Lahore Police Academy crises over | One gunman, five collaborators arrested

[Solomon2]

That mindset continued.

In 1984 India violated the Simla Agreement to invade Siachen. They also supported the Baluch insurgency and then the Northern Alliance to counter Pakistan in Afghanistan, before Afghanistan ever started being used to train Kashmiri Freedom Fighters.

Supporting the N.A. may be anti-Pushtun, but it wasn't anti-Pakistani. I don't know much about the Siachen conflict, save that it is the highest battlefield in the world. I'd like to see proof of India's support of the Baluch insurgency.

The only problem is your blatant hypocrisy in lecturing to Pakistanis about proving India's guilt while ranting about confirmed Pakistani institutional involvement, and asking Pakistanis to prove a negative. You can either retract your absurd argument of 'Pakistani institutions proving their innocence rather than others proving their guilt', or refrain from asking Pakistanis for 'proof establishing India's guilt'. You can't have it both ways.

No. It is up to Pakistan to establish a way to build trust with its Western interlocutors once more. (Why do I use that word? I'm not a diplomat! Just been around them too long, I guess.)

 

[rubyjackass]

Where do you think he is getting the funding from.

Emerald fields I guess..

 

[RescueRanger]

Absolutely right! Did you know that the best friend of one medieval Italian prince was his halberd? He used it to spear messengers bearing bad news. One can measure the success of this approach by counting the number of Italian princes that remain today.

I will add a modest suggestion, if I may: Pakistan should pay more attention to public diplomacy by putting its case before foreign audiences and responding to their concerns and questions. As it stands now, Baitullah and the Indians are creaming Pakistan on this battlefield.

Please take this half baked analysis elsewhere. Foreign Observers should take a walk down memory lane and examine their own inadequacies in Afghanistan for example. And now that it is totally pot shaped you all are doing what you do best, (playing the blame game) and this time Pakistan is your pasty.

At least your President has enough common-sense and character to acknowledged the United States is not winning the war in Afghanistan:
Search - Global Edition - The New York Times

So like i said before, you tend to your back garden and we will tend to ours.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I'd like to see proof of India's support of the Baluch insurgency.

I'd like to see proof that top Pakistani officials were involved in supporting terrorism, or that any Pakistani institution (as a matter of policy) was involved in the Mumbai attacks.

No. It is up to Pakistan to establish a way to build trust with its Western interlocutors once more. (Why do I use that word? I'm not a diplomat! Just been around them too long, I guess.)

Building trust with Western interlocutors will continue a its own pace, as constraints and issues on both sides are addressed - Mullen and Hollbrooke engaging with India for example.

Beyond that, to ask for evidence from Pakistanis for Indian support for terrorism while not asking the same of Indians or the US is blatant hypocrisy.

So, enough with the double standards, though given US Foreign Policy that isn't really surprising.

 

[Energon]

I'd like to see proof that top Pakistani officials were involved in supporting terrorism, or that any Pakistani institution (as a matter of policy) was involved in the Mumbai attacks.


Building trust with Western interlocutors will continue a its own pace, as constraints and issues on both sides are addressed - Mullen and Hollbrooke engaging with India for example.

Beyond that, to ask for evidence from Pakistanis for Indian support for terrorism while not asking the same of Indians or the US is blatant hypocrisy.

So, enough with the double standards, though given US Foreign Policy that isn't really surprising.

I really don't know the details of your argument with Solomon and have no intention of stepping into it either.

But I would like to address this important issue which you have raised.

The relationship between Pakistan's support for terrorism against India vs the reciprocal is not equitable by any means. Not only has this fact been established after numerous years of investigation by multiple parties, but it is being presented all over Washington DC and New York (UN) to a barrage of leaders (at least the influential ones that matter) as we speak. Having said that, there is no point in rehashing this argument over and over again considering that the Pakistani establishment has promised to take corrective action in light of the pressure brought about after the Mumbai terrorist attack.

This particular incident doesn't seem directly connected to India, and while a thorough investigation needs to be conducted, wasting time on false leads for the sake of populist propaganda will end up being a deterrent to the actual objective at hand (which has now become an acute existential crisis).

