Kill Switch Killed in Kamra

[HAIDER]

View attachment 654705

Posting this thread based on the above image which was specially shared by the operator.
For many years, we were led to believe that PAF can not use it's F-16s without American approval, well 27th Feb. 2019 saw that myth shattered, however, the naysayers weren't finished yet and kept insisting that the PAF's new Block-52 are constantly monitored by US Personal who will not allow these jets to be deployed operationally other than from their dedicated home base. Also even the PAF Airchief's ride for 23rd March is thoroughly monitored before being allowed to operate from elsewhere. Well, i guess people in PAF do also come across these ludicrous claims. The above image should put an end to these misconceptions. As can be seen it's a fully armed PAF F-16 Block-52 operating out of Kamra.

During Musharraf era ,there was delay in F16 delivery and Pakistan refused to take. Kill switch or master code was the issue. Pakistan took the delivery of block52 when US agreed to disarm the code.

I wish we can add other systems to our VIPERS, same as what Turkey is doing!

These are NATO standard, Pakistan won't get this.

 

[Genghis khan1]

many years back there was an interview of a PAF F-16 pilot in which he mentioned about some sort of digital locks on certain avionics systems and pakistanis cant do anything about them. he also mentioned about monitoring and tracking devices that may be hidden somewhere in other systems which our engineers cant look into. PAF inducted the block 52 jets in 2010 and now in 10 years china has made lots of progress and they have become the second air force to induct fifth gen jets. it seems americans have lowered their guards regarding these F-16s and have relaxed restrictions as these F-16s dont have anything which chinese cant match. chinese have developed better radars then the APG 68 V9 and the PL15 beats the AIM 120 C or any other US or european AIM .

That’s how it usually is, Countries relax control on technology when it not game changing vital and started to become Available around the world. US even sold F-16s to Iraq. I don’t think there is a single US serviceman that would trust an Iraqi after destroying their country. Plus Iraqi govt is a infested with Iranian agents and loyalists. F-35 is the future, F-16 is the past.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

That’s how it usually is, Countries relax control on technology when it not game changing vital and started to become Available around the world. US even sold F-16s to Iraq. I don’t think there is a single US serviceman that would trust an Iraqi after destroying their country. Plus Iraqi govt is a infested with Iranian agents and loyalists. F-35 is the future, F-16 is the past.

Now, just imagine how much "precaution" would be taken for F-35s.....

You can't even fire at a "pigeon" without the "bureaucratic red-tape" permission form the US side....

 

[Thorough Pro]

There are no kill-switches to render the plane or any equipment unusable, there are however monitoring devices on certain critical technology equipment that would sound an alarm if it is opened or disassembled (in violation of the agreements) to safeguard against piracy / reverse engineering. This was discovered by Turks many years ago when one of their F-16 crashed and they recovered its equipment and tried to open such a piece of equipment to either fix or inspect it and the Americans found out about the attempt and brought it up with Turkey and Turkey found out about the presence of such monitoring equipment that somehow became famous as the "Kill-switch".

 

[HAIDER]

There are no kill-switches to render the plane or any equipment unusable, there are however monitoring devices on certain critical technology equipment that would sound an alarm if it is opened or disassembled (in violation of the agreements) to safeguard against piracy / reverse engineering. This was discovered by Turks many years ago when one of their F-16 crashed and they recovered its equipment and tried to open such a piece of equipment to either fix or inspect it and the Americans found out about the attempt and brought it up with Turkey and Turkey found out about the presence of such monitoring equipment that somehow became famous as the "Kill-switch".

Basically friend and foe code.

 

[ARMalik]

Just my 2-cents;

Assuming there is a kill switch, then such a switch would most likely activate/ function only after receiving a specific 'signal', example, via Link-16. The signal will activate certain software functions which will then activate corresponding hardware. However, the F-16 manual would come with all listed I/Os (input/output signals and codes) including those controlling engine functions. There are technical ways to ensure I/Os for switching engines off are not activated during flights. Example, better control of Link-16, use of 'signal filters', etc.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Just my 2-cents;

Assuming there is a kill switch, then such a switch would most likely activate/ function only after receiving a specific 'signal', example, via Link-16. The signal will activate certain software functions which will then activate corresponding hardware. However, the F-16 manual would come with all listed I/Os (input/output signals and codes) including those controlling engine functions. There are technical ways to ensure I/Os for switching engines off are not activated during flights. Example, better control of Link-16, use of 'signal filters', etc.

But, OEM may not show all documentations to the users. There might be some command structures to do the “dirty” stuffs!! And, such commands can be sent via various means....

Having in control of the hardware and software from the designers perspective isn't the same as being the “clueless” end user....

Turkey has been fighting the PKK/YPG etc. terrorists, the bastards of the Imperialist Satans, for four decades with F16s, but with little success!! Once, the indigenous TB2 drones started hunting these swines for a couple of years, they are fast becoming history....

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

There is no evidence to suggest that Vipers have any geographic kill switch. It has been thoroughly tested and simulated. Pakistan has full capability to modify mission computers, but it does not do so as its not required. War changed drastically with the successful induction of long range missiles. Our F16s are fully capable to engage Indian AF A/C, as already demonstrated. Regarding Rafale, specific developments are now in place to castrate the few Rafale that India will field against PK in a future attempt of "surgical" strike, to win local opinions.

However, It is India who should worry about specific kill switches that Dassault will put in Rafale, to black mail them in buying their parts and support for exorbitant prices. Rafale will prove to be the worst possible overall choice IAF has ever made, much worse than M2K. Rafale will also kill the already kaput Tejas program, devastating IAF Sqn numbers further. Welcome Rafale, the savior for Pakistan.

