Largest Annual Gathering of Muslims in Britain Rejects ISIS

[Pakistani E]

Don't you believe in Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) hadiths ?

Every tom, dick and harry muslim who reads Hadiths knows what Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) said about Hazrat Isa (as) , his ascend to heaven and his second coming.

Despite clear signs and predictions , if you are in denial, then it goes against the basic tenets of Islam. If you don't believe in basic tenets of Islam, how would you qualify for being a muslim?

First of all, do you not believe that the Holy Qur'an, being the word of Allah ta'ala has superiority of any words of Hadiths? Do you also not believe that since there can be no contradiction between what Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) said and what it is said in the Qur'an, the Hadiths must be understood to be in the same context as the Qur'an? Just these two things in mind when we are trying to understand any hadiths. They must be interpreted in line with the Qur'an.

The Quranic verses I mentioned are pretty clear to me. They leave no doubt that Syedna Isa (as) is dead. Just like any other prophet. I do not know why you chose to ignore the verses I mentioned but Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) will never say anything that contradicts the Qur'an. This is why Ahmadis take the Hadiths about descent of Syedna Isa (as) as metaphorical and not literal.

 

[Bratva]

First of all, do you not believe that the Holy Qur'an, being the word of Allah ta'ala has superiority of any words of Hadiths? Do you also not believe that since there can be no contradiction between what Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) said and what it is said in the Qur'an, the Hadiths must be understood to be in the same context as the Qur'an? Just these two things in mind when we are trying to understand any hadiths. They must be interpreted in line with the Qur'an.

The Quranic verses I mentioned are pretty clear to me. They leave no doubt that Syedna Isa (as) is dead. Just like any other prophet. I do not know why you chose to ignore the verses I mentioned but Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) will never say anything that contradicts the Qur'an. This is why Ahmadis take the Hadiths about descent of Syedna Isa (as) as metaphorical and not literal.

Let's Revisit both Quran and Hadith, shall we.

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise


‘Isa (as), son of Maryam (as), will be a just judge and just ruler (in my community), break and crush the cross and kill the pig ... The earth will be so filled of peace as a vessel is filled with water. The entire world shall recite and follow one and the same Word and none shall be worshipped except Allah. (Ibn Majah)



Jabir (radiallahu anh) reported that the Messenger of Allah salallahu 'alayhi wasallam said, "A party of my followers will not cease to fight for victory until the Day of Resurrection. Then Jesus, son of Mary, will come down. Their Imaam will say, "Come and lead our prayer" He will reply, "Some of you are rulers over others on account of divine honour upon these people." (Muslim)

Abu Huraira (radiallahu anh) reported that the Messenger of Allah Peace and blessings be upon him said, "By the one whose hands my life is in, surely the son of Maryam (Peace upon her) will descend amongst you as a just ruler. He will destroy the cross, kill the swine and abolish the tax." (Bukhari)

Hadrat Hudaifah ibn Osaid reported: The Holy Prophet Peace and blessings be upon him suddenly came to us while we were talking. He asked, "What are you talking about?" They replied "We were talking about the last hour." The Prophet (salallahu 'alayhi wasallam) said, "It will never come until you see ten signs before it," He then mentioned the Smoke, the Dajjal, the Beast, the Rising of the Sun in its place of setting, the Descent of Jesus son of Mary and Yajuj and Ma'juj. (Muslim)



In light of Quran and hadiths, How Mirza Ghulam fulfill these conditions? Neither he was descended from heaven, Neither he filled earth with peace and everyone began believing in oneness of Allah nor he ruled the earth. He was born as baby, while Isa (A.S) will descent on earth at the same age as he was ascended on heavens, not that he would be born as baby !

More-ever, If Hazrat Isa (A.S) is dead, how come Allah can send a Dead person back to earth during the end of times to fight Dajjal ? It contradicts the very Basic islamic tenets on which it stands as dead person can only be raised on day of Qiyamah, not before, not after, do you agree on this ?! He is alive and will be sent back to earth where he will marry, rule the earth and dies a natural death. Now compare

Or if you hold the believe that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) nauzubillah spoke a lie than our debates end here.

 

[Bratva]

First of all, do you not believe that the Holy Qur'an, being the word of Allah ta'ala has superiority of any words of Hadiths? Do you also not believe that since there can be no contradiction between what Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) said and what it is said in the Qur'an, the Hadiths must be understood to be in the same context as the Qur'an? Just these two things in mind when we are trying to understand any hadiths. They must be interpreted in line with the Qur'an.

The Quranic verses I mentioned are pretty clear to me. They leave no doubt that Syedna Isa (as) is dead. Just like any other prophet. I do not know why you chose to ignore the verses I mentioned but Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) will never say anything that contradicts the Qur'an. This is why Ahmadis take the Hadiths about descent of Syedna Isa (as) as metaphorical and not literal.

Either you didn't bother to read Quran or you are showing a intellectual dishonesty in order to prove your point.

The ayaa's you posted, are not stand alone ayaah's. They are part of a continuing subject. Did you bother to read 10 ayahs before the AL Imran 3:144 verse and 10 after that verse to understand there is continuing argument Allah is presenting, If you pluck one verse it will distort the meaning of the entire subject that Allah is discussing?

Same goes for other verses you just cherry picked just to validate your believes. Let's just say, you need to read entire context of those ayaas with proper tafsir and Ahaadiths, then say Hazrat Isa (a.s) is dead and hadith's are metaphorical not literal !

 

[Zarvan]

The rise of Isis has raised the threat of terror in the UK and led to a summer of negative headlines about Islam – even pushing leading British imams to call for a fatwa prohibiting Muslims from joining the terror group.

But in a field in Hampshire on Sunday, more than 30,000 Muslims gathered to celebrate a very different face of their religion.

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, whose motto is “love for all, hatred for none”, gathered in a specially created tented village for the largest Muslim convention in Britain. Their message was simple: peace, not jihad, is the true meaning of Islam.

Sunday was the final day of the Jalsa Salana (annual convention in Urdu). The three day event attracted Muslims from more than 80 countries around the world, who met to reaffirm their commitment to Ahmadi ideals of non-violence, neighbourliness and charity.

Jamal Akbar, 34, was among those volunteering at the event. He works in investment banking IT and coordinates Ahmadiyya charity programmes in his spare time. “I am very frustrated at other Muslims who portray this negative view of Islam because it’s not Islam they’re portraying,” he said.

“There’s so much love and peace in the atmosphere here ... I hope non-Muslims and Muslims alike will see the message that we’re portraying, that this is what Islam is all about.”

The current leader, or caliph, Mirza Masroor Ahmad, led tens of thousands of worshippers in Sunday’s pledge ceremony. Known as Bai’at, it involves followers pledging to keep to 10 main promises of the faith, including to pray regularly, not be overtaken by extremes of passion and be humble and cheerful. The proceedings were transmitted to a potential audience of 80 million Muslims worldwide.

