Ladakh incursion: China scores bloodless victory over India, more intrusion

[Pulsar]

I had written it in another thread.

Indian army created bunkers in Chumar which violated one of the peace agreements India has with China, and not only did the army create those bunkers but also started aggressive patrolling in Chumar. At the same time, the army did not take the government into confidence before indulging in such provocative behaviour.

The Chinese got frightened at aggressive posturing by Indian army in Chumar, hence they retaliated by ingressing into Daulat beg oldi where India is disadvantaged geographically.

Indian army needs to exercise restraint. There is no need to replicate the aggression of the LOC onto the LAC.

Spot on! The problem with our blessed media is that it always paints a one sided biased picture for TRP ratings and thus avoids telling the truth and nothing but the truth! And then we have half wits like the author Brahma Chellaney who continue to spew nonsense.

The fact that all must know is that Indian troops are no pushovers who meekly withdrew or were made to withdraw by our government under Chinese pressure. It was the Indian army that created bunkers in Chumar in violation of an agreement with China. And yes, the IA also started aggressive patrolling in Chumar and areas well ahead into Chinese claimed territory.

This 'aggressive patrolling' is the norm and not an exception. The Chinese finally got apprehensive at the increase of IA movements well inside its claimed territory which forced them to take the action they did.

These patrols are routine and thus not incumbent to keep the government in the loop whenever a patrol goes out. The 'bunkers' in question which were dismantled were in the so called no-man's land which is required to be kept free of any deployment or constructions whatsoever as per the agreement. This 'tin shed' was basically constructed as a patrol base for such patrols to spend the nights there instead of trudging all the way back. Further, that particular location also dominated the area where the Chinese were deployed a few km away and from where the complete movements of the Chinese could be seen and logged.

This got the Chinese goat which resulted in the stand-off.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Actually, if many havent noticed one thing, after MMS increased his trip to Japan by one more day (without any official engagement), Chinese became alarmed, and came to the ground.
The Japan card is what India needs to play well in future.

 

[cyphercide]

I don't think India is in the mind of China when it comes to East Asia or South China Sea. China is more worry about the reaction of the US than India.

The question isn't one of mutual fear but one on how to strategically outmaneuver the other. It's about finding the requisite pressure points and making your adversary tap out.

Note how the rights of navigation in the South China Sea don't seem so important when Chinese troops waltz in through the front door.

Note how after its message was made, China immediately offered to make amends, which is a courtesy it doesn't extend to many. It also proves that China's issue wasn't territory related or instigated in the name of some tin sheds that the IA erected.

That said, China would be looking to tie up all loose ends by the time the United States parks its naval assets in Asia on a permanent basis. Tensions like these are precisely what the Americans would want to leverage to their advantage.

 

[faithfulguy]

The question isn't one of mutual fear but one on how to strategically outmaneuver the other. It's about finding the requisite pressure points and making your adversary tap out.

Note how the rights of navigation in the South China Sea don't seem so important when Chinese troops waltz in through the front door.

Note how after its message was made, China immediately offered to make amends, which is a courtesy it doesn't extend to many. It also proves that China's issue wasn't territory related or instigated in the name of some tin sheds that the IA erected.

That said, China would be looking to tie up all loose ends by the time the United States parks its naval assets in Asia on a permanent basis. Tensions like these are precisely what the Americans would want to leverage to their advantage.

Since you are from Singapore, you know the famous quote, or one of the famous quote, from Singapore elder statesman Lee Kuan Yew. He stated (loosely paraphrased) that all the Asian countries join together cannot counter China without US assistance in 15 years. And he made this statement almost 10 years ago. And this Lee guy is a smart fellow and many people believe him.

If this is the case, what do you think China would do to become the most influential player in Asia and what should India do to prevent this from happening?

 

[cyphercide]

Since you are from Singapore, you know the famous quote, or one of the famous quote, from Singapore elder statesman Lee Kuan Yew. He stated (loosely paraphrased) that all the Asian countries join together cannot counter China without US assistance in 15 years. And he made this statement almost 10 years ago. And this Lee guy is a smart fellow and many people believe him.

If this is the case, what do you think China would do to become the most influential player in Asia and what should India do to prevent this from happening?

I am not from Singapore and I am unaware of such a statement made by Mr. Lee.

In my personal opinion, China's foreign policy runs on a high degree of presumptuousness. It has been right so far in gauging reactions but it need not be so every time. The other disturbing factor that one takes away from this incident is that China is willing to use force and embarrass foreign leaderships just to prove a point. Even ones that have been overly friendly towards their cause.

China is already the most influential player in Asia which is why most of its belligerence is tolerated. There is nothing India can do about it. All we can do is negotiate for a more egalitarian relationship.

