LCB during KASOTC 16

[DESERT FIGHTER]

What is a ‘Light Commando’? Commandos are not supposed have heavy weapons any way.

I understood that all Commandos were essentially “Light Infantry”except that Commandos are experienced parachute jumpers & normally work behind the enemy lines. But both are equipped & trained to fight without heavy weaponry such as guns & mortars. If one is forming a quick reaction force using vertical insertion by helicopters or Osprey instead of jumping from parachute; then it would be light infantry.

They do all that .. Receiving training at Cherat by SSG.. They started as QRF (trained for QRF duty) at corps level and later evolved into LCB...

Nowadays LCB formations after completing their training are involved in operations in tandem with the SSG .. With teams having an embedded SSG operators...

They wear the army camo and can wear SSG uniform during operations .. Their insignia is different and wear a different beret .. They usually wear a red badge & not the Thunder strikes & dagger worn by SSG..

Their capabilities are nowhere equivalent to the SSG but they are in the process of evolving into a capable SF .. Right now they are more like the USA's 75th Rangers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/75th_Ranger_Regiment_(United_States)


PA has been sending these guys to multi internal SF exercises ... To gain experience rather than actually winning them..


On a lighter side ... The SSG guys actually consider em "inferior"... Lol and sometimes make fun of them "light commandos"..

LCB during KASOTC-16
First place: Lebanon – Black Panthers -Team (2)
Second place: Palestine – National Security Forces – NSF 101
Third place: Canada – Canadian Special Operations Regiment
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That red strip on his shoulder signified he was wounded in combat..

 

[R Wing]

I know we aren't a wealthy nation, but our boys really need better kit.

Even Zarrar --- the elite within the elite, the Tier 1, the CT specialists --- did not look nearly as badass as I would have imagined, which is very surprising because they are literally at the forefront of a global effort and are up there with the world's best Tier 1 special mission units. There aren't many Zarrar operators at any given time, so at least this tiny minority in an otherwise huge army should get the best gear available.

 

[BRAVO_]

yar for years we all are watching our SSG with same demonstrations one guy kick the window on a mountain the other throw some smoke grande and in next clip two guys running down the hills u can find these images in almost every other video of SSG over the years. they should update themselves according to new training standards. and such competitions are good for learning

 

[django]

I know we aren't a wealthy nation, but our boys really need better kit.

Even Zarrar --- the elite within the elite, the Tier 1, the CT specialists --- did not look nearly as badass as I would have imagined, which is very surprising because they are literally at the forefront of a global effort and are up there with the world's best Tier 1 special mission units. There aren't many Zarrar operators at any given time, so at least this tiny minority in an otherwise huge army should get the best gear available.

Zarrar are superbly equipped, all their weapons have optical sights, latest helmets, vests ,webbing, communication, night vision etc

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I know we aren't a wealthy nation, but our boys really need better kit.

Even Zarrar --- the elite within the elite, the Tier 1, the CT specialists --- did not look nearly as badass as I would have imagined, which is very surprising because they are literally at the forefront of a global effort and are up there with the world's best Tier 1 special mission units. There aren't many Zarrar operators at any given time, so at least this tiny minority in an otherwise huge army should get the best gear available.

Not zarrar coy though;

Zarrar are superbly equipped, all their weapons have optical sights, latest helmets, vests ,webbing, communication, night vision etc

Long range radios,thermal/NVGs,NV/LR binos,Laser designators/painters,light Kevlar vests,pads,webbings,multifunctional weapon sights,UTVs etc.. They have access to the best.

 

[R Wing]

Zarrar are superbly equipped, all their weapons have optical sights, latest helmets, vests ,webbing, communication, night vision etc

Yes, I'm well aware of their equipment. They are superbly equipped relative to other units. But their equipment is not on par with top global Tier 1 units. The stuff you mentioned is what you'd expect any spec ops unit to have (i.e. not necessarily Tier 1).

At that level, it's not simply about NVGs (which the terrorists can quite easily source too), but about how good the NVGs are. It's about the freedom to choose any modern firearm on the planet (most of them seem to have the same weapons as the regular commando battalions with perhaps a few extra goodies) and modify it to your heart's content. It's about experimental technologies custom-developed for the unit. Etc, etc, etc.

Also, I find it absurd that they enter any battle without balaclavas.

 

[django]

Long range radios,thermal/NVGs,NV/LR binos,Laser designators/painters,light Kevlar vests,pads,webbings,multifunctional weapon sights,UTVs etc.. They have access to the best.

As they should do and deserve to do.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yes, I'm well aware of their equipment. They are superbly equipped relative to other units. But their equipment is not on par with top global Tier 1 units. The stuff you mentioned is what you'd expect any spec ops unit to have (i.e. not necessarily Tier 1).