Preaching earlier in the weekend, he said: “Terrorists who seek to justify their hateful acts in Islam’s name can only be condemned. They are motivated by a selfish desire to fulfil their own personal interests and ambitions ... ignorant of the true teachings of Islam – of peace and tolerance.”

Ahmadiyya Muslims are not accepted in some countries, which is part of the reason the annual international convention is held in the UK and attracts so many worshippers from overseas. In Pakistan, for example, Ahmadis are a persecuted minority and the state refuses to acknowledge them as Muslims because they do not recognise Muhammad as the final prophet.

Ahmadiyya Muslims: British convention of a religious minority persecuted abroad spreads a message of love and peace - Home News - UK - The Independent

So sad no body gives a dam about you liars and your resistance will help ISIS rather than stopping it and it was gathering off non muslims

 

[Pakistani E]

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise

Please look at this verse in context, it talks about the saying of the Jews, that they ‘did slay the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary!’ Allah Almighty answers them that ‘wa ma Qatalu-hu’ - they slew him not! Then the verse states ‘Wa ma Salabu-hu’ - nor did they crucify him! Here it is stating that Jesus was not crucified on the Cross; he did not die on it, but it does not deny that he could have been put on the Cross, only that he did not die on the Cross!

The Arabic words Maa Salabu-hu do not deny the fact of Hadhrat Jesus'AS being nailed to the Cross but deny his having died on it as is clear from Arabic lexicon. For example they say Salaba Ash-Shaia, i.e., he burned the thing. Salabal Izama means, he extracted the marrow out of the bones. Salabal Lissa means, he crucified the thief, i.e., he put him to death in a certain well-known manner (Lane & Aqrab). In crucifixion one was nailed to a framework made in the form of a cross and, being kept without food and drink, slowly died of pain, hunger, fatigue, and exposure. (This is the definition given in Oxford dictionary of what it 'crucify' means.)

The verse then states ‘Wa lakin Shubbiha La-hum’ - but he was made to appear to them like one crucified! or the matter of the death of Jesus became obscure or dubious to them! The word Shubbiha means, he was made to appear like, or was made to resemble. Now the question arises, who is the person who was made to appear "like one crucified". Clearly it was Hadhrat JesusAS whom the Jews tried to crucify or slay. Nobody else can be meant here, for there is absolutely no reference to any other person in the context. The context cannot be twisted as to make room for somebody else of whom no mention at all is made in the verse. To what then was Hadhrat JesusAS made like? The context provides a clear answer to that question. The Jews did not kill him by crucifixion, but he was made to appear to them like "one crucified", and thus it was that they wrongly took him for dead. It was thus Hadhrat JesusAS who was made to resemble "one crucified".

Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise

As a matter of fact the above Arabic words simply mean that Allah exalted him (Hadhrat JesusAS) to Himself. Here the exaltation is the exaltation of the soul of which the Jews were trying to deprive him by putting to death through crucifixion, but Allah frustrated them in their evil designs, as the Holy Bible states: 'He that is hanged on the tree is accursed of God.'(Deuteronomy 21:23)

In the Holy Quran, the Traditions of the Holy ProphetSAW, the Commentaries and in the Arabic idioms, whenever the word Rafa'a is used by Allah for a human being, it always connotes exaltation of ranks and spiritual nearness, because no fixed abode can be, or has ever been, assigned to God as the Holy Quran declares: "And He is Allah, both in the heavens and in the earth." (6:4) "So withersoever you turn, there will be the face of Allah." (2:116) "And We are nearer to him than even his jugular vein." (50:17) Hence, Rafa'a Ilallah does not necessitate one's physical ascension to heaven, rather this Rafa'a--exaltation is achieved on this very earth.
As a matter of fact that word Rafa'a has never been used in the entire Holy Quran nor in the Traditions of the Holy ProphetSAW as a connotation of physical ascension to heaven as is clear from the following references:

1. Wa Lau Shi'naa La Rafa'anaaho Bihaa Wa Laakinnahoo Akhlada Ilal Ardhi--"And if We had pleased, We would have exalted him thereby; but he inclined to the earth." (7:177) Here the commentators are unanimous in their interpretation of the exaltation of the ranks of the referred person. It is never meant to indicate the intention of physically raising up the referred person to heaven.
2. Wa Rafa'anaaho Makaanan Aliyyaa--"And We exalted him (Hadhrat IdrisAS) to lofty station." (19:58) Likewise see: 24:37; 80:14-15; 56:35; 58:12.
3. Idha Tawaza Al-Abdo Rafa'ahollaho Ilas Samaa Is-Saabiati--"When a person shows humility, Allah lifts him up to the seventh heaven." (Kanzul Ummaal Vol. 2, page 53) This Hadith clearly shows that even if the word Samaa (sky) had been used here instead of Allah, the verse could not have meant anything else but spiritual honor and exaltation. Will the non-Ahmadies believe that every act of humility literally lifts a person up to heaven in both body and spirit? Certainly, there can be no bigger folly than such an inference. Why then draw such inference in the case of JesusAS? Why should he be sent up to heaven alive? Was not this earth sufficient for him as the Quran declared: Alam Najalil Arza Kifaatan Ahya'an Wa Amwaatan--"Have We not made the earth sufficient for the living and the dead?" (77:26-27)
4. All the Muslims are aware of the fact that there occurs the word Warfa'anee (and exalt me in ranks) in the prayer which the Holy ProphetSAW used to pray between two Sajdas (prostrations). (Kitab Ibn Maja) All the Muslims supplicate this prayer between two Sajdas in their Salat, but does any one ever think that he is supplicating for his physical ascension to heaven? Or, is there any doubt regarding the Holy ProphetSAW's Rafa'a (exaltation of ranks) despite his sojourn on this very earth?
5. In the Commentary of the Holy Quran known as Tafseer Saafi under the verse Maa Muhammadun Illa Rasool Qad Khalat Min Qablihir Rusul (3:145) the demise of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) has been mentioned in he following words: Hatta Idha Da'a Allaho Nabiyyahoo Wa Rafa'a Hoo Ilaihi--"Until when Allah called His Prophet and exalted him to Himself." Now here are words Rafa'a Hoo Ilaihi used for the Holy ProphetSAW had never been interpreted as his corporal ascension to heaven. Is it not strange and outright blasphemy to interpret the word Rafa'a for the Holy ProphetSAW as exaltation of his ranks, and for JesusAS as his physical ascension to heaven?

