Latest Buzz: Israel offers to participate in Super Sukhoi upgrade with GaN AESA?

[Harisudan]

I have thing about Russian Engines, the smoke that they give out, is more than a vintage steam engine. look at the RD-93 and derivatives.. You can shoot the plane by looking at the smoke no radar needed.

LOL True.. Mig 29 had this problems, but it was sorted to an extent..The Engine Sukhoi30 uses is al-31 Fp..

 

[posedion]

LOL True.. Mig 29 had this problems, but it was sorted to an extent..The Engine Sukhoi30 uses is al-31 Fp..

The beast called Saturn

 

[GURU DUTT]

Russia needs money bhai, and it will give us what we want if we carry negotiations like that. if not hten they will simply sell it to the Chinese, but a too strong China is not in Russia's interest too...



Israel and India have much to benefit from Each other the potential of this partnership is yet to be realized.

they need money but russians have an habit of "latkaana" if they are sure the deal wont go in there favour very bad times ahead for spares and other russian stuff for india if this deal goes thru which i want it to but not hopefull all depends on NaMo as how he deals with russians now but if somehow russia agrees to let india go ahead with israeli upgrades then trust me i wont be surprised to hear other day that some american comany has offrred its latest engine for MKi aswell

 

[Skull and Bones]

if an israeli AESA Radar is fitted to MKI that means the tracking capacity of MKI will increase almost more than twice if not thrice meaning an MKI with Israeli EL-2052 could track a F-16BLK52 at the range of 200+miles and if there is an israeli radar then so will be the latest version of israeli EW suits , ECM , Self Protection Jammers's & wepon pacage that will make MKI the best 4th gen flanker variant in the world

long live indo israeli friendship

AESA doesn't actually translate to higher detection range, it means the radar is resilience against jamming. Taking that into consideration, Israeli lacks in composite and RAM technologies to mask the RCS of Su-30 MKI, should be taken into consideration while going for MLU.

 

[Vyom]

Technically RD series is a 70s product how do you expect it to be on par with today's engine design

There has been no new Engine development since the 80s reson being there is't enough funding or technological development. there is no way Russian Engine Come close to Western ones.

 

[GURU DUTT]

AESA doesn't actually translate to higher detection range, it means the radar is resilience against jamming. Taking that into consideration, Israeli lacks in composite and RAM technologies to mask the RCS of Su-30 MKI, should be taken into consideration while going for MLU.

im not a technical guy but a person who explained AESA its like one TRM or TERM or whatever they call is one single radar now if you pack many radars in one single unit tied to a single processing unit but each module having its diffrent frequency which can also be changed to confure the enemy radar trying to jamm it + since AESA is solid state it has no moving parts hence very low mentainence + deu to bigger and more powerfull transmitters it has twice if not thrice the detection range of a MMR radar

 

[Vyom]

they need money but russians have an habit of "latkaana" if they are sure the deal wont go in there favour very bad times ahead for spares and other russian stuff for india if this deal goes thru which i want it to but not hopefull all depends on NaMo as how he deals with russians now but if somehow russia agrees to let india go ahead with israeli upgrades then trust me i wont be surprised to hear other day that some american comany has offrred its latest engine for MKi aswell

Russia needs a diverse market for its products, never put all your eggs in the same basket. Russians and Chinese each other. India should buy who so ever sells, If you ask me. I say Dump Russia and partner with Ukraine they are more money starved and have a good aviation industry. We can Buy all Technology and Intellectual property rights. from em. of Antonotov ACs provided we buy it big enough.

My distrust of Russia comes from the "latkana" of HAL/IL - 214 MTA project what happened to it..?!?! IAF dumped it because the Engines they were supplying couldn't relight in mid flight. Almost at Standard in western Air-forces.

 

[kaykay]

Elta 2052 has many variants( and thus suitable for smaller fighters to giant one). Biggest variant consumes around 10 kva and has range above 200+ km for small targets.

 

[Skull and Bones]

im not a technical guy but a person who explained AESA its like one TRM or TERM or whatever they call is one single radar now if you pack many radars in one single unit tied to a single processing unit but each module having its diffrent frequency which can also be changed to confure the enemy radar trying to jamm it + since AESA is solid state it has no moving parts hence very low mentainence + deu to bigger and more powerfull transmitters it has twice if not thrice the detection range of a MMR radar

It is called as Trans-Receiver Module, and the range of the radar depends on the output power of such TRMs, even PESA radars has TRMs, and their numbers can be ramped up too. And the resolution of the detected waves also plays an important factor in identifying two different entities at a distance, and the whole thing depends on the back end signal processing.

