of the role change that our army must take.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You people have right to dismiss this video as Taliban propaganda but i have to show you people the horrors of air strikes...this video is of operation rahe e raast in which there was heavy use of air force. Watch it after 6 minute, dead men, women and childern are there after air strike..."collateral damage" is easy to read it in news, difficult to watch.
Operation cleanup of Pak Army against terrorist Taliban 1 - YouTube
@jaibi, @Abu Zolfiqar @nuclearpak

they show airplanes then they just show the smoke and some banging noise....no sign of a missile fired at that house

the talebs are also media savy, not just the cave-dwelling RATS that some people believe they only are


and yes - this is propaganda; though i dont disagree that our military caused collateral damage. I'd be lying otherwise

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

they show airplanes then they just show the smoke and some banging noise....no sign of a missile fired at that house

the talebs are also media savy, not just the cave-dwelling RATS that some people believe they only are


and yes - this is propaganda; though i dont disagree that our military caused collateral damage. I'd be lying otherwise

It is hard to capture air force air strikes on phone camera, it is also dangerous. But in their videos effectively shows after-effects of bombardment...there are hundreds of such videos openly sold in KPK...local villagers, not taliban, are shown clearing the debris of buildings to pull out dead buried bodies of men, women and childern after bombardment of their village by PAF....they give interview to the interviewer (i guess taliban).....injured and burned innocent childern are shown who tell that jahaz bombarded.....with no doctor available they just lie crying with pain...if those videos are false propaganda, then who bombarded them?...did taliban force tribals to lie about pak army and air force strikes?..did taliban killed and injured those men, women and kids and tell them to lie?
Like @nuclearpak said what could be the use of bombarding on barren mountains? PAF targets buildings...
Air strikes are barbaric and like drones its use should be condemned.

 

[muse]

An amazing and recent report authored by Shuja Nawaz, an eminent scholar, brother of the late Gen. Asif Nawaz, and in my opinion one of the best analysts of Pakistan especially her military.

Please, read this report and critique. It's not lengthy and highlights the efforts of the Pakistani Army against the terrorist organistaions.

http://www.acus.org/files/publication_pdfs/403/020111_ACUS_Nawaz_PakistanCounterinsurgency.pdf

The report is dated but it makes some important observations - The Pakistan army is unwilling to win this war, as the report highlights the constant complain of the Pakistan Army that the civilian leadership when not aloof, chooses to not engage on "strategic" issues - India remains a concerns that enables the Pakistan army to justify it's unwillingness to secure Pakistan against the Islamist enemy, indeed, it put to lie, the Pakistan Army complain that civilians refuse to engage it on a "strategic" level, perhaps the the substance of the complaint is that "not on the terms of the Pakistan army".

Additionally, while the Pakistan army speak of "strategic" concerns, the creation out of the FC, a military unit heavily influenced by foreigners, appears, apparently, to be lost on the "strategic" thinkers, to the degree that such exist in the Pakistan army.

An awareness on Human Terrain/Human Geography is certainly welcome, however, this development in the case of the Pakistan army, given it anti-intellectual ethic, remains a work in progress, if not entirely suspect. The tension between an academic and real world experience and compulsions of military training have been a problem for Armies such as those of the US as well.

From another angle or perspective, we can assert that the Pakistan government is as much an element of insurgency as is the TTP and the space given to extremist thought in society in general.

I would invite other readers to set straight my understanding with regard to the Pakistan army and the elimination of Islamist combatants, I found it interesting that Mr. Nawaz choose not to dedicate my space to this issue - seems to me that the best COIN or LIC successful policy is the making of large numbers of the enemy, dead - but if that does not find an echo in the Pakistan army, it may be cause for concern.

 

[jaibi]

The report is dated but it makes some important observations - The Pakistan army is unwilling to win this war, as the report highlights the constant complain of the Pakistan Army that the civilian leadership when not aloof, chooses to not engage on "strategic" issues - India remains a concerns that enables the Pakistan army to justify it's unwillingness to secure Pakistan against the Islamist enemy, indeed, it put to lie, the Pakistan Army complain that civilians refuse to engage it on a "strategic" level, perhaps the the substance of the complaint is that "not on the terms of the Pakistan army".

Additionally, while the Pakistan army speak of "strategic" concerns, the creation out of the FC, a military unit heavily influenced by foreigners, appears, apparently, to be lost on the "strategic" thinkers, to the degree that such exist in the Pakistan army.

An awareness on Human Terrain/Human Geography is certainly welcome, however, this development in the case of the Pakistan army, given it anti-intellectual ethic, remains a work in progress, if not entirely suspect. The tension between an academic and real world experience and compulsions of military training have been a problem for Armies such as those of the US as well.

From another angle or perspective, we can assert that the Pakistan government is as much an element of insurgency as is the TTP and the space given to extremist thought in society in general.

I would invite other readers to set straight my understanding with regard to the Pakistan army and the elimination of Islamist combatants, I found it interesting that Mr. Nawaz choose not to dedicate my space to this issue - seems to me that the best COIN or LIC successful policy is the making of large numbers of the enemy, dead - but if that does not find an echo in the Pakistan army, it may be cause for concern.

Your input is appreciated, sir. I must comment that from personal experience with the army that the strategy is changing. The army is deploying psychologists to develop an understanding of the human element in this combat and the priority, at the surface level, seems to be to defeat the Islamist ideology. Secondly, from personal interviews with the LC-128 and IC-46 it seems that the new army cadets are motivated to defeat the terrorists within Pakistan. Now to which degree is it to kill the enemy or the enemy ideology remains to be seen; however, it should be noted that as an organisation it is not so easy to rapidly put theory to practice and in that regard the army seems to be changing its outlook on the whole operation.

It is hard to capture air force air strikes on phone camera, it is also dangerous. But in their videos effectively shows after-effects of bombardment...there are hundreds of such videos openly sold in KPK...local villagers, not taliban, are shown clearing the debris of buildings to pull out dead buried bodies of men, women and childern after bombardment of their village by PAF....they give interview to the interviewer (i guess taliban).....injured and burned innocent childern are shown who tell that jahaz bombarded.....with no doctor available they just lie crying with pain...if those videos are false propaganda, then who bombarded them?...did taliban force tribals to lie about pak army and air force strikes?..did taliban killed and injured those men, women and kids and tell them to lie?
Like @nuclearpak said what could be the use of bombarding on barren mountains? PAF targets buildings...
Air strikes are barbaric and like drones its use should be condemned.

Agreed on the fact that the talibs are sperading an infectious propoganda machine. There are a few videos available in Lahore too.

 

[asad71]

1. The worst nightmare for a commander is to fight a COIN ops inside own territory against own people. Nothing prepares a soldier to kill own people or to get killed by own lot.

2. Every day the soldier must be told, "The people you are fighting are not your enemy but your own people gone astray". This sentence should displayed in the barracks, langar, offices - everywhere. If the Pakistani insurgent is treated like the enemy in war, then the insurgency will only spread.

3. When planning COIN ops higher HQs must involve historians, social scientists, religious leaders and mass psychologists. The Commander must try his best through these professionals to understand what is going on inside the skull of the insurgent.

4. I find the English (not the British) to be the most successful race in fighting COIN ops. They won over the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish at home. In SA we have been fighting his wars, bleeding and dying for him with pride. In more recent times, they fought successful COIN ops and made clean breaks in Malaya, Kenya and Cyprus.