‘Isa (as), son of Maryam (as), will be a just judge and just ruler (in my community), break and crush the cross and kill the pig ... The earth will be so filled of peace as a vessel is filled with water. The entire world shall recite and follow one and the same Word and none shall be worshipped except Allah. (Ibn Majah)

As for these hadiths:

"Jabir (radiallahu anh) reported that the Messenger of Allah salallahu 'alayhi wasallam said, "A party of my followers will not cease to fight for victory until the Day of Resurrection. Then Jesus, son of Mary, will come down. Their Imaam will say, "Come and lead our prayer" He will reply, "Some of you are rulers over others on account of divine honour upon these people." (Muslim)

Abu Huraira (radiallahu anh) reported that the Messenger of Allah Peace and blessings be upon him said, "By the one whose hands my life is in, surely the son of Maryam (Peace upon her) will descend amongst you as a just ruler. He will destroy the cross, kill the swine and abolish the tax." (Bukhari)

Hadrat Hudaifah ibn Osaid reported: The Holy Prophet Peace and blessings be upon him suddenly came to us while we were talking. He asked, "What are you talking about?" They replied "We were talking about the last hour." The Prophet (salallahu 'alayhi wasallam) said, "It will never come until you see ten signs before it," He then mentioned the Smoke, the Dajjal, the Beast, the Rising of the Sun in its place of setting, the Descent of Jesus son of Mary and Yajuj and Ma'juj. (Muslim)"

It would have been better if you had also pasted the Arabic text of these hadiths so it would have been easier for anyone who reads these hadiths. My point is about the word the interpretation of the word Nazul.
The word Nazul, it is argued, signifies that Hadhrat JesusAS must come down physically from the high heavens, hence, he is physically alive in heaven. Besides, the Holy ProphetSAW said that the son of Mary will come, so it must be Hadhrat JesusAS himself who should come personally.
In the first place, there is no word Minas-Samaa from heaven, mentioned in the Traditions. No doubt there are two points which need explanation: One Nazool and the other Ibn Maryam. It should be remembered that the word Nazala may mean "he descended" but it cannot by any stretch of meaning, signify "he descended physically from the heavens". There is not the slightest justification for this.
The same word is used about the coming of the Holy ProphetSAW. Says the Holy Quran: Qad Anzalallaho Ilaikum Dhikran Rasoolan Yatloo Alaikum Aayaatillahi--"Allah has indeed sent down to you a Reminder, a Messenger, who recites unto you the clear signs of Allah." (65:11-12) But No one can say that the Holy ProphetSAW came down from the heavens physically.
Then God says: Wa Anzalnal Hadeeda--"And We sent down iron" (57:26), and we know that it is not thrown down from the heavens. Likewise the word Nazool has been mentioned about cattle in 39:7; about raiment in 7:27. Even this word had been used for each and every thing in 15:22 where Allah says: Wa In Min Shai-in Illaa Indinna Khazaainohoo Wa Maa Nonazzilohoo Illaa Biqadarin Ma'aloom--"And there is not a thing but with Us are the treasures thereof and We send it not down except in known measure." Hence, it appears that all things in nature descend from God--are gifted by God--and yet they do not drop from Heaven. Their creation takes place in and on and through this very earth. Therefore, the word Nazool (descend), when used for the coming of the Messiah, can have no other meaning. It can only point to the importance, the blessedness and the spiritual significance of the Promised Messiah. It is not in the least intended to suggest that he would physically drop from Heaven to earth.

Either you didn't bother to read Quran or you are showing a intellectual dishonesty in order to prove your point.

The ayaa's you posted, are not stand alone ayaah's. They are part of a continuing subject. Did you bother to read 10 ayahs before the AL Imran 3:144 verse and 10 after that verse to understand there is continuing argument Allah is presenting, If you pluck one verse it will distort the meaning of the entire subject that Allah is discussing?

Same goes for other verses you just cherry picked just to validate your believes. Let's just say, you need to read entire context of those ayaas with proper tafsir and Ahaadiths, then say Hazrat Isa (a.s) is dead and hadith's are metaphorical not literal !

This is not even worth answering. You did not answer any points I raised but went on a random rant about me being intellectually dishonest. Well good sir, why don't you show a higher moral point and answer my points about the verses that prove Hazrat Isa (as) is dead, why did you ignore them? I have read the verses before and after them. My points still stand. Apart from those verses that you chose to ignore, what will you do with these hadtihs ?

There is no one alive today but will be dead before a hundred years have passed over it. (Muslim)
If Moses and Jesus had been alive, they would have no choice but to follow me. (ibn Kathir)
If Moses and Jesus had been alive, they would have had to believe in me and follow me. (Tabarani)
Jesus, son of Mary, lived to 120 years. (Tabarani)
Do you not know that our Lord lives for ever while Jesus perished. (Wahidi)
Jesus lived to 120 years. (Kanz al-Ummal)

So sad no body gives a dam about you liars and your resistance will help ISIS rather than stopping it and it was gathering off non muslims

So sad that you call me liar but don't show where exactly it is that I lied.

 

[Zarvan]

Please look at this verse in context, it talks about the saying of the Jews, that they ‘did slay the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary!’ Allah Almighty answers them that ‘wa ma Qatalu-hu’ - they slew him not! Then the verse states ‘Wa ma Salabu-hu’ - nor did they crucify him! Here it is stating that Jesus was not crucified on the Cross; he did not die on it, but it does not deny that he could have been put on the Cross, only that he did not die on the Cross!

The Arabic words Maa Salabu-hu do not deny the fact of Hadhrat Jesus'AS being nailed to the Cross but deny his having died on it as is clear from Arabic lexicon. For example they say Salaba Ash-Shaia, i.e., he burned the thing. Salabal Izama means, he extracted the marrow out of the bones. Salabal Lissa means, he crucified the thief, i.e., he put him to death in a certain well-known manner (Lane & Aqrab). In crucifixion one was nailed to a framework made in the form of a cross and, being kept without food and drink, slowly died of pain, hunger, fatigue, and exposure. (This is the definition given in Oxford dictionary of what it 'crucify' means.)

The verse then states ‘Wa lakin Shubbiha La-hum’ - but he was made to appear to them like one crucified! or the matter of the death of Jesus became obscure or dubious to them! The word Shubbiha means, he was made to appear like, or was made to resemble. Now the question arises, who is the person who was made to appear "like one crucified". Clearly it was Hadhrat JesusAS whom the Jews tried to crucify or slay. Nobody else can be meant here, for there is absolutely no reference to any other person in the context. The context cannot be twisted as to make room for somebody else of whom no mention at all is made in the verse. To what then was Hadhrat JesusAS made like? The context provides a clear answer to that question. The Jews did not kill him by crucifixion, but he was made to appear to them like "one crucified", and thus it was that they wrongly took him for dead. It was thus Hadhrat JesusAS who was made to resemble "one crucified".