Again, do not mean to derail thread, please carry on.

 

[Awesome]

Just heard on TV 5 other major collaborators have been arrested. And its assumed that some of the injured in hospitals are also part of the terrorist crew, so they've not released a single injured person out of the hospital.

 

[Omar1984]

5 more persons involved in Manawan attack arrested

Updated at: 2237 PST, Tuesday, March 31, 2009


LAHORE: Five more persons, involved in the terror attack here in Manawan, were arrested from various areas of Lahore.

Sources said that these arrests were made on pointing out by a terrorist Hijratullah, who was arrested from Manawan.

These persons were arrested from the areas of Bhati, Harbanspura, Data Darbar and Nishter Colony.

Arms and ammunition, fake NICs and hand grenades were d recovered in huge quantity from these persons.

According to the sources, Hijratullah himself was residing in a rented house in Walton, an area of Lahore while he had told his landlord that he was going to China for purchasing children’s toys and sell in Lahore.

5 more persons involved in Manawan attack arrested - GEO.tv

 

[Omar1984]

^ By the way, Hijratullah is the name of the Afghan terrorist who tried to attack the Pakistani police helicopter.

 

[xtremeracingzone]

View attachment 86350242553d53da5d3d72fea83ba1af.jpg

 

[wtf]

View attachment 86350242553d53da5d3d72fea83ba1af.jpg

Great pic, but a comment on the aesthetics. If I were making a poster, I would get rid of the helicopter in the middle - it is surrounded by smoke and has nose pointing down. That makes it looks like it is crashing or something. I would at least suggest getting a pic of a helicopter in green camo, that way it would stand apart from the smoke.

(Again, no insult meant to Pak Army or creators).

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The relationship between Pakistan's support for terrorism against India vs the reciprocal is not equitable by any means. Not only has this fact been established after numerous years of investigation by multiple parties, but it is being presented all over Washington DC and New York (UN) to a barrage of leaders (at least the influential ones that matter) as we speak. Having said that, there is no point in rehashing this argument over and over again considering that the Pakistani establishment has promised to take corrective action in light of the pressure brought about after the Mumbai terrorist attack.

Had any 'facts' establishing support for terrorism in India by Pakistani institutions been established by anyone, we would see clear cut evidence of it. Continuously harping about so and so believing in this or that is not evidence and not a 'fact' - its argumentum ad populum. The Kashmiri freedom movement is not terrorism, and the GoP has not supported the actions of any groups beyond that.

So again, where exactly is this 'accumulated weight of evidence'?

On 'equitable' relationships - I agree, there is no comparison between the blatant support for terrorism in East Pakistan, a sovereign part of Pakistan, and the subsequent military invasion to break it apart. You might compare that to Kashmir, though Kashmir is disputed territory not Indian, but beyond that I fail to see what you evidence you base your argument upon that it is Pakistan that has been the greater aggressor against India by any substantial degree.

Going back to the argumentum ad populum - for years Pakistani institutions have been slandered in the Western press, analysts, think tanks, hacks quoting 'anonymous intelligence sources', all painting a picture of absolute Pakistani guilt in tangibly supporting the Taliban against ISAF. You yourself have made this argument, of the majority of 'experts and diplomats' you have met spouting the same story time and again.

And after almost a decade of blame games, slander, accusations, surveillance of Pakistani consulates in Afghanistan, its institutions in Pakistan and elsewhere, what does Gen. Patraeus tell us?

BAIER: A big part of this strategy is the Pakistan side. Do you see evidence that the Pakistani military or the intelligence service — the ISI — is assisting the Taliban and Al Qaeda?

PETRAEUS: Well, let's remember the history. The intelligence services, the ISI, with our money and equipment and resources back during the days of the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, built many of these Mujahideen organizations that sadly have now turned on Pakistani forces and authorities, assassinated Benazir Bhutto, and have killed hundreds of innocent Pakistani civilians.

There are some relationships that continue. It is not as clear as one would like. There's certainly additional focus on that. Obviously, we've had these conversations with our counterparts, with the head of ISI, Lieutenant General Pasha, and others. There is a case in the past year or so that we think was unambiguous. There appears to have been a warning prior to a Pakistani operation.