The unique advantage of AESA is the rapid change in operating frequency of the radar, to overcome any jamming attempt of the adversary on a definite frequency.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Russia needs a diverse market for its products, never put all your eggs in the same basket. Russians and Chinese each other. India should buy who so ever sells, If you ask me. I say Dump Russia and partner with Ukraine they are more money starved and have a good aviation industry. We can Buy all Technology and Intellectual property rights. from em. of Antonotov ACs provided we buy it big enough.

My distrust of Russia comes from the "latkana" of HAL/IL - 214 MTA project what happened to it..?!?! IAF dumped it because the Engines they were supplying couldn't relight in mid flight. Almost at Standard in western Air-forces.

thing is russia still has many projects running with india and situation is more or less same between india and russia with respect to inter dependence

point is how new PMO & MOD handels it if russia cooprates with india it stands to gain much much more than it ever hoped to but if russia goes back to its old "latkana" tactiks then im afraid its bad for both of us as india will slide totally in western camp which not onli hamper working and mentainence owr existing russian origin stuff in india but also open flood gates of russian tech to owr enemy states which in short term will be a major headache but if we play smart then one day we will be able achieve with respect to owr dream of self reliance

anyway i hope we go with israeli upgrade pakage for not just MKI but all russian origin militarry hardware .... BTW any guesses what will this upgrade cost us per single MKI like it was 40Million for M2K

my best guess is 25million while the worst is 50 million whats yours and all indians

 

[Vyom]

thing is russia still has many projects running with india and situation is more or less same between india and russia with respect to inter dependence

point is how new PMO & MOD handels it if russia cooprates with india it stands to gain much much more than it ever hoped to but if russia goes back to its old "latkana" tactiks then im afraid its bad for both of us as india will slide totally in western camp which not onli hamper working and mentainence owr existing russian origin stuff in india but also open flood gates of russian tech to owr enemy states which in short term will be a major headache but if we play smart then one day we will be able achieve with respect to owr dream of self reliance

anyway i hope we go with israeli upgrade pakage for not just MKI but all russian origin militarry hardware .... BTW any guesses what will this upgrade cost us per single MKI like it was 40Million for M2K

my best guess is 25million while the worst is 50 million whats yours and all indians

No guesses for that, lekin I am pretty certain that, Russia has only few systems that are truly contemporary in nature, Even PAK FA is in developmental phase (F22 BUILT IN 1990S END.) Ruskis are two decades behind USA (perhaps more). but our security threats on both sides of the border are now from russian soviet era weapons. So India's drift to the US camp is natural, Russia has to offer a deal or it will loose a market. a huge one.

 

[migflug]

It's a great idea. We can replace most of the electronics with Israel indo jv. But can Russian missile be integrated with elta radar. Although I would love amraam version of barak 8 in iaf , which could be well integrated with Israeli electronics.

 

[GURU DUTT]

It's a great idea. We can replace most of the electronics with Israel indo jv. But can Russian missile be integrated with elta radar. Although I would love amraam version of barak 8 in iaf , which could be well integrated with Israeli electronics.

we already have I Derby ER with alleged range of 100-110 Km but if we can some how make a compact air to air version of Barak8 it would mean 100-120 miles and that is more than enof i guess merried with a israeli GaN AESA it will mean an MKI can track & engage at least 16 targets simontanuslly at ranges well over 100 miles meaning no PAF or PLAAF fighter will try to attack india

 

[fockewulf190]

What is the reliability of the su30 mki radar? What's the downtime of aircrafts due to radar unserviceabilities.

 

[sathya]

-> Like @zebra7 pointed out, changing to Israeli AESA instead of upgrading BARS , its going to cost & effort , a lot.

New generation Russian weapons meant for Pak Fa will also get integrated into super sukhoi

we cant even expect Russia to give source code for next gen weapons,

-> like @sudhir007 pointed out, we cant let go UTTAM aesa development too, its platform is none other than tejas

-> Rafale wont have anything other than RBE

-> Mirages and Mig 29 upg s just got upgraded radars

-> Only jaguar with small nose cone and proposed new engine upgrade is left to fit in with new radars.

-> Better to develop AMCA fast for this GaN radars


btw Already sukhoi was also called as Mini AWACS, if by any chance get GaN aesa radar, then -