As a matter of fact the above Arabic words simply mean that Allah exalted him (Hadhrat JesusAS) to Himself. Here the exaltation is the exaltation of the soul of which the Jews were trying to deprive him by putting to death through crucifixion, but Allah frustrated them in their evil designs, as the Holy Bible states: 'He that is hanged on the tree is accursed of God.'(Deuteronomy 21:23)

In the Holy Quran, the Traditions of the Holy ProphetSAW, the Commentaries and in the Arabic idioms, whenever the word Rafa'a is used by Allah for a human being, it always connotes exaltation of ranks and spiritual nearness, because no fixed abode can be, or has ever been, assigned to God as the Holy Quran declares: "And He is Allah, both in the heavens and in the earth." (6:4) "So withersoever you turn, there will be the face of Allah." (2:116) "And We are nearer to him than even his jugular vein." (50:17) Hence, Rafa'a Ilallah does not necessitate one's physical ascension to heaven, rather this Rafa'a--exaltation is achieved on this very earth.
As a matter of fact that word Rafa'a has never been used in the entire Holy Quran nor in the Traditions of the Holy ProphetSAW as a connotation of physical ascension to heaven as is clear from the following references:

1. Wa Lau Shi'naa La Rafa'anaaho Bihaa Wa Laakinnahoo Akhlada Ilal Ardhi--"And if We had pleased, We would have exalted him thereby; but he inclined to the earth." (7:177) Here the commentators are unanimous in their interpretation of the exaltation of the ranks of the referred person. It is never meant to indicate the intention of physically raising up the referred person to heaven.
2. Wa Rafa'anaaho Makaanan Aliyyaa--"And We exalted him (Hadhrat IdrisAS) to lofty station." (19:58) Likewise see: 24:37; 80:14-15; 56:35; 58:12.
3. Idha Tawaza Al-Abdo Rafa'ahollaho Ilas Samaa Is-Saabiati--"When a person shows humility, Allah lifts him up to the seventh heaven." (Kanzul Ummaal Vol. 2, page 53) This Hadith clearly shows that even if the word Samaa (sky) had been used here instead of Allah, the verse could not have meant anything else but spiritual honor and exaltation. Will the non-Ahmadies believe that every act of humility literally lifts a person up to heaven in both body and spirit? Certainly, there can be no bigger folly than such an inference. Why then draw such inference in the case of JesusAS? Why should he be sent up to heaven alive? Was not this earth sufficient for him as the Quran declared: Alam Najalil Arza Kifaatan Ahya'an Wa Amwaatan--"Have We not made the earth sufficient for the living and the dead?" (77:26-27)
4. All the Muslims are aware of the fact that there occurs the word Warfa'anee (and exalt me in ranks) in the prayer which the Holy ProphetSAW used to pray between two Sajdas (prostrations). (Kitab Ibn Maja) All the Muslims supplicate this prayer between two Sajdas in their Salat, but does any one ever think that he is supplicating for his physical ascension to heaven? Or, is there any doubt regarding the Holy ProphetSAW's Rafa'a (exaltation of ranks) despite his sojourn on this very earth?
5. In the Commentary of the Holy Quran known as Tafseer Saafi under the verse Maa Muhammadun Illa Rasool Qad Khalat Min Qablihir Rusul (3:145) the demise of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) has been mentioned in he following words: Hatta Idha Da'a Allaho Nabiyyahoo Wa Rafa'a Hoo Ilaihi--"Until when Allah called His Prophet and exalted him to Himself." Now here are words Rafa'a Hoo Ilaihi used for the Holy ProphetSAW had never been interpreted as his corporal ascension to heaven. Is it not strange and outright blasphemy to interpret the word Rafa'a for the Holy ProphetSAW as exaltation of his ranks, and for JesusAS as his physical ascension to heaven?

‘Isa (as), son of Maryam (as), will be a just judge and just ruler (in my community), break and crush the cross and kill the pig ... The earth will be so filled of peace as a vessel is filled with water. The entire world shall recite and follow one and the same Word and none shall be worshipped except Allah. (Ibn Majah)

As for these hadiths:

"Jabir (radiallahu anh) reported that the Messenger of Allah salallahu 'alayhi wasallam said, "A party of my followers will not cease to fight for victory until the Day of Resurrection. Then Jesus, son of Mary, will come down. Their Imaam will say, "Come and lead our prayer" He will reply, "Some of you are rulers over others on account of divine honour upon these people." (Muslim)

Abu Huraira (radiallahu anh) reported that the Messenger of Allah Peace and blessings be upon him said, "By the one whose hands my life is in, surely the son of Maryam (Peace upon her) will descend amongst you as a just ruler. He will destroy the cross, kill the swine and abolish the tax." (Bukhari)

Hadrat Hudaifah ibn Osaid reported: The Holy Prophet Peace and blessings be upon him suddenly came to us while we were talking. He asked, "What are you talking about?" They replied "We were talking about the last hour." The Prophet (salallahu 'alayhi wasallam) said, "It will never come until you see ten signs before it," He then mentioned the Smoke, the Dajjal, the Beast, the Rising of the Sun in its place of setting, the Descent of Jesus son of Mary and Yajuj and Ma'juj. (Muslim)"

It would have been better if you had also pasted the Arabic text of these hadiths so it would have been easier for anyone who reads these hadiths. My point is about the word the interpretation of the word Nazul.
The word Nazul, it is argued, signifies that Hadhrat JesusAS must come down physically from the high heavens, hence, he is physically alive in heaven. Besides, the Holy ProphetSAW said that the son of Mary will come, so it must be Hadhrat JesusAS himself who should come personally.
In the first place, there is no word Minas-Samaa from heaven, mentioned in the Traditions. No doubt there are two points which need explanation: One Nazool and the other Ibn Maryam. It should be remembered that the word Nazala may mean "he descended" but it cannot by any stretch of meaning, signify "he descended physically from the heavens". There is not the slightest justification for this.
The same word is used about the coming of the Holy ProphetSAW. Says the Holy Quran: Qad Anzalallaho Ilaikum Dhikran Rasoolan Yatloo Alaikum Aayaatillahi--"Allah has indeed sent down to you a Reminder, a Messenger, who recites unto you the clear signs of Allah." (65:11-12) But No one can say that the Holy ProphetSAW came down from the heavens physically.
Then God says: Wa Anzalnal Hadeeda--"And We sent down iron" (57:26), and we know that it is not thrown down from the heavens. Likewise the word Nazool has been mentioned about cattle in 39:7; about raiment in 7:27. Even this word had been used for each and every thing in 15:22 where Allah says: Wa In Min Shai-in Illaa Indinna Khazaainohoo Wa Maa Nonazzilohoo Illaa Biqadarin Ma'aloom--"And there is not a thing but with Us are the treasures thereof and We send it not down except in known measure." Hence, it appears that all things in nature descend from God--are gifted by God--and yet they do not drop from Heaven. Their creation takes place in and on and through this very earth. Therefore, the word Nazool (descend), when used for the coming of the Messiah, can have no other meaning. It can only point to the importance, the blessedness and the spiritual significance of the Promised Messiah. It is not in the least intended to suggest that he would physically drop from Heaven to earth.