At that level, it's not simply about NVGs (which the terrorists can quite easily source too), but about how good the NVGs are. It's about the freedom to choose any modern firearm on the planet (most of them seem to have the same weapons as the regular commando battalions with perhaps a few extra goodies) and modify it to your heart's content. It's about experimental technologies custom-developed for the unit. Etc, etc, etc.

Also, I find it absurd that they enter any battle without balaclavas.

Can you point out what they lack.. And than we can start from there.

 

[django]

Yes, I'm well aware of their equipment. They are superbly equipped relative to other units. But their equipment is not on par with top global Tier 1 units. The stuff you mentioned is what you'd expect any spec ops unit to have (i.e. not necessarily Tier 1).

At that level, it's not simply about NVGs (which the terrorists can quite easily source too), but about how good the NVGs are. It's about the freedom to choose any modern firearm on the planet (most of them seem to have the same weapons as the regular commando battalions with perhaps a few extra goodies) and modify it to your heart's content. It's about experimental technologies custom-developed for the unit. Etc, etc, etc.

Also, I find it absurd that they enter any battle without balaclavas.

My dear chap what do you expect them to have, stealth helicopters at their disposal like seal team 6, they have the latest gen NVG the same ones used by US spec ops, according to @Zarvan they now have access to SCAR series, with what they have they can give hell to any potential adversary.

 

[R Wing]

My dear chap what do you expect them to have, stealth helicopters at their disposal like seal team 6, they have the latest gen NVG the same ones used by US spec ops, according to @Zarvan they now have access to SCAR series, with what they have they can give hell to any potential adversary.

Can you point out what they lack.. And than we can start from there.

Thanks for the information, guys! Firstly, let me point out that I have immense respect for Zarrar (and Karrar/SOTF) for their incredible bravery and skill. Two very close family members have served in these units and have partaken in some mind-blowing operations that could fill a hundred Hollywood scripts.

My understanding is this, and please correct me if I'm wrong. Zarrar does not have access to the very latest in NVG tech (i.e. the likes being used by Seal Team 6 with 4+ lenses for a fielder FOV).

Most Zarrar operators seem to be using rifles very similar to the ones issued to regular commando battalions.

SCAR and other such rifles are available with most Tier 2 units worldwide (e.g. US Rangers, SF, etc.). Most Tier 1 units (i.e. Delta Force, ST6, etc.) typically don't have any "standard" firearms. Each person has a near-unlimited budget to test, customise and use the firearms that they think they are best with. Many ST6 operators, for example, use an HK 416 as their primary rifle.

I can get more specifics and get back to you guys. BTW did you guys see Wajahat S Khan's feature on them? It might be a deception tactic, but their kit didn't look anything close to what I've noted US Tier 1 ops carrying.

 

[django]

Thanks for the information, guys! Firstly, let me point out that I have immense respect for Zarrar (and Karrar/SOTF) for their incredible bravery and skill. Two very close family members have served in these units and have partaken in some mind-blowing operations that could fill a hundred Hollywood scripts.

My understanding is this, and please correct me if I'm wrong. Zarrar does not have access to the very latest in NVG tech (i.e. the likes being used by Seal Team 6 with 4+ lenses for a fielder FOV).

Most Zarrar operators seem to be using rifles very similar to the ones issued to regular commando battalions.

SCAR and other such rifles are available with most Tier 2 units worldwide (e.g. US Rangers, SF, etc.). Most Tier 1 units (i.e. Delta Force, ST6, etc.) typically don't have any "standard" firearms. Each person has a near-unlimited budget to test, customise and use the firearms that they think they are best with. Many ST6 operators, for example, use an HK 416 as their primary rifle.

I can get more specifics and get back to you guys. BTW did you guys see Wajahat S Khan's feature on them? It might be a deception tactic, but their kit didn't look anything close to what I've noted US Tier 1 ops carrying.

During the peak years of the US war in Afghanistan, SSG was provided with latest NVG from US, the same model that their own spec ops were using, where they eager to give these ,NO yet we managed to secure them, we still have close contacts with their military and indeed are a major non-nato military ally, if they can sell f-16 block 50-52 with all the advanced kit that comes with it, I am sure they will keep on supplying latest NVGs to our spec ops, BTW SSG operators can choose a variety of weapons etc Steyr Aug, M4, M-16, type-56, type 81, Ak-103, FN-2000 should be also available as well as the Scar series, plus many other weapons such as latest TOW anti-tank missiles.
Do they have the same resources as US or British SAS , not quite the same but I should imagine they are as well equipped as say our Turkish brothers,nations like Poland and our arch enemy India.kudos and respect to your family members who served.

