KLJ 7 A and ELM 2052 Radar

[Pakistani Fighter]

170 km for targets of 5 m²

At how much km would it detect SU 30MKI and Rafale?

 

[Skull and Bones]

How can range be different when maximum power output is same. Power output and range are directly related and same technology is being used.

depends on SNR (signal to noise ratio) of the receiver modules and the post processing of signals by the onboard computers.

 

[Shabi1]

At how much km would it detect SU 30MKI and Rafale?

That is a very complex query with no definite answer because of impact of loadout on RCS, RCS is different for aspect of jet and the fact that target aircraft radar if ON the emissions give away location of the jet way before the normal detection ranges.

SU-30MKI would be detected way beyond the 170km(5m2) quoted range because of its massive RCS even in clean profile and not factoring it's radar emissions. EW wont help much here. Even regular JF-17s and F-16s have shown this.

Rafael and JF-17 would probably be able to detect each other at roughly the same time. approx 70km but this is just a guess. Both jets have RCS reduction mechanisms for eg (JF-17 DSI intakes, smaller size, composites & EW suite/Rafael composites & Spectra etc). PAFs exercises pitting its JF-17s against Qatari Rafales does mean they have data on detection ranges and how to devise tactics.

So would be pitting pilot vs pilot. This is why US has downplayed BVR missile range importance when evenly matched modern jets are face to face as in practicality most probability of engagement is within 100km.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

approx 70km

It means once detected and locked pl 15 or meteor can have a confirm kill

 

[Shabi1]

It means once detected and locked pl 15 or meteor can have a confirm kill

Yes both would be within the NEZ of each other infact can be regular SD-10 too.
My own opinion is JF-17 Vs Rafale both sides would shoot in fire and forget mode and then turn away/perform evasion and let the missile go to pitbull mode that is engage using own radar without aircraft input.

Again a very uncertain scenario as AA combat has too many variables, PL-15 has a better AESA seeker (Chinese are at forefront in AESA miniaturization) with greater fuel but the meteor has conventional AD4A family seeker similar to MICA/Aster paired with pulse motor.

Till now the Meteor was touted more advance because of its pulse propulsion motor but according to wikipedia PL-15 also has a pulse motor.

Upto pilot training and tactics.

One bonus for PAF is because of common Link 17 datalink a AWAC could provide additional guidance for the missile. So network centricness would be the force multiplier.

 

[Rafale+Meteor+Spectra]

Yes both would be within the NEZ of each other infact can be regular SD-10 too.
My own opinion is JF-17 Vs Rafale both sides would shoot in fire and forget mode and then turn away/perform evasion and let the missile go to pitbull mode that is engage using own radar without aircraft input.

Again a very uncertain scenario as AA combat has too many variables, PL-15 has a better AESA seeker (Chinese are at forefront in AESA miniaturization) with greater fuel but the meteor has conventional AD4A family seeker similar to MICA/Aster paired with pulse motor.

Till now the Meteor was touted more advance because of its pulse propulsion motor but according to wikipedia PL-15 also has a pulse motor.

Upto pilot training and tactics.

One bonus for PAF is because of common Link 17 datalink a AWAC could provide additional guidance for the missile. So network centricness would be the force multiplier.

JF-17 Blk 3 will never be able to detect Rafale on radar as long as Spectra is on.
Even very powerful S-300 radars are completely unable to detect Rafale.

-Meteor uses far superior Ramjet propulsion whereas PL-15 is still stuck with inferior pulse prop.
Ramjet makes Meteor NEZ twice that of PL-15.

-MBDA rejected AESA seeker as it was found that it will give benefit only against stealth targets and no additional benefits against non stealth or low RCS target.
Not a problem for IAF since JF-17 Blk 3 is not at all stealthy.
Plus Meteor seeker has most advanced ECCM features known to mankind.

One bonus for PAF is because of common Link 17 datalink a AWAC could provide additional guidance for the missile. So network centricness would be the force multiplier.

ALL IAF jets are now being given BNET datalink which will enable AWACS guided BVR shots

170km(5m2) quoted range because of its massive RCS even in clean profile and not factoring it's radar emissions. EW wont help much here. Even regular JF-17s and F-16s have shown this

Multiple exercises with Singapore air force F-16Cs have shown that with Sap-518M engaged, F-16's APG-68 V(9) is able to detect Su-30 only when it is 57 km away.

 

[Shabi1]

JF-17 Blk 3 will never be able to detect Rafale on radar as long as Spectra is on.
Even very powerful S-300 radars are completely unable to detect Rafale.

-Meteor uses far superior Ramjet propulsion whereas PL-15 is still stuck with inferior pulse prop.
Meteor NEZ is twice that of PL-15.

-MBDA rejected AESA seeker as it was found that it will give benefit only against stealth targets and no additional benefits against non stealth or low RCS target.
Plus Meteor seeker has most advanced ECCM features known to mankind.

Rafale is a remarkable jet but not a decisive edge.

Spectre is being over hyped as a magic solution, if it was the case others would have taken same approach. Rafales would have been sought after instead of JSFs.

PL-15 is Ramjet too as that is what pushes it to MACH 5.

As for datalink MBDA is clear that Meteor will not be allowed to link with any non EU radar system.

We had similar logics thrown before for SU-30MKIs, outcomes we all know. .

 

[Rafale+Meteor+Spectra]

Spectre is being over hyped as a magic solution, if it was the case others would have taken same approach. Rafales would have been sought after instead of JSFs

Spectra's abilities are quite magical and revolutionary.
Only advantage F-35 has against Rafale is stealth and data fusion.

We had similar logics thrown before for SU-30MKIs, outcomes we all know.

Su-30 MKI proved their worth when they successfuly managed to return safely without a scratch despite being outnumbered 6:1.

 

[Shabi1]

Rafale is a remarkable jet but not a decisive edge.

Spectre is being over hyped as a magic solution, if it was the case others would have taken same approach. Rafales would have been sought after instead of JSFs.

We had similar logics thrown before for SU-30MKIs, outcomes we all know. .

PL-15 is Ramjet too and at MACH 5. (Correction pulse rocket and Mach 4+)

Spectra's abilities are quite magical and revolutionary.
Only advantage F-35 has against Rafale is stealth and data fusion.


Su-30 MKI proved their worth when they successfuly managed to return safely without a scratch despite being outnumbered 6:1.

But unable to fight back. Excuses.

 

[Rafale+Meteor+Spectra]

PL-15 is Ramjet too and at MACH 5.

PL-15 has dual pulse motor just like AIM-120D.
PL-XX has ramjet but its still very far from being developed.

 

[LKJ86]

PL-15 has dual pulse motor just like AIM-120D.

AIM-120D doesn't have dual pulse motor.

 

[Shabi1]

PL-15 has dual pulse motor just like AIM-120D.
PL-XX has ramjet but its still very far from being developed.

Acknowledged yes you are right PL-15 is not Ramjet and it is Mach 4, I will edit my comment. But both missiles achieving same speeds.

Ramjet gives more range than a conventional rocket propulsion but downside is doesnt work unless near mach 2-3. Meteor is not pure ramjet, its a ducted rocket which is a type where rocket engine oxygen is augmented through a intake.

PL-15 uses a pulsed rocket motor to do what the ducted rocket motor in the Meteor is achieving. Both achieving the same thing with different technologies, the way PL-15 is doing it means it has to be larger but then again Meteor is trading something too, the intake adds drag and reduces kinetic energy at final stages.

Again, technologically the differences even out and upto tactics and pilot ability.

 

[The Accountant]

depends on SNR (signal to noise ratio) of the receiver modules and the post processing of signals by the onboard computers.

But this is more applicable for number of targets and SNR is something subjective as noise will never be same ... noise will be very high in high jamming environment ... so it means range is also subjective ?

 

[Skull and Bones]

But this is more applicable for number of targets and SNR is something subjective as noise will never be same ... noise will be very high in high jamming environment ... so it means range is also subjective ?

Exactly, depends on weather conditions too.

 

[Skull and Bones]

But this is more applicable for number of targets and SNR is something subjective as noise will never be same ... noise will be very high in high jamming environment ... so it means range is also subjective ?

And noise level also depends on the semiconductor properties of the receiver modules too, the purity of the material and/or the doping concentrations to modulate the band gap, all comes into play here.