This is not even worth answering. You did not answer any points I raised but went on a random rant about me being intellectually dishonest. Well good sir, why don't you show a higher moral point and answer my points about the verses that prove Hazrat Isa (as) is dead, why did you ignore them? I have read the verses before and after them. My points still stand. Apart from those verses that you chose to ignore, what will you do with these hadtihs ?

There is no one alive today but will be dead before a hundred years have passed over it. (Muslim)
If Moses and Jesus had been alive, they would have no choice but to follow me. (ibn Kathir)
If Moses and Jesus had been alive, they would have had to believe in me and follow me. (Tabarani)
Jesus, son of Mary, lived to 120 years. (Tabarani)
Do you not know that our Lord lives for ever while Jesus perished. (Wahidi)
Jesus lived to 120 years. (Kanz al-Ummal)



So sad that you call me liar but don't show where exactly it is that I lied.

Yes he would die when he would return and he would return in Arabia as for Mirza he was a fraud and a cheat just like those who came just after Hazrat MUHAMMAD SAW died

 

[Zarvan]

Please look at this verse in context, it talks about the saying of the Jews, that they ‘did slay the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary!’ Allah Almighty answers them that ‘wa ma Qatalu-hu’ - they slew him not! Then the verse states ‘Wa ma Salabu-hu’ - nor did they crucify him! Here it is stating that Jesus was not crucified on the Cross; he did not die on it, but it does not deny that he could have been put on the Cross, only that he did not die on the Cross!

The Arabic words Maa Salabu-hu do not deny the fact of Hadhrat Jesus'AS being nailed to the Cross but deny his having died on it as is clear from Arabic lexicon. For example they say Salaba Ash-Shaia, i.e., he burned the thing. Salabal Izama means, he extracted the marrow out of the bones. Salabal Lissa means, he crucified the thief, i.e., he put him to death in a certain well-known manner (Lane & Aqrab). In crucifixion one was nailed to a framework made in the form of a cross and, being kept without food and drink, slowly died of pain, hunger, fatigue, and exposure. (This is the definition given in Oxford dictionary of what it 'crucify' means.)

The verse then states ‘Wa lakin Shubbiha La-hum’ - but he was made to appear to them like one crucified! or the matter of the death of Jesus became obscure or dubious to them! The word Shubbiha means, he was made to appear like, or was made to resemble. Now the question arises, who is the person who was made to appear "like one crucified". Clearly it was Hadhrat JesusAS whom the Jews tried to crucify or slay. Nobody else can be meant here, for there is absolutely no reference to any other person in the context. The context cannot be twisted as to make room for somebody else of whom no mention at all is made in the verse. To what then was Hadhrat JesusAS made like? The context provides a clear answer to that question. The Jews did not kill him by crucifixion, but he was made to appear to them like "one crucified", and thus it was that they wrongly took him for dead. It was thus Hadhrat JesusAS who was made to resemble "one crucified".




As a matter of fact the above Arabic words simply mean that Allah exalted him (Hadhrat JesusAS) to Himself. Here the exaltation is the exaltation of the soul of which the Jews were trying to deprive him by putting to death through crucifixion, but Allah frustrated them in their evil designs, as the Holy Bible states: 'He that is hanged on the tree is accursed of God.'(Deuteronomy 21:23)

In the Holy Quran, the Traditions of the Holy ProphetSAW, the Commentaries and in the Arabic idioms, whenever the word Rafa'a is used by Allah for a human being, it always connotes exaltation of ranks and spiritual nearness, because no fixed abode can be, or has ever been, assigned to God as the Holy Quran declares: "And He is Allah, both in the heavens and in the earth." (6:4) "So withersoever you turn, there will be the face of Allah." (2:116) "And We are nearer to him than even his jugular vein." (50:17) Hence, Rafa'a Ilallah does not necessitate one's physical ascension to heaven, rather this Rafa'a--exaltation is achieved on this very earth.
As a matter of fact that word Rafa'a has never been used in the entire Holy Quran nor in the Traditions of the Holy ProphetSAW as a connotation of physical ascension to heaven as is clear from the following references:

1. Wa Lau Shi'naa La Rafa'anaaho Bihaa Wa Laakinnahoo Akhlada Ilal Ardhi--"And if We had pleased, We would have exalted him thereby; but he inclined to the earth." (7:177) Here the commentators are unanimous in their interpretation of the exaltation of the ranks of the referred person. It is never meant to indicate the intention of physically raising up the referred person to heaven.
2. Wa Rafa'anaaho Makaanan Aliyyaa--"And We exalted him (Hadhrat IdrisAS) to lofty station." (19:58) Likewise see: 24:37; 80:14-15; 56:35; 58:12.
3. Idha Tawaza Al-Abdo Rafa'ahollaho Ilas Samaa Is-Saabiati--"When a person shows humility, Allah lifts him up to the seventh heaven." (Kanzul Ummaal Vol. 2, page 53) This Hadith clearly shows that even if the word Samaa (sky) had been used here instead of Allah, the verse could not have meant anything else but spiritual honor and exaltation. Will the non-Ahmadies believe that every act of humility literally lifts a person up to heaven in both body and spirit? Certainly, there can be no bigger folly than such an inference. Why then draw such inference in the case of JesusAS? Why should he be sent up to heaven alive? Was not this earth sufficient for him as the Quran declared: Alam Najalil Arza Kifaatan Ahya'an Wa Amwaatan--"Have We not made the earth sufficient for the living and the dead?" (77:26-27)
4. All the Muslims are aware of the fact that there occurs the word Warfa'anee (and exalt me in ranks) in the prayer which the Holy ProphetSAW used to pray between two Sajdas (prostrations). (Kitab Ibn Maja) All the Muslims supplicate this prayer between two Sajdas in their Salat, but does any one ever think that he is supplicating for his physical ascension to heaven? Or, is there any doubt regarding the Holy ProphetSAW's Rafa'a (exaltation of ranks) despite his sojourn on this very earth?
5. In the Commentary of the Holy Quran known as Tafseer Saafi under the verse Maa Muhammadun Illa Rasool Qad Khalat Min Qablihir Rusul (3:145) the demise of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) has been mentioned in he following words: Hatta Idha Da'a Allaho Nabiyyahoo Wa Rafa'a Hoo Ilaihi--"Until when Allah called His Prophet and exalted him to Himself." Now here are words Rafa'a Hoo Ilaihi used for the Holy ProphetSAW had never been interpreted as his corporal ascension to heaven. Is it not strange and outright blasphemy to interpret the word Rafa'a for the Holy ProphetSAW as exaltation of his ranks, and for JesusAS as his physical ascension to heaven?