 

[Thorough Pro]

As I have observed many times in the past, Indians think they are very clever, but they have always ended up being on the losing side be it international alliances or other strategic decisions.

I have a strong feeling that a couple of rafales on their way will have issues with their GPS and enter Pakistani airspace and being enemy fighters we will welcome them with open arms .............. if they themselves do not decide to take dive in the Arabian sea

There is no evidence to suggest that Vipers have any geographic kill switch. It has been thoroughly tested and simulated. Pakistan has full capability to modify mission computers, but it does not do so as its not required. War changed drastically with the successful induction of long range missiles. Our F16s are fully capable to engage Indian AF A/C, as already demonstrated. Regarding Rafale, specific developments are now in place to castrate the few Rafale that India will field against PK in a future attempt of "surgical" strike, to win local opinions.

However, It is India who should worry about specific kill switches that Dassault will put in Rafale, to black mail them in buying their parts and support for exorbitant prices. Rafale will prove to be the worst possible overall choice IAF has ever made, much worse than M2K. Rafale will also kill the already kaput Tejas program, devastating IAF Sqn numbers further. Welcome Rafale, the savior for Pakistan.

 

[kursed]

During Musharraf era ,there was delay in F16 delivery and Pakistan refused to take. Kill switch or master code was the issue. Pakistan took the delivery of block52 when US agreed to disarm the code.


These are NATO standard, Pakistan won't get this.

The issue was around encrypted keys needed for certain subsystems of the aircraft, which Pakistan's then political leadership believed was a 'kill switch'. They were made to understand by US authorities that all air forces around the world operating F-16s, get those keys from the US in order to ensure those subsystems operate as intended and that this was nothing specific to Pakistan's case. This was widely reported in Wikileaks and covered in detail. I am not sure why this topic still exists.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

As I have observed many times in the past, Indians think they are very clever, but they have always ended up being on the losing side be it international alliances or other strategic decisions.

I have a strong feeling that a couple of rafales on their way will have issues with their GPS and enter Pakistani airspace and being enemy fighters we will welcome them with open arms .............. if they themselves do not decide to take dive in the Arabian sea

I love your assessments
I pray they come true

 

[PeacefulWar]

If "kill switch" means self destruction switch then probably not.
But sending data back or even make the system less effective is a reality and caught red handed.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/...s/news-story/12b4fafce6b579448cc8416518063d1f

‘Spy’ F-35s send sensitive Norwegian military data back to Lockheed Martin in the United States

THE marketing campaign makes it clear: The F-35 justifies its enormous cost and limited weapons load by being sneaky and enormously well informed.

But its international customers probably didn’t expect this.

Norwegian defence officials have caught one of their new $A120 million (less research and development costs) F-35A Lightning II Block 3F stealth jets sending sensitive data back to its US manufacturer — Lockheed Martin.

Norway is the first non-US user of the F-35 to have a mission-critical software package enabled through the provision of Mission Data Files.

It’s a critical database and software package that is supposed to finally deliver what the advertising videos have been promising for more than a decade: ‘revolutionary situational awareness’.

But it appears that ‘situational awareness’ cuts both ways.

Turns out the US military megacorp is getting detailed telemetry on everything Norwegian pilots are doing delivered to its Fort Worth, Texas, facility.


DOUBLE AGENT

Norway has ordered 40 of the jets, with an option for a further 12.

It took delivery of its first three aircraft in November.

It’s already discovered a problem understood by most smartphone users:

“The development from F-16 to F-35 is like comparing an old Nokia 3210 with an iPhone X. As the amount of features increases, data is also increasing and the need to protect it,” Norwegian Defense Ministry consultant Lars Gjemble told ABC Nyheter.

“In a way, it looks like the challenge of what information your iPhone shares with the manufacturers.”

RELATED: Will Australia’s F-35s ever be able to fight?

Put simply, the manufacturer is tracking and assessing the habits of Norwegian pilots.

While privacy is a concern when it comes to personal internet and smartphone use, it’s becomes a whole different matter when applied to the military.

“Due to national considerations, there is a need for a filter where the user nations can exclude sensitive data from the data stream that is shared by the system with the manufacturer Lockheed Martin,” Gjemble told ABC Nyheter.
.....

 

[IceCold]

Bro,

What is the point of developing aircraft EA-18G Growler if a cyber-weapon can deliver results for any contingency?

Are Growlers meant for US made equipment? The point you are trying to make is that there was no need for US to develop EA-18 Growler if an equipment can be made useless through a kill switch. Am i correct in my assumption?
However my take is that Growler were never meant to be used against US made equipment but rather but rather Soviet and now Russian and Chinese equipment.
Secondly we are hedging our bets against morality of a country that is known for its double crossings. Yes no manufacture would feel great about its equipment falling down the sky in an event of war however lets discuss a possible outcome where in a hypothetical scenario PAF gets indeed get redundant by the so called kill switch, you seriously believe it will affect the reputation of Lockhead Martin?

 

[HAIDER]

The issue was around encrypted keys needed for certain subsystems of the aircraft, which Pakistan's then political leadership believed was a 'kill switch'. They were made to understand by US authorities that all air forces around the world operating F-16s, get those keys from the US in order to ensure those subsystems operate as intended and that this was nothing specific to Pakistan's case. This was widely reported in Wikileaks and covered in detail. I am not sure why this topic still exists.

Good to see senior member around.

 

[F86 Saber]

thats the charm, the opportunities one gets being part of the Armed Forces.....i've been in aircraft, frigates, destroyers, subs (really), merchant navy ships.....this all apart from the army platforms....

You are indeed lucky Major Saheb..... I might even be able to venture a guess as to which arm you are serving in right now but lets just leave it at this