 

[cyphercide]

Why listen to these dumb journos?

There are official statements to this:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...eat-indian-troops-after-chinese-incursio.html

Was Mr. Khurshid's voice box on vacation when Chinese troops sat on top of our chest? Now, he talks tough when Chinese retreated in accordance to the terms they set!!! It's interesting to note that Marxist leaders were jailed for stating the same treacherous things in 1962 that Congress leaders say today. Perhaps our sense of self respect has bottomed out during the years of UPA governance.

So if the bjp was in power they would declare war ? fire their missiles and invite a counterattack in which thousands of lives would be lost . not to mention the economy would be pushed back by a decade. .... i guess that what you want?

So there simply were no alternatives to mediate between the sheer cowardice the Congress leadership exhibited and a declaration of war with the Chinese, huh?

Whatever happened to downgrading diplomatic ties, calling off visits and standing your ground to aid negotiations?

We all owe our lives to Mr. Manmohan Singh as he saved us Indians from a Chinese missile offensive by doing absolutely nothing!!!

If only the ruling government assigned a mountain strike corps sooner or delegated essential funds for infrastructure along the border........What? That counts as a blunder on the part of the UPA too?

Who would've guessed?

 

[Umair Nawaz]

India is being trolled big time by China

 

[Luffy 500]

Told U china will get what it wants and they got it no matter how much India denies it. They depend on china way to much on aspect of trade and commerce and add to that china's overwhelming unparalleled conventional superiority vis-vis India , a astronomical ever increasing gap India can never even dream to close in a million years. The best solution would be to hand over ladakh and south tibet to PRC as these territories are disputed from the british Raj to begin with.

 

[cyphercide]

Told U china will get what it wants and they got it no matter how much India denies it. They depend on china way to much on aspect of trade and commerce and add to that china's overwhelming unparalleled conventional superiority vis-vis India , a astronomical ever increasing gap India can never even dream to close in a million years. The best solution would be to hand over ladakh and south tibet to PRC as these territories are disputed from the british Raj to begin with.

I don't understand. What relevance does a Bangladeshi opinion hold over such matters? Stick to what you people know, golgappe and sweatshops.

 

[Luffy 500]

I don't understand. What relevance does a Bangladeshi opinion hold over such matters? Stick to what you people know, golgappe and sweatshops.

This is not solely an Indian matter as it involves china as well.

Btw, U folks don't seem to stick to what U know and poke noses on every single matter concerning other countries like BD. Hypocrisy much.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Told U china will get what it wants and they got it no matter how much India denies it. They depend on china way to much on aspect of trade and commerce and add to that china's overwhelming unparalleled conventional superiority vis-vis India , a astronomical ever increasing gap India can never even dream to close in a million years. The best solution would be to hand over ladakh and south tibet to PRC as these territories are disputed from the british Raj to begin with.

You know I thank you for writing things like the ones in bold. It will ensure to any neutral reader let alone Indian that what you are writing is one sided biased crap and not take your BS seriously. Makes the entire post useless.

At least try to make it sound a little unbiased even when you are typing horse poo to make it a little believable.

 

[Luffy 500]

You know I thank you for writing things like the ones in bold. It will ensure to any neutral reader let alone Indian that what you are writing is one sided biased crap and not take your BS seriously. Makes the entire post useless.

At least try to make it sound a little unbiased even when you are typing horse poo to make it a little believable.

These are words from your own military officials

India-China military gap
Don’t have capability or intention to match China force for force: Navy chief - Indian Express

Any way , India is a great superpower who will outpace china. There I said so that U can sleep better.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

These are words from your own military officials

India-China military gap
Don’t have capability or intention to match China force for force: Navy chief - Indian Express

Any way , India is a great superpower who will outpace china. There I said so that U can sleep better.

No body is denying the military gap between India and China , it's the exaggeration of it that made your post funny.

Anyway, nice try cheerleading. Try harder next time.

 

[cyphercide]

This is not solely an Indian matter as it involves china as well.

Btw, U folks don't seem to stick to what U know and poke noses on every single matter concerning other countries like BD. Hypocrisy much.

So? Do Chinese comrades equate the same as Bangladeshi brothers these days? What about BD accepting vessels from the US Navy? Or is the understanding ongoing as long as BD accepts US presence in their ports?

Yep. The big boys are talking. Keep quiet and learn to earn token benefits.

 

[Jayanta]

Usually i don't follow hawks like Brahma Chellaney. unless the current standoff was due to India violating any agreement i would disagree with him.

If current Govt is comfortable with such compromises, then better be prepared for more such incursions and Kargils.

Come on there are two choices for both countries: 1. Blood (War over a piece of land) 2. Money (Make money by encouraging trade). hope government and people of both countries are wise enough to decide what they need.