‘Isa (as), son of Maryam (as), will be a just judge and just ruler (in my community), break and crush the cross and kill the pig ... The earth will be so filled of peace as a vessel is filled with water. The entire world shall recite and follow one and the same Word and none shall be worshipped except Allah. (Ibn Majah)

As for these hadiths:

"Jabir (radiallahu anh) reported that the Messenger of Allah salallahu 'alayhi wasallam said, "A party of my followers will not cease to fight for victory until the Day of Resurrection. Then Jesus, son of Mary, will come down. Their Imaam will say, "Come and lead our prayer" He will reply, "Some of you are rulers over others on account of divine honour upon these people." (Muslim)

Abu Huraira (radiallahu anh) reported that the Messenger of Allah Peace and blessings be upon him said, "By the one whose hands my life is in, surely the son of Maryam (Peace upon her) will descend amongst you as a just ruler. He will destroy the cross, kill the swine and abolish the tax." (Bukhari)

Hadrat Hudaifah ibn Osaid reported: The Holy Prophet Peace and blessings be upon him suddenly came to us while we were talking. He asked, "What are you talking about?" They replied "We were talking about the last hour." The Prophet (salallahu 'alayhi wasallam) said, "It will never come until you see ten signs before it," He then mentioned the Smoke, the Dajjal, the Beast, the Rising of the Sun in its place of setting, the Descent of Jesus son of Mary and Yajuj and Ma'juj. (Muslim)"

It would have been better if you had also pasted the Arabic text of these hadiths so it would have been easier for anyone who reads these hadiths. My point is about the word the interpretation of the word Nazul.
The word Nazul, it is argued, signifies that Hadhrat JesusAS must come down physically from the high heavens, hence, he is physically alive in heaven. Besides, the Holy ProphetSAW said that the son of Mary will come, so it must be Hadhrat JesusAS himself who should come personally.
In the first place, there is no word Minas-Samaa from heaven, mentioned in the Traditions. No doubt there are two points which need explanation: One Nazool and the other Ibn Maryam. It should be remembered that the word Nazala may mean "he descended" but it cannot by any stretch of meaning, signify "he descended physically from the heavens". There is not the slightest justification for this.
The same word is used about the coming of the Holy ProphetSAW. Says the Holy Quran: Qad Anzalallaho Ilaikum Dhikran Rasoolan Yatloo Alaikum Aayaatillahi--"Allah has indeed sent down to you a Reminder, a Messenger, who recites unto you the clear signs of Allah." (65:11-12) But No one can say that the Holy ProphetSAW came down from the heavens physically.
Then God says: Wa Anzalnal Hadeeda--"And We sent down iron" (57:26), and we know that it is not thrown down from the heavens. Likewise the word Nazool has been mentioned about cattle in 39:7; about raiment in 7:27. Even this word had been used for each and every thing in 15:22 where Allah says: Wa In Min Shai-in Illaa Indinna Khazaainohoo Wa Maa Nonazzilohoo Illaa Biqadarin Ma'aloom--"And there is not a thing but with Us are the treasures thereof and We send it not down except in known measure." Hence, it appears that all things in nature descend from God--are gifted by God--and yet they do not drop from Heaven. Their creation takes place in and on and through this very earth. Therefore, the word Nazool (descend), when used for the coming of the Messiah, can have no other meaning. It can only point to the importance, the blessedness and the spiritual significance of the Promised Messiah. It is not in the least intended to suggest that he would physically drop from Heaven to earth.



This is not even worth answering. You did not answer any points I raised but went on a random rant about me being intellectually dishonest. Well good sir, why don't you show a higher moral point and answer my points about the verses that prove Hazrat Isa (as) is dead, why did you ignore them? I have read the verses before and after them. My points still stand. Apart from those verses that you chose to ignore, what will you do with these hadtihs ?

There is no one alive today but will be dead before a hundred years have passed over it. (Muslim)
If Moses and Jesus had been alive, they would have no choice but to follow me. (ibn Kathir)
If Moses and Jesus had been alive, they would have had to believe in me and follow me. (Tabarani)
Jesus, son of Mary, lived to 120 years. (Tabarani)
Do you not know that our Lord lives for ever while Jesus perished. (Wahidi)
Jesus lived to 120 years. (Kanz al-Ummal)



So sad that you call me liar but don't show where exactly it is that I lied.

Yes he would die when he would return and he would return in Arabia as for Mirza he was a fraud and a cheat just like those who came just after Hazrat MUHAMMAD SAW died

 

[Pakistani E]

Yes he would die when he would return and he would return in Arabia as for Mirza he was a fraud and a cheat just like those who came just after Hazrat MUHAMMAD SAW died

Come now Zarvan, why don't you follow the teachings of Islam and tell me how and why I am wrong and show me the true path. Your actions help no one. Leaving random one liners does little to sway me to your beliefs.

 

[Zarvan]

Come now Zarvan, why don't you follow the teachings of Islam and tell me how and why I am wrong and show me the true path. Your actions help no one. Leaving random one liners does little to sway me to your beliefs.

Hazrat MUHAMMAD SAW is Khatmun Nabiyeen no PROPHET would come after him only Jesus would return but that too return in area off Arabia all those others who claim to be prophets like Kazab Mirza

 

[Bratva]

Please look at this verse in context, it talks about the saying of the Jews, that they ‘did slay the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary!’ Allah Almighty answers them that ‘wa ma Qatalu-hu’ - they slew him not! Then the verse states ‘Wa ma Salabu-hu’ - nor did they crucify him! Here it is stating that Jesus was not crucified on the Cross; he did not die on it, but it does not deny that he could have been put on the Cross, only that he did not die on the Cross!

The Arabic words Maa Salabu-hu do not deny the fact of Hadhrat Jesus'AS being nailed to the Cross but deny his having died on it as is clear from Arabic lexicon. For example they say Salaba Ash-Shaia, i.e., he burned the thing. Salabal Izama means, he extracted the marrow out of the bones. Salabal Lissa means, he crucified the thief, i.e., he put him to death in a certain well-known manner (Lane & Aqrab). In crucifixion one was nailed to a framework made in the form of a cross and, being kept without food and drink, slowly died of pain, hunger, fatigue, and exposure. (This is the definition given in Oxford dictionary of what it 'crucify' means.)

The verse then states ‘Wa lakin Shubbiha La-hum’ - but he was made to appear to them like one crucified! or the matter of the death of Jesus became obscure or dubious to them! The word Shubbiha means, he was made to appear like, or was made to resemble. Now the question arises, who is the person who was made to appear "like one crucified". Clearly it was Hadhrat JesusAS whom the Jews tried to crucify or slay. Nobody else can be meant here, for there is absolutely no reference to any other person in the context. The context cannot be twisted as to make room for somebody else of whom no mention at all is made in the verse. To what then was Hadhrat JesusAS made like? The context provides a clear answer to that question. The Jews did not kill him by crucifixion, but he was made to appear to them like "one crucified", and thus it was that they wrongly took him for dead. It was thus Hadhrat JesusAS who was made to resemble "one crucified".