The others though are a little bit less clear in the sense that any intelligence organization has contacts with extremist groups because they're trying to recruit sources among them. And we do the same thing.

BAIER: But do you trust the Pakistanis? Do you trust them?

PETRAEUS: I think we are building that kind of trust. And that's the way I think is the best description for that. And it's hugely important that that trust be built.

There's a number of initiatives ongoing in that regard. There's a joint coordination center, for example, that is a tripartite: It's Afghan, Pakistan and U.S. forces just near the Khyber Pass in which there is gradually increasing intelligence sharing going on. And there have been some breakthroughs in that area in recent weeks.

There's additional work supporting, always enabling, assisting and providing for the Pakistani Frontier Corps in particular, and the military, but not doing. And that's the way I think that every one wants this to go forward.

FOXNews.com - Exclusive: General David Petraeus Discusses Mission in Afghanistan - Special Report w/ Bret Baier

After ten years of slander, Patraeus says the US has one friggen 'unambiguous' case in the last year! One!

And what does he say about the ISI and PA maintaining contacts with some Taliban factions, the other oft bandied about accusation?

Patraeus: 'And we do the same thing.'

Fck this ****!

Constant accusations and maligning of Pakistan for almost a decade boils down to this. Complete BS.

This particular incident doesn't seem directly connected to India, and while a thorough investigation needs to be conducted, wasting time on false leads for the sake of populist propaganda will end up being a deterrent to the actual objective at hand (which has now become an acute existential crisis).

I haven't said anything on this count, other than to ask people to wait for the investigation results before pointing fingers. My argument with Solomon is over his blatant double standards in lecturing to Pakistanis about providing evidence to prove Indian culpability, while refusing to apply the same principle to accusations against Pakistan.

 

[gromell]

Wednesday, April 1, 2009
News Analysis

Pak police ill-equipped against terror ​

Afp, Karachi

A spectacular commando-style assault on a Pakistani police training school and a wave of suicide attacks have exposed a cash-strapped force woefully incapable of fighting insurgents, experts say.

Most officers are ill-trained, poorly educated and badly paid -- a regular constable's salary is just 100 dollars a month, and his family is paid 6,000 dollars if he is killed in the line of duty.

They are also badly equipped, lacking the resources even for what in many countries would be regarded as basic police work.

"Our police have miserably inadequate resources for combating terrorism," acknowledged Sharfuddin Memon, who heads the Citizen-Police Liaison Committee, a state-run crime watchdog.

"They have been in this war without proper equipment and skill."

Security forces, elite squads, the army and police took nearly eight hours Monday to overpower a group of attackers who stormed a police training school near the eastern city of Lahore.

Eight police recruits were killed in the fierce firefight, highlighting the particular dangers that security forces face.

Pakistan's regular police force numbers 383,000, according to figures from the National Police Bureau, out of a population of more than 160 million.

The country has been hammered by extremist violence blamed on Taliban- and al-Qaeda-linked militants -- suicide and bomb blasts have killed nearly 1,700 people in the last two years.

Police are a favourite target. The Police Bureau says the number of attacks against officers soared from 113 in 2005 to 1,820 in 2007.

Last Friday a suicide bomber attacked a packed mosque in the northwest town of Jamrud whose main congregation was tribal police and paramilitary, killing around 50 people.

A top police official in the flashpoint North West Frontier Province said even the Islamic extremists paid better.

"Terrorists pay 15,000 rupees (187 dollars) each to their soldiers and pay the families of suicide bombers three times what a policeman's family gets," the official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

Yet the police are so technologically under-resourced that the military or intelligence agencies frequently need to be called in, even to trace a mobile phone call.

"This is a minimum requirement for police," the Liaison Committee's Memon admitted. "They lack adequate technological support, technical expertise and professional training."

Police estimate they need at least 75 forensic laboratories countrywide -- but currently have just six.

President Asif Ali Zardari told parliament last week that Pakistan had set up a special constabulary to fight terror, saying the country faced "security challenges that need to be addressed urgently."

He said that with the help of the Friends of Pakistan, the government would raise 20,000 additional police in each province with special equipment and pay packages.