 

[Sage]

Thanks for the informative response @Sage , I was not aware that SSG was present, I thought only two teams from LCB represented us, I am surprised that they did not perform too good on the physical side (or that is the impression I got) most of the NLI guys are from lands high up with thin air, I am surprised they did not win this part of the competition.kudos

No sir ...SSG was not there this time ...they were there twice...previously ...Honestly ...We need to learn a thing or two from the Chinese ...they are too quick and deadly marksmen ...our guys are tough and well-built ...But you know being in battle is different than being in sports ...I wish the army would know this someday !

yar for years we all are watching our SSG with same demonstrations one guy kick the window on a mountain the other throw some smoke grande and in next clip two guys running down the hills u can find these images in almost every other video of SSG over the years. they should update themselves according to new training standards. and such competitions are good for learning

That is exactly the point that the army should grasp ...Different patterns need to be followed ...You talk of the SSG only ...SSGN and SSW are all doing those ages old somersaults and rappelling stunts ....I asked the same question from an SSW officer and he could not agree more.

And Yes ...most of them want something like HK-416 as their standard rifle ..some of them are just too much in love with their Type-56 !

 

[R Wing]

A

During the peak years of the US war in Afghanistan, SSG was provided with latest NVG from US, the same model that their own spec ops were using, where they eager to give these ,NO yet we managed to secure them, we still have close contacts with their military and indeed are a major non-nato military ally, if they can sell f-16 block 50-52 with all the advanced kit that comes with it, I am sure they will keep on supplying latest NVGs to our spec ops, BTW SSG operators can choose a variety of weapons etc Steyr Aug, M4, M-16, type-56, type 81, Ak-103, FN-2000 should be also available as well as the Scar series, plus many other weapons such as latest TOW anti-tank missiles.
Do they have the same resources as US or British SAS , not quite the same but I should imagine they are as well equipped as say our Turkish brothers,nations like Poland and our arch enemy India.kudos and respect to your family members who served.

Apologies for the delayed response, mate!

The point I am trying to make is that in the Tiered System that the US uses --- somewhat useful in classification various spec ops units in terms of training/capability/kit --- Zarrar should clearly be equivalent in kit to US Tier 1 units (aka Seal Team 6 and Delta Force, to use their non-official names). These units pick from the "regular"/vanilla elite units (e.g. the other SEAL Teams and US Army Special Forces, known as Tier 2 in the US), just like Zarrar (our Tier 1) picks from the "regular" SSG (our Tier 2).

However, Zarrar's kit looks more along the lines of foreign Tier 2 units (i.e. US Army Special Forces or Navy SEALs) rather than Tier 1 units (i.e. Delta Force, Seal Team 6). You can confirm this by having a look at:

.

There are a few books by Navy SEALs (already a very elite unit) that mention how big of an upgrade the kit was when they went from one of the regular Navy SEAL Teams to SEAL Team 6 (aka DEVGRU). I can recommend some if you're interested.

Zarrar kit is top-notch, no doubt, but is it up there with the best Tier 1 Units in the world? I'm not sure --- but I hope so!

Also, I don't think any Tier 1 unit in the world would allow unmasked faces in such a video.

 

[django]

A

Apologies for the delayed response, mate!

The point I am trying to make is that in the Tiered System that the US uses --- somewhat useful in classification various spec ops units in terms of training/capability/kit --- Zarrar should clearly be equivalent in kit to US Tier 1 units (aka Seal Team 6 and Delta Force, to use their non-official names). These units pick from the "regular"/vanilla elite units (e.g. the other SEAL Teams and US Army Special Forces, known as Tier 2 in the US), just like Zarrar (our Tier 1) picks from the "regular" SSG (our Tier 2).

However, Zarrar's kit looks more along the lines of foreign Tier 2 units (i.e. US Army Special Forces or Navy SEALs) rather than Tier 1 units (i.e. Delta Force, Seal Team 6). You can confirm this by having a look at:

.

There are a few books by Navy SEALs (already a very elite unit) that mention how big of an upgrade the kit was when they went from one of the regular Navy SEAL Teams to SEAL Team 6 (aka DEVGRU). I can recommend some if you're interested.

Zarrar kit is top-notch, no doubt, but is it up there with the best Tier 1 Units in the world? I'm not sure --- but I hope so!

Also, I don't think any Tier 1 unit in the world would allow unmasked faces in such a video.

You seem to follow US forces more precisely than I do, Let us hope that they can get closer to the tier 1 level if they are not already their and I suspect they are not as well equipped as Seal team 6 but then do you think Turkish spec ops are or say Polish spec ops?

 

[R Wing]

You seem to follow US forces more precisely than I do, Let us hope that they can get closer to the tier 1 level if they are not already their and I suspect they are not as well equipped as Seal team 6 but then do you think Turkish spec ops are or say Polish spec ops?

Polish GROM have some really, really good kit and are up there with the world's best.

I don't think any Tier 1 unit uses M4s as their primary assault rifle/carbine. Most of the regular US Army carries that gun. A silenced HK416 seems to be the rifle/carbine of choice for a lot of Tier 1 operators.

Not sure about the Turks. Obviously it is hard to match the kit carried by the US Tier 1 Units due to the massive budget and technological prowess of the US economy --- but I think we could do with some essential upgrades.