As a matter of fact the above Arabic words simply mean that Allah exalted him (Hadhrat JesusAS) to Himself. Here the exaltation is the exaltation of the soul of which the Jews were trying to deprive him by putting to death through crucifixion, but Allah frustrated them in their evil designs, as the Holy Bible states: 'He that is hanged on the tree is accursed of God.'(Deuteronomy 21:23)

In the Holy Quran, the Traditions of the Holy ProphetSAW, the Commentaries and in the Arabic idioms, whenever the word Rafa'a is used by Allah for a human being, it always connotes exaltation of ranks and spiritual nearness, because no fixed abode can be, or has ever been, assigned to God as the Holy Quran declares: "And He is Allah, both in the heavens and in the earth." (6:4) "So withersoever you turn, there will be the face of Allah." (2:116) "And We are nearer to him than even his jugular vein." (50:17) Hence, Rafa'a Ilallah does not necessitate one's physical ascension to heaven, rather this Rafa'a--exaltation is achieved on this very earth.
As a matter of fact that word Rafa'a has never been used in the entire Holy Quran nor in the Traditions of the Holy ProphetSAW as a connotation of physical ascension to heaven as is clear from the following references:

1. Wa Lau Shi'naa La Rafa'anaaho Bihaa Wa Laakinnahoo Akhlada Ilal Ardhi--"And if We had pleased, We would have exalted him thereby; but he inclined to the earth." (7:177) Here the commentators are unanimous in their interpretation of the exaltation of the ranks of the referred person. It is never meant to indicate the intention of physically raising up the referred person to heaven.
2. Wa Rafa'anaaho Makaanan Aliyyaa--"And We exalted him (Hadhrat IdrisAS) to lofty station." (19:58) Likewise see: 24:37; 80:14-15; 56:35; 58:12.
3. Idha Tawaza Al-Abdo Rafa'ahollaho Ilas Samaa Is-Saabiati--"When a person shows humility, Allah lifts him up to the seventh heaven." (Kanzul Ummaal Vol. 2, page 53) This Hadith clearly shows that even if the word Samaa (sky) had been used here instead of Allah, the verse could not have meant anything else but spiritual honor and exaltation. Will the non-Ahmadies believe that every act of humility literally lifts a person up to heaven in both body and spirit? Certainly, there can be no bigger folly than such an inference. Why then draw such inference in the case of JesusAS? Why should he be sent up to heaven alive? Was not this earth sufficient for him as the Quran declared: Alam Najalil Arza Kifaatan Ahya'an Wa Amwaatan--"Have We not made the earth sufficient for the living and the dead?" (77:26-27)
4. All the Muslims are aware of the fact that there occurs the word Warfa'anee (and exalt me in ranks) in the prayer which the Holy ProphetSAW used to pray between two Sajdas (prostrations). (Kitab Ibn Maja) All the Muslims supplicate this prayer between two Sajdas in their Salat, but does any one ever think that he is supplicating for his physical ascension to heaven? Or, is there any doubt regarding the Holy ProphetSAW's Rafa'a (exaltation of ranks) despite his sojourn on this very earth?
5. In the Commentary of the Holy Quran known as Tafseer Saafi under the verse Maa Muhammadun Illa Rasool Qad Khalat Min Qablihir Rusul (3:145) the demise of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) has been mentioned in he following words: Hatta Idha Da'a Allaho Nabiyyahoo Wa Rafa'a Hoo Ilaihi--"Until when Allah called His Prophet and exalted him to Himself." Now here are words Rafa'a Hoo Ilaihi used for the Holy ProphetSAW had never been interpreted as his corporal ascension to heaven. Is it not strange and outright blasphemy to interpret the word Rafa'a for the Holy ProphetSAW as exaltation of his ranks, and for JesusAS as his physical ascension to heaven?

‘Isa (as), son of Maryam (as), will be a just judge and just ruler (in my community), break and crush the cross and kill the pig ... The earth will be so filled of peace as a vessel is filled with water. The entire world shall recite and follow one and the same Word and none shall be worshipped except Allah. (Ibn Majah)

As for these hadiths:

"Jabir (radiallahu anh) reported that the Messenger of Allah salallahu 'alayhi wasallam said, "A party of my followers will not cease to fight for victory until the Day of Resurrection. Then Jesus, son of Mary, will come down. Their Imaam will say, "Come and lead our prayer" He will reply, "Some of you are rulers over others on account of divine honour upon these people." (Muslim)

Abu Huraira (radiallahu anh) reported that the Messenger of Allah Peace and blessings be upon him said, "By the one whose hands my life is in, surely the son of Maryam (Peace upon her) will descend amongst you as a just ruler. He will destroy the cross, kill the swine and abolish the tax." (Bukhari)

Hadrat Hudaifah ibn Osaid reported: The Holy Prophet Peace and blessings be upon him suddenly came to us while we were talking. He asked, "What are you talking about?" They replied "We were talking about the last hour." The Prophet (salallahu 'alayhi wasallam) said, "It will never come until you see ten signs before it," He then mentioned the Smoke, the Dajjal, the Beast, the Rising of the Sun in its place of setting, the Descent of Jesus son of Mary and Yajuj and Ma'juj. (Muslim)"

It would have been better if you had also pasted the Arabic text of these hadiths so it would have been easier for anyone who reads these hadiths. My point is about the word the interpretation of the word Nazul.
The word Nazul, it is argued, signifies that Hadhrat JesusAS must come down physically from the high heavens, hence, he is physically alive in heaven. Besides, the Holy ProphetSAW said that the son of Mary will come, so it must be Hadhrat JesusAS himself who should come personally.
In the first place, there is no word Minas-Samaa from heaven, mentioned in the Traditions. No doubt there are two points which need explanation: One Nazool and the other Ibn Maryam. It should be remembered that the word Nazala may mean "he descended" but it cannot by any stretch of meaning, signify "he descended physically from the heavens". There is not the slightest justification for this.
The same word is used about the coming of the Holy ProphetSAW. Says the Holy Quran: Qad Anzalallaho Ilaikum Dhikran Rasoolan Yatloo Alaikum Aayaatillahi--"Allah has indeed sent down to you a Reminder, a Messenger, who recites unto you the clear signs of Allah." (65:11-12) But No one can say that the Holy ProphetSAW came down from the heavens physically.
Then God says: Wa Anzalnal Hadeeda--"And We sent down iron" (57:26), and we know that it is not thrown down from the heavens. Likewise the word Nazool has been mentioned about cattle in 39:7; about raiment in 7:27. Even this word had been used for each and every thing in 15:22 where Allah says: Wa In Min Shai-in Illaa Indinna Khazaainohoo Wa Maa Nonazzilohoo Illaa Biqadarin Ma'aloom--"And there is not a thing but with Us are the treasures thereof and We send it not down except in known measure." Hence, it appears that all things in nature descend from God--are gifted by God--and yet they do not drop from Heaven. Their creation takes place in and on and through this very earth. Therefore, the word Nazool (descend), when used for the coming of the Messiah, can have no other meaning. It can only point to the importance, the blessedness and the spiritual significance of the Promised Messiah. It is not in the least intended to suggest that he would physically drop from Heaven to earth.



This is not even worth answering. You did not answer any points I raised but went on a random rant about me being intellectually dishonest. Well good sir, why don't you show a higher moral point and answer my points about the verses that prove Hazrat Isa (as) is dead, why did you ignore them? I have read the verses before and after them. My points still stand. Apart from those verses that you chose to ignore, what will you do with these hadtihs ?

There is no one alive today but will be dead before a hundred years have passed over it. (Muslim)
If Moses and Jesus had been alive, they would have no choice but to follow me. (ibn Kathir)
If Moses and Jesus had been alive, they would have had to believe in me and follow me. (Tabarani)
Jesus, son of Mary, lived to 120 years. (Tabarani)
Do you not know that our Lord lives for ever while Jesus perished. (Wahidi)
Jesus lived to 120 years. (Kanz al-Ummal)



So sad that you call me liar but don't show where exactly it is that I lied.

Would you take your time and read these below mentioned links. These are short, concise and to the point rebuttals of your arguments raised. Arguments presented in them is properly referenced with Arabic hadiths and Link is not derogatory in any way to your faith. After reading these links, I hope we will continue our debate.


1. Jesus-lived-for-120-years-qadiani argument

Muhammad: The Last Prophet: Jesus lived for 120 years.? A Qadiani argument

2. Physical-ascension-of- Jesus(A.S)

Muhammad: The Last Prophet: Physical Ascension of Jesus (PBUH) From Hadith

3.Return of Jesus (PBUH) Nazul or Ruju?

Muhammad: The Last Prophet: Return of Jesus (PBUH) Nazul or Ruju?

4.Jesus (PBUH) Will Descend From Samaa (Skies)

Muhammad: The Last Prophet: Jesus (PBUH) Will Descend From Samaa (Skies)


And did you bother to read Sahih Muslim Book 41, Number 7015 and 7023 hadith? This hadith talks about Jesus (A.S) desencd from heaven on to a minaret of syrian mosque.

The Book of Tribulations and Portents of the Last Hour - Sahih Muslim - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم) ( Arabic text along with english translation. Search 7015 and 7023)

".........................Allah would send Christ, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damscus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it up, beads like pearls would scatter from it. Every non-believer who would smell the odour of his self would die and his breath would reach as far as he would be able to see. He would then search for him (Dajjal) until he would catch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and would kill him. Then a people whom Allah had protected would come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he would wipe their faces and would inform them of their ranks in Paradise and it would be under such conditions that Allah would reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from amongst My servants such people against whom none would be.............. "


This is a part of a long hadith of 7015.

 

[Pakistani E]

Would you take your time and read these below mentioned links. These are short, concise and to the point rebuttals of your arguments raised. Arguments presented in them is properly referenced with Arabic hadiths and Link is not derogatory in any way to your faith. After reading these links, I hope we will continue our debate.


1. Jesus-lived-for-120-years-qadiani argument

Muhammad: The Last Prophet: Jesus lived for 120 years.? A Qadiani argument

2. Physical-ascension-of- Jesus(A.S)

Muhammad: The Last Prophet: Physical Ascension of Jesus (PBUH) From Hadith

3.Return of Jesus (PBUH) Nazul or Ruju?

Muhammad: The Last Prophet: Return of Jesus (PBUH) Nazul or Ruju?

4.Jesus (PBUH) Will Descend From Samaa (Skies)

Muhammad: The Last Prophet: Jesus (PBUH) Will Descend From Samaa (Skies)


And did you bother to read Sahih Muslim Book 41, Number 7015 and 7023 hadith? This hadith talks about Jesus (A.S) desencd from heaven on to a minaret of syrian mosque.

The Book of Tribulations and Portents of the Last Hour - Sahih Muslim - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم) ( Arabic text along with english translation. Search 7015 and 7023)

".........................Allah would send Christ, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damscus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it up, beads like pearls would scatter from it. Every non-believer who would smell the odour of his self would die and his breath would reach as far as he would be able to see. He would then search for him (Dajjal) until he would catch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and would kill him. Then a people whom Allah had protected would come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he would wipe their faces and would inform them of their ranks in Paradise and it would be under such conditions that Allah would reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from amongst My servants such people against whom none would be.............. "


This is a part of a long hadith of 7015.

I guess you ignored everything I wrote and went and found more hadiths which prove your point. Albeit some of those hadiths you posted are weak themselves. But I guess that doesn't stop you, because as long as the hadith agrees with your points its sahih. Why don't you first answer some of my points then I'll answer some of your yours? Especially those verses I explained, or the other hadith I posted which you ignored? You can't expect me to take this discussion seriously if you are not answering my points but expect me to answer yours. Three previous posts of mine you have ignored and just gone and found other things to discuss. Talk about them first then we'll come on to these.

(Don't worry, I have already prepared an answer for half of the things in this post as well, I'm just curious though if you are going to answer any of my points.)

 

[Bratva]

I guess you ignored everything I wrote and went and found more hadiths which prove your point. Albeit some of those hadiths you posted are weak themselves. But I guess that doesn't stop you, because as long as the hadith agrees with your points its sahih. Why don't you first answer some of my points then I'll answer some of your yours? Especially those verses I explained, or the other hadith I posted which you ignored? You can't expect me to take this discussion seriously if you are not answering my points but expect me to answer yours. Three previous posts of mine you have ignored and just gone and found other things to discuss. Talk about them first then we'll come on to these.

(Don't worry, I have already prepared an answer for half of the things in this post as well, I'm just curious though if you are going to answer any of my points.)

The first rule of interpreting the quranic verses is in light of Ahadith. I have proved that In light of Ahadith, whatever your interpretations are wrong. You are playing semantics that Words in ayaah means this, so it should mean this. In order to interpret an ayah, you look towards ahadith, then towards the situation it was came for, then go for the words, you ignore first two, and straightly went for the third

And secondly how convenient, you are calling hadiths, weak narrations when you yourself presented hadiths which are rejected due to weak narrations ?

So Why should I answer your points, which are just arguing the arabic words of verses means this or that when Scholars before Mirza ghulam have defined, interpreted them with proper chain of narrations?