The Friends of Pakistan group includes China, Western and Arab nations and is sponsored by the United Nations.

Like Pakistan's military and paramilitary troops, a lack of available cash has been identified as the key problem for police.

Four months ago, the International Monetary Fund approved a standby loan of 7.6 billion dollars to stop Islamabad defaulting on its debts.

Pakistan clings to the lifeline of 7.5 billion dollars of aid over the next five years which US President Barack Obama has urged Congress to approve, but it remains unclear what conditions will be attached to the money.

Interior ministry chief Rehman Malik said that on top of better technology, there was an urgent need for skilled policemen able to seize would-be suicide bombers and snuff out terror plots before they come to fruition.

"The threats are perpetual," he told AFP, but said they could be countered "with effective measures."

Memon said police should invest in security cameras inside and outside all important installations, sensitive areas and thoroughfares, though that would take money Pakistan can barely afford.

Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira said Islamabad had appealed for help from international donors to finance improvements to the police force.

"We are resolute to get our police modernised and well-equipped," he said.

 

[Imran Khan]

Were is securty in pakistan its looking like most dangrus place of world is now pakistan afghanistan.no one secure pablic police army god bless us all .we cant hope good now because these problims create by ourself now we have to face this jihad which we start in 80s.

 

[hembo]

Were is securty in pakistan its looking like most dangrus place of world is now pakistan afghanistan.no one secure pablic police army god bless us all .we cant hope good now because these problims create by ourself now we have to face this jihad which we start in 80s.

Imran bhai, don't loose hope. Things are changing slowly and very soon we'll all come out of this hopelessness and our childrens will live in peace, safe and improved future. Just pray to your Allah that he gives us all the insight to see beyond some shallow issues, which are ruining our children's future.

Also, most of todays generations have started to realize one thing from half a century of terrorrism, be it US/ India/ Pakistan/ Israel/ Palestinian sponspored, have never been able to resolve any issues. So no matter for whatever justifiable reason, terrorrism can never be a tool and never to be pursued by anyone. It only brings misery to someone or the other.

 

[ajpirzada]

Indian experts shower praises on Pakistani media, authorities

* Say Pakistani coverage of police acadamy attack far better than India’s

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: Indian security experts have praised Islamabad for conducting a successful operation against terrorists and the Pakistani media for its coverage of the terrorist attack at a police training college in Lahore on Monday with the ‘highest degree of professionalism and without raising hackles’.

The experts are particularly praising the media for showing restraint during the coverage of the Lahore attack – which is in stark contrast to the Indian media’s coverage of the Mumbai attacks.

Even a senior Indian government official had fulsome praise for the coordination and swift response of the Pakistani authorities. “Within half-an-hour, they had blocked all roads with barbed wire, cutting off every chance of escape,” he said.

Further, the security experts have taken notice of the fact that Pakistanis ended the crisis within a few hours – which is also in sharp contrast to what happened in Mumbai: the elite National Security Guards (NSG) took nine hours to reach the city to start its operation.

Unlike Mumbai, the experts here say they did not see breathless reporters enacting dramas while ducking and scrambling amid the gunfire. There was no live commentary that could have put the lives of commandos in danger. They charged that the ‘chaotic media’ had played into the hands of terrorists in Mumbai by reporting graphic descriptions of commando positions and operations. In Lahore, authorities had refused to allow reporters within 300 metres of the site of the attack.

“Three things were distinctly different from the coverage in India: the Pakistani media didn’t jump to conclusions about India being responsible for the attacks, they didn’t jump the gun about the attackers’ identity, they did not air outrageously large numbers of casualties ... the media didn’t go overboard,” said a senior security analyst here.

Ajai Sahni – director of the Institute for Conflict Management and India’s foremost expert on terrorism – said the restraint shown by the Pakistani media was laudable. “During the Mumbai attacks, the Indian media not only acted as the third eye for the terrorists and their handlers, they created psychological pressure for the forces by making irrational demands for immediate results based on half-baked information,” he said. He said the attitude of the Indian media had created hysteria and brought unwanted political pressure on the security forces.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan