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KFX/IFX News and Development

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ADEX 2021, KOREA

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A (good) brief summary of the dramas surrounding the making of the KFX jet and Indonesian partnership in the program...

------------------------------------------------------------
VALIUS VENCKUNAS

Supersonic drama: the story of South Korea’s new fighter jet

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Fifth-generation fighter jets are the embodiment of the latest technological advancements in military technology. They are associated with concepts such as stealth, extreme flight performance, and advanced computer systems.
Another word sometimes associated with fifth-generation fighter jets is drama. Consider the US-made F-22 and F-35 which were accused of being too expensive. Meanwhile, the Russian Su-57 was often in the news, whether it was the countless delays and trouble with its engine to uncertainties about overseas orders. Even China’s FC-31 – despite its highly secretive development – has been known to encounter difficulties, spending years in limbo and re-emerging almost a decade after its first flight.
Recently, South Korea has been making headlines with its own fighter development program – the KF-X. The aircraft developed during the program has been christened the KF-21, and is currently awaiting its maiden flight. It is debatable whether the aircraft really is fifth-generation as it lacks some crucial new generation features, such as internal weapon bays and supercruise ability. However, there are some next-gen staples the KF-21 has in spades: stealthy design, advanced avionics, and a propensity to be much talked about.
The Indonesian entry
Some of the stories were fairly commonplace: issues with funding, delays, and claims that the jet was too expensive. But the program marched on and, as of late 2021, the aircraft is nearing its first flight.
However, another well-publicized problem has dogged the program.
Korean Aerospace Industries (KAI) was seeking foreign partners before the requirements for the KF-X were finalized. Countries with a history of buying South Korean aircraft were the main candidates and, of those, Turkey and Indonesia both expressed interest.
Turkey’s involvement did not materialize, so Indonesia was left as the sole partner for KAI. In 2010, an agreement was signed, under which Indonesia agreed to contribute up to 20% of development costs and receive 50 aircraft in return. As neither the costs of the development nor production deadlines were clear, the terms were subject to further discussion.
Between 2011 and 2014 the discussion could not take place because the program was stalling. KAI struggled to procure funding. Newly-elected South Korean president Park Geun-hye was against the project, and the program was postponed for 18 months during her tenure.
It slowly restarted in 2015, and after the actual design of the aircraft was selected, the development team outlined the budget. It envisaged Indonesia contributing one-fifth of the jet’s 7.5 trillion won ($6.3 billion) development cost. PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) – Indonesia’s state-run aerospace manufacturer – would also closely collaborate with KAI, lending a part of its workforce to the project.
Falling out
For a while everything seemed to run smoothly. But then, cracks started to appear.
In November 2017, the Korean Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) announced that it had not received the promised monetary contribution from Indonesia – some 138.9 billion won ($124.5 million) was due for the development that year. Only a quarter of the sum was transferred.
In the wake of the announcement, South Korean MP and member of the National Assembly Defense Committee, Kim Jong-dae, said that with the Indonesian contribution gone, the entire project had a real chance of being cancelled.
One of the reasons for that was obvious. Procuring the budget for the aircraft took five years and the program was constantly criticized as being too expensive. Increasing the South Korean contribution by 20% would have looked unattractive. But an even bigger problem was brewing backstage.
In 2016, a sprawling, multi-layered corruption scandal centered around the president Park Geun-hye was reported in South Korea. It involved espionage, conspiracies, and secret religious cults. Park was forced from office in mid-2017 and, and as she was a stark opponent of the KF-X project, it could have been a good omen for the new airplane.
It was not. Unrelated to the president's impeachment, a host of other corruption scandals reverberated throughout the country, and Korean Aerospace Industries found itself in the middle of one. Autumn of 2017 saw the top management of KAI faced with a wave of prosecutions, arrests and even suicides. This did nothing to bolster Indonesia’s commitment to the aviation project. Was this the end?
As it turned out, Indonesia had been having its own doubts about the jet.
In September 2015, Indonesian Minister of Defense, Ryamizard Ryacudu, said that the development of the aircraft was unnecessary and the country should postpone paying for it. Nevertheless, in October of that year, PT Dirgantara Indonesia and KAI signed a deal regarding the payments. But it was clear that the Indonesian government was very much on the fence.
The entire program – to which Indonesia contributed only a minor part – was hanging in the balance.
Endless renegotiations
By early 2018, the problem had still not been resolved, and reports emerged that Indonesia was seriously reconsidering its involvement. It recalled 80 PTDI workers who had been stationed in South Korea, and hinted at a need to “renegotiate” its involvement.
“Frankly, the Indonesian delegation was restricted from accessing many part of KF-X technologies and studies, particularly from the ones regarding the US,” one of those workers told Defence News in May 2018. This shed some light on yet another problem.
In 2016, South Korea, Indonesia and the United States had a series of trilateral meetings in regards to the transfer of some advanced technologies, reportedly related to the F-35 program. The negotiations did not go as well as expected as the US expressed doubts with Indonesia’s trustworthiness. Indonesia was not exactly committed to NATO and its allies and, as the KF-X program was running, it negotiated the purchase of some new Russian jets for its Air Force.
The problems seemed to pile on. A renegotiation was under way in which Indonesia tried to obtain better conditions, and South Korea tried to maintain the status quo. At the same time, South Korean officials continuously said that the development was on track.
Then, in October 2019, a mock-up of the KF-X was publicly displayed for the first time at the Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition. As the final look and characteristics of the jet were revealed, Indonesia was absent from the presentation. It had been more than two years since the renegotiation was “about to end”.
Throughout this whole period, Indonesia was still paying for the program, but not according to the schedule that had been agreed upon. In 2017 it paid one-fourth of the year's sum, and in 2019 it paid 272.2 billion won ($230 million) of 301 billion won ($255 million) – still not the required sum.
Pandemic-ridden 2020 was the third year of renegotiations, and it was full of unconfirmed reports that Indonesia was about to leave the program as well as KAI’s claims that everything was fine. While PTDI engineers returned to work at KAI, the COVID-19 situation stretched Indonesia’s budget thin.
Light at the end of the tunnel
In mid-2021, KAI made the biggest public presentation of the jet yet. The first prototype was rolled out, the name of the aircraft was revealed and, most importantly, all of that was done in compliance with the development timeline announced back in 2017.
In contrast with the mock-up reveal at Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition in 2019, Indonesia was not forgotten. Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto was present at the roll-out. He praised the jet, the Indonesian-South Korean cooperation, and the work of KAI.
Subianto’s statements about the new aircraft – which received the name KF-21 Borame in South Korea and the F-33 in Indonesia – were taken as confirmation that the two countries had found common ground. All seemed well.
However, there was no announcement about the end of renegotiations, its results, or the new conditions for Indonesia’s involvement. Even as the prototype was slowly being prepared for its maiden flight in 2022, Indonesia was continuing to pay for the development on its own terms.
In October 2021, Kang Eun-ho, head of South Korea’s arms procurement agency DAPA, hinted that the roll-out was not the end of the KF-X story.
“I am convinced that [talks over] the issue of the overdue payments will be concluded by November. We will finish it by then,” Eun-Ho said.
Only time will tell.


 
.
A (good) brief summary of the dramas surrounding the making of the KFX jet and Indonesian partnership in the program...

------------------------------------------------------------
VALIUS VENCKUNAS

Supersonic drama: the story of South Korea’s new fighter jet

Share this news submit to reddit
Email.svg



Fifth-generation fighter jets are the embodiment of the latest technological advancements in military technology. They are associated with concepts such as stealth, extreme flight performance, and advanced computer systems.
Another word sometimes associated with fifth-generation fighter jets is drama. Consider the US-made F-22 and F-35 which were accused of being too expensive. Meanwhile, the Russian Su-57 was often in the news, whether it was the countless delays and trouble with its engine to uncertainties about overseas orders. Even China’s FC-31 – despite its highly secretive development – has been known to encounter difficulties, spending years in limbo and re-emerging almost a decade after its first flight.
Recently, South Korea has been making headlines with its own fighter development program – the KF-X. The aircraft developed during the program has been christened the KF-21, and is currently awaiting its maiden flight. It is debatable whether the aircraft really is fifth-generation as it lacks some crucial new generation features, such as internal weapon bays and supercruise ability. However, there are some next-gen staples the KF-21 has in spades: stealthy design, advanced avionics, and a propensity to be much talked about.
The Indonesian entry
Some of the stories were fairly commonplace: issues with funding, delays, and claims that the jet was too expensive. But the program marched on and, as of late 2021, the aircraft is nearing its first flight.
However, another well-publicized problem has dogged the program.
Korean Aerospace Industries (KAI) was seeking foreign partners before the requirements for the KF-X were finalized. Countries with a history of buying South Korean aircraft were the main candidates and, of those, Turkey and Indonesia both expressed interest.
Turkey’s involvement did not materialize, so Indonesia was left as the sole partner for KAI. In 2010, an agreement was signed, under which Indonesia agreed to contribute up to 20% of development costs and receive 50 aircraft in return. As neither the costs of the development nor production deadlines were clear, the terms were subject to further discussion.
Between 2011 and 2014 the discussion could not take place because the program was stalling. KAI struggled to procure funding. Newly-elected South Korean president Park Geun-hye was against the project, and the program was postponed for 18 months during her tenure.
It slowly restarted in 2015, and after the actual design of the aircraft was selected, the development team outlined the budget. It envisaged Indonesia contributing one-fifth of the jet’s 7.5 trillion won ($6.3 billion) development cost. PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) – Indonesia’s state-run aerospace manufacturer – would also closely collaborate with KAI, lending a part of its workforce to the project.
Falling out
For a while everything seemed to run smoothly. But then, cracks started to appear.
In November 2017, the Korean Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) announced that it had not received the promised monetary contribution from Indonesia – some 138.9 billion won ($124.5 million) was due for the development that year. Only a quarter of the sum was transferred.
In the wake of the announcement, South Korean MP and member of the National Assembly Defense Committee, Kim Jong-dae, said that with the Indonesian contribution gone, the entire project had a real chance of being cancelled.
One of the reasons for that was obvious. Procuring the budget for the aircraft took five years and the program was constantly criticized as being too expensive. Increasing the South Korean contribution by 20% would have looked unattractive. But an even bigger problem was brewing backstage.
In 2016, a sprawling, multi-layered corruption scandal centered around the president Park Geun-hye was reported in South Korea. It involved espionage, conspiracies, and secret religious cults. Park was forced from office in mid-2017 and, and as she was a stark opponent of the KF-X project, it could have been a good omen for the new airplane.
It was not. Unrelated to the president's impeachment, a host of other corruption scandals reverberated throughout the country, and Korean Aerospace Industries found itself in the middle of one. Autumn of 2017 saw the top management of KAI faced with a wave of prosecutions, arrests and even suicides. This did nothing to bolster Indonesia’s commitment to the aviation project. Was this the end?
As it turned out, Indonesia had been having its own doubts about the jet.
In September 2015, Indonesian Minister of Defense, Ryamizard Ryacudu, said that the development of the aircraft was unnecessary and the country should postpone paying for it. Nevertheless, in October of that year, PT Dirgantara Indonesia and KAI signed a deal regarding the payments. But it was clear that the Indonesian government was very much on the fence.
The entire program – to which Indonesia contributed only a minor part – was hanging in the balance.
Endless renegotiations
By early 2018, the problem had still not been resolved, and reports emerged that Indonesia was seriously reconsidering its involvement. It recalled 80 PTDI workers who had been stationed in South Korea, and hinted at a need to “renegotiate” its involvement.
“Frankly, the Indonesian delegation was restricted from accessing many part of KF-X technologies and studies, particularly from the ones regarding the US,” one of those workers told Defence News in May 2018. This shed some light on yet another problem.
In 2016, South Korea, Indonesia and the United States had a series of trilateral meetings in regards to the transfer of some advanced technologies, reportedly related to the F-35 program. The negotiations did not go as well as expected as the US expressed doubts with Indonesia’s trustworthiness. Indonesia was not exactly committed to NATO and its allies and, as the KF-X program was running, it negotiated the purchase of some new Russian jets for its Air Force.
The problems seemed to pile on. A renegotiation was under way in which Indonesia tried to obtain better conditions, and South Korea tried to maintain the status quo. At the same time, South Korean officials continuously said that the development was on track.
Then, in October 2019, a mock-up of the KF-X was publicly displayed for the first time at the Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition. As the final look and characteristics of the jet were revealed, Indonesia was absent from the presentation. It had been more than two years since the renegotiation was “about to end”.
Throughout this whole period, Indonesia was still paying for the program, but not according to the schedule that had been agreed upon. In 2017 it paid one-fourth of the year's sum, and in 2019 it paid 272.2 billion won ($230 million) of 301 billion won ($255 million) – still not the required sum.
Pandemic-ridden 2020 was the third year of renegotiations, and it was full of unconfirmed reports that Indonesia was about to leave the program as well as KAI’s claims that everything was fine. While PTDI engineers returned to work at KAI, the COVID-19 situation stretched Indonesia’s budget thin.
Light at the end of the tunnel
In mid-2021, KAI made the biggest public presentation of the jet yet. The first prototype was rolled out, the name of the aircraft was revealed and, most importantly, all of that was done in compliance with the development timeline announced back in 2017.
In contrast with the mock-up reveal at Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition in 2019, Indonesia was not forgotten. Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto was present at the roll-out. He praised the jet, the Indonesian-South Korean cooperation, and the work of KAI.
Subianto’s statements about the new aircraft – which received the name KF-21 Borame in South Korea and the F-33 in Indonesia – were taken as confirmation that the two countries had found common ground. All seemed well.
However, there was no announcement about the end of renegotiations, its results, or the new conditions for Indonesia’s involvement. Even as the prototype was slowly being prepared for its maiden flight in 2022, Indonesia was continuing to pay for the development on its own terms.
In October 2021, Kang Eun-ho, head of South Korea’s arms procurement agency DAPA, hinted that the roll-out was not the end of the KF-X story.
“I am convinced that [talks over] the issue of the overdue payments will be concluded by November. We will finish it by then,” Eun-Ho said.
Only time will tell.



As usual Western journalist made many false writing and dont understand the program and as usual Western journalist always like to play down Indonesia participation. Even until Today I see all western journalist said Indonesia only do licensing in CN 235 program, only defense journalist from the region (Malaysia) who understand the matter and try to correct them, like Malaysian journalist in Jane Defense, but other Western journalist in Jane Defense never wants to correct the mistake, they just need to read Airbus and Indonesia Aerospace website to see the truth



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Now I want to debunk many of this Western journalist mistake in his writing about KF21/IFX program

1. Indonesia has participated since 2011 and it is basically the start of the program. We also can see the LOI was in March 2009.


Prove:

A.

1635239515649.png


B.
Korea was once considered Indonesia engineer do not understand about the design of a jet fighter. But the notion was quickly turned , when the Indonesian team describes the design and the various inputs. The Indonesian side also the one who finally managed to convince that the aircraft take-off weight of 50,000 pounds must .

Confirmation of the Parliament of South Korea on the resumption of the program KFX / IFX team warmly welcomed designers from Indonesia. They include asking both governments immediately call the engineers involved in preparing work that has been long overdue. They also want the governments of both countries to make sure one of the two designs that have been produced in the Technology Development phase for cultivation in the next phase .

"Program KFX / IFX is a multi - program years , costly, and involve various sectors and foreign partners. For that there must be a definite declaration on it goes. For Indonesia it is important to determine the financing schemes and their human resources planning, "said Dr Rais Zain, M. Eng , KFX / IFX Configuration Design Leader for Angkasa , in late January.

Superior to the Su - 35 Program, KFX / IFX was stopped temporarily by Korea's new leader Park Geun - Hye end of 2012 after reviewing the state financially in the country. This prestigious project was worked on since the beginning of 2011, shortly after President Lee Myung - bak and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono confirmed the bilateral cooperation in the defense field in Jakarta. From the Technology Development Phase that has been completed, a team of scientists has completed a number of conical design that later became two.



2. Indonesia and Turkey was not a large buyer of Korean defense equipment at that time, so saying Korean pick Turkey and Indonesia as partner because of both are Korean defense equipment buyers are not true. Korean give proposal to Indonesia to joint the program around 2009 while at that time we havent bought and decided to buy FA 50 and Chang Bogo Submarine. Both have capable aerospace industry and this is the main reason of why South Korea choose Turkey and Indonesia, they can pick UAE/Qatar/or Saudi if they just want to broaden the market.

Prove:



3. The program runs very well since the start in 2011 and ended in 2012 Desember where 2 design have been developed. This is technology development phase. Indonesia sent 52 engineers at that time. This is to debunk their story saying since 2011 the program was not running and they even dont mention Indonesian engineers who were sent to Korea at that time.

Prove:


A. 2012 picture posted by respected Korean Defense Blog, Naver

1635241608965.png


B. The number of Indonesian experts involved in the second phase, known as the Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) phase, was far more than the first phase (Technical Development Phase), which only amounted to 52 at that time. The first phase (Technical Development Phase) itself lasted 18 months from 2011 to 2012. Meanwhile, the second phase (EMD) will last for 10 years, involving 200-300 Indonesian experts.


4. Saying Indonesia only contribute minor thing is not correct, nothing can be said minor when Indonesia send 116 design engineers until the design is completed for single seat configuration, and continue sending design work for tandem configuration and some fuselage component for prototype 1,2, and 6 while staying in Bandung, Indonesia.

Prove:


A. CDR was in September 2019, long before 116 Indonesian design engineers came back in March 2020

2021 news

"But Indonesia's 114-strong engineering team returned home in March last year after the country's failure to make payments gave rise to speculation that it could quit the program. Indonesia stopped making payments after investing 227.2 billion won, with around 700 billion won overdue."


CDR was in September 2019 ( Completion of detail design)

1635242807515.png


B. October 2019 news

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.


C. The opposition party said the South Korean government is only engaged in passive negotiation due to concern over possible obstacles or possible delay in the development of the fighter jet resulting from non-payment of contributions. In line with principle and common sense, one side should not be forced into unilateral concessions. We have to bring about a win-win situation,” Rep. Kang said.


5. Indonesia is not in doubt on the program at all, Indonesia get economic difficulty in 2018 due to fragile Rupiah as trade deficit reach its historic peak, this is why renegotiation is started.

Prove


A. https://nasional.kompas.com/read/20...-pengembangan-jet-tempur-kfxifx-dengan-korsel

B. Ryamizard Ryakudu in 2015 talked very positive about the program, I will find the Youtube later, but at the mean time it is what is said by Indonesia Aerospace CEO in 2016 and talk about Indonesia position. As the program owner is Defense Ministry and he is basically working under SOE ministry, so what he said is in accordance with Indonesia Government position regarding the program in that 2016


6. Why does he mentioned KAI during 2011 development phase ? KAI hasnt joined the program until 2015 and KAI design proposal was also rejected during the delay of program (2013-2014) and Korea government pick the C 103 design as basis of KF 21/IFX design to be developed further into C 109 design. ADD Korea and Indonesian team who was working on the C 103 design during technology development phase (2011-Desember 2012)

7. Even he said Indonesia recalled 80 engineers from working in South Korea in 2018 which is not true, as we can see on the above facts coming from credible sources I put in, 114 Indonesian design engineers left South Korea starting in May 2020 where detail design has been completed in late 2019. And even they are still working on tandem prototype design and some components for prototype 1,2, and 6 while in Indonesia ( I have put Indonesia Aerospace document on previous page saying like that)

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This shows he has little knowledge about the program and just follow the program while probably using some comments from defense enthusiast in Defense Forum rather than credible sources from credible Korean media like Yonhap, Korean and Indonesian Gov website, and credible Indonesian media like Angkasa (Aerospace specialist) and Kompas whose sources are DAPA Korea, Korean parliament who has link to ADD/DAPA Korea and Indonesian KF 21/IFX senior engineer.
 
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Well regardless of the amount of technical contributions we have made or going to make for this project, at the end of the day, it's our financial contributions that will determine our continued participation in this project... so the below news should make you happy @Indos 😁

South Korea, Indonesia move closer to KF-21 agreement, says DAPA

26 OCTOBER 2021

by Jon Grevatt

DAPA has said South Korea and Indonesia are “narrowing the gap” on an agreement on Jakarta's payments on the programme to develop the KF-21 fighter aircraft, seen here at the launch of the platform's first prototype. (DAPA)

South Korea and Indonesia are edging closer to an agreement about Jakarta's financial commitment to the programme to develop the KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter aircraft, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) in Seoul told Janes.

A DAPA spokesperson said that the two countries remain in talks over Indonesia's payments on the project but that the agency is confident that an agreement can be reached soon. The spokesperson also indicated that once the agreement is in place, Indonesia's position in the KF-21 programme could expand.

“The Republic of Korea and Indonesia are narrowing the gap between each other's position with regards to repayments through a number of negotiations,” said the DAPA spokesperson. “DAPA is very positive that the payment issue will be resolved.”


 
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Well regardless of the amount of technical contributions we have made or going to make for this project, at the end of the day, it's our financial contributions that will determine our continued participation in this project... so the below news should make you happy @Indos 😁

South Korea, Indonesia move closer to KF-21 agreement, says DAPA

26 OCTOBER 2021

by Jon Grevatt

DAPA has said South Korea and Indonesia are “narrowing the gap” on an agreement on Jakarta's payments on the programme to develop the KF-21 fighter aircraft, seen here at the launch of the platform's first prototype. (DAPA)

South Korea and Indonesia are edging closer to an agreement about Jakarta's financial commitment to the programme to develop the KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter aircraft, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) in Seoul told Janes.

A DAPA spokesperson said that the two countries remain in talks over Indonesia's payments on the project but that the agency is confident that an agreement can be reached soon. The spokesperson also indicated that once the agreement is in place, Indonesia's position in the KF-21 programme could expand.

“The Republic of Korea and Indonesia are narrowing the gap between each other's position with regards to repayments through a number of negotiations,” said the DAPA spokesperson. “DAPA is very positive that the payment issue will be resolved.”



Ya, I hope we can complete the renegotiation soon and Indonesia should pay all the debt and start paying our financial commitment inshaAllah.

Air Force Commander whit his recent publication book revealed 3 most important aspects in term of fighter acquisition. These three aspects IMO supports the use of KF21/IFX in Indonesia Air Force. First is 4.5-5 generation fighters (which is more Stealthy than current Air Force assets) that become our Air Force target to acquire, second is the importance of inter operability between Indonesian fighters and also with other defense assets in sea and land. Finally he said the need to have aggressive Air Force posture in term of fighter assets, he said Indonesia should buy 35 fighters within 5 years period and keep doing this until 2045 where in total we will have around 160 new fighters.


Why KF 21 can be the right choice for Indonesian Airforce ?

1. KF 21 is 4.5 generation fighter with the ability to be developed into 5 generation and even the plan to make it having 6 generation technology has been revealed.

2. In term of inter-operability, we can use LEN Link to be used in the plane as we have much freedom to install any equipment and component into this fighter compared to fighters like F 15 and Rafale.

Basically PT LEN Industry only shows KF21/IFX which will use their system, this is also another prove that reveal the difficulty to use the link in other fighter as OEM and countries who sell their fighter often restrict other component/equipment to be used in their fighters.


3. The need to procure 35 fighters within 5 years period is difficult to be realized in Indonesia which will likely focus to economic development until the next 20 years, and it can only be smoothly executed if we still can reap both economic and defense industry benefit while pursuing the target. Less pressure from government point of view where economic will likely become their main focus as has been seen by Indonesia administration history since 1967 ( The beginning of New Order/Soeharto).

With KF 21/IFX will be produced in the country if the program is success and Indonesia will still be in the program, this make Air Force acquisition plan will get less resistance from economic team. Furthermore as current fighter (4.5-5 generation fighter) maintenance absorbs 30 % of total cost of the fighter total cost (acquisition and life cost), so this will be another reason of why KF21/IFX who will be produced by Indonesia Aerospace inshaAllah will reduce maintenance cost while giving more benefit on local industry and faster delivery and maintenance time to our Air Force.

Not to mention the price of KF21/IFX is set at 60-70 million USD per plane which is half of F 16 block 72/F 15 EX and almost 1/3 of Rafale in term of acquisition cost only ( minus maintenance cost ).

While the program also will pave the way for Indonesian Aerospace to develop Stealth Wing Man UCAV that IMO will give huge market within our own domestic demand and possibly export them abroad.


4. Easier to do upgrade and modification of the fighter by our local industries that in the end will increase our deterrence level

------------------------------------------------

Air Force strategic plan. More detail information can be seen on the book that will be published soon as I, personally, have seen the brief presentation of the plan ( where one of them include fighter acquisition plan that I have revealed in this post ).

 
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InshaAllah renegotiation is completed and Indonesia starts paying its financial contribution.

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S. Korea, Indonesia to hold last-stage talks over overdue payments for fighter jet project
All News 08:22 November 05, 2021

By Song Sang-ho

SEOUL, Nov. 5 (Yonhap) -- South Korea and Indonesia will hold what could be the final round of negotiations in the Southeast Asian country next week to address the latter's overdue payments for a joint fighter development project, informed sources said Friday.

Officials from Korea Aerospace Industries Ltd. (KAI), South Korea's sole aircraft maker, will meet with negotiators from Indonesia's defense ministry, the sources said, as Seoul seeks to squelch lingering concerns over Indonesia's commitment to the 8.8 trillion-won (US$7.4 billion) project, called KF-X.

Kang Eun-ho, head of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), is also expected to visit Indonesia from Tuesday to Thursday to join the Korean negotiation team -- in an apparent show of Seoul's resolve to settle the protracted issue.

Indonesia had agreed to shoulder 20 percent of the new fighter's development cost. But it later stopped making payments, with the amount of the overdue payments currently standing at 704.1 billion won (US$593 million).

During a parliamentary audit last month, DAPA chief Kang expressed confidence that the negotiations with Indonesia will be concluded by November.

Concerns about Indonesia's possible pullout from the project first surfaced when the country brought its technicians involved in the fighter development program in South Korea back to their home country in March last year, citing the spread of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Such concerns eased when Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto agreed to resume talks with South Korea over the overdue payments during a visit to Seoul in April, which coincided with a ceremony unveiling a prototype of the country's first indigenous fighter jet named the KF-21 Boramae.

In August, a group of Indonesian technicians returned to Korea, raising expectations that the joint fighter development program will gain traction.

This file photo taken April 9, 2021, shows South Korea's first prototype of the next-generation KF-X fighter, officially named the KF-21 Boramae, at the Korea Aerospace Industries Co. facility in the southeastern city of Sacheon. (Yonhap)


 
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Korea-Indonesia KF-21 joint development renegotiation, ‘startup’ in Jakarta… anticipation of a settlement
clean view
Normal


Enter 2021.11.10 10:55 Edit 2021.11.10 10:55

Indonesia demands a 5% reduction in the development contribution rate… The renegotiation of the conditions for joint development of the next-generation fighter (KF-21/IF-X) between Korea and Indonesia, which is 800 billion won overdue , will be held for two days in Jakarta on the 10th.

As the Indonesian government expressed its will for joint development by sending 30 technical staff to Korea in August, expectations are high that the negotiations will come to an end.


Korea-Indonesia KF-21 joint development renegotiation, ‘startup’ in Jakarta…  anticipation of a settlement


Kang Eun-ho, head of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, told Yonhap News correspondent on the morning of the same day, "We will do our best to negotiate based on mutual trust and a will to cooperate between the two countries."

Director Kang arrived in Jakarta with six negotiators the night before.

Negotiations with Indonesia will take place from the afternoon of this day to the afternoon of the next day, and if necessary, negotiations may take place all night.

The Indonesian side wants to keep profits from transferring more technology than the original contract along with a 5% reduction in the share of the KF-21 joint development contribution.

The KF-21/IF-X project is a project in which Korea and Indonesia jointly share a project cost of 8.8 trillion won from 2015 to 2028 to research and develop a 4.5th generation fighter. After investing 100 billion won and transferring one prototype and technical data, it plans to locally produce 48 next-generation fighters.

Indonesia delayed the payment of the share from the second half of 2017, and when President Joko Widodo visited South Korea in September 2018, he asked President Moon Jae-in to renegotiate, including reducing the share of the Indonesian side by 5%.

Overdue contributions to date are KRW 800 billion.

The two countries have narrowed their differences of opinion through renegotiation in October 2018, with Indonesia keeping the share (20%) but paying some in kind.

However, Indonesia's defense minister was replaced by Prabowo Subianto in October 2019, returning to the starting point, and as the corona crisis erupted last year, about 110 Indonesian technicians returned to Korea, and the joint development was in danger of being stranded.

Korea-Indonesia KF-21 joint development renegotiation, ‘startup’ in Jakarta…  anticipation of a settlement


Commissioner Kang visited Jakarta on September 22-23, last year, when he was deputy director of the DAPA, and visited Jakarta to renegotiate the terms of the KF-21 joint development and also met with Minister Prabowo, but to no avail.

Then, this year, Minister Prabowo showed a change of friendly attitude through several meetings with Commissioner Kang, Ambassador Park Tae-seong, and Defense Adviser Jeong Yeon-su, and after attending the launch ceremony of the first prototype in Korea in April, restarted joint development.

Indonesia sent 30 technicians participating in the joint development to Korea at the end of August, and plans to send more technicians once the renegotiation is concluded this time.


However, even if an agreement is reached, it is expected that the Indonesian government will not be able to repay the arrears immediately because the Indonesian government is pouring most of its budget into response to the corona crisis, and it is expected that the payment will be made in installments at an appropriate time.

 
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Korea-Indonesia KF-21 joint development renegotiation, ‘startup’ in Jakarta… anticipation of a settlement
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Enter 2021.11.10 10:55 Edit 2021.11.10 10:55

Indonesia demands a 5% reduction in the development contribution rate… The renegotiation of the conditions for joint development of the next-generation fighter (KF-21/IF-X) between Korea and Indonesia, which is 800 billion won overdue , will be held for two days in Jakarta on the 10th.

As the Indonesian government expressed its will for joint development by sending 30 technical staff to Korea in August, expectations are high that the negotiations will come to an end.


Korea-Indonesia KF-21 joint development renegotiation, ‘startup’ in Jakarta…  anticipation of a settlement


Kang Eun-ho, head of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, told Yonhap News correspondent on the morning of the same day, "We will do our best to negotiate based on mutual trust and a will to cooperate between the two countries."

Director Kang arrived in Jakarta with six negotiators the night before.

Negotiations with Indonesia will take place from the afternoon of this day to the afternoon of the next day, and if necessary, negotiations may take place all night.

The Indonesian side wants to keep profits from transferring more technology than the original contract along with a 5% reduction in the share of the KF-21 joint development contribution.

The KF-21/IF-X project is a project in which Korea and Indonesia jointly share a project cost of 8.8 trillion won from 2015 to 2028 to research and develop a 4.5th generation fighter. After investing 100 billion won and transferring one prototype and technical data, it plans to locally produce 48 next-generation fighters.

Indonesia delayed the payment of the share from the second half of 2017, and when President Joko Widodo visited South Korea in September 2018, he asked President Moon Jae-in to renegotiate, including reducing the share of the Indonesian side by 5%.

Overdue contributions to date are KRW 800 billion.

The two countries have narrowed their differences of opinion through renegotiation in October 2018, with Indonesia keeping the share (20%) but paying some in kind.

However, Indonesia's defense minister was replaced by Prabowo Subianto in October 2019, returning to the starting point, and as the corona crisis erupted last year, about 110 Indonesian technicians returned to Korea, and the joint development was in danger of being stranded.

Korea-Indonesia KF-21 joint development renegotiation, ‘startup’ in Jakarta…  anticipation of a settlement


Commissioner Kang visited Jakarta on September 22-23, last year, when he was deputy director of the DAPA, and visited Jakarta to renegotiate the terms of the KF-21 joint development and also met with Minister Prabowo, but to no avail.

Then, this year, Minister Prabowo showed a change of friendly attitude through several meetings with Commissioner Kang, Ambassador Park Tae-seong, and Defense Adviser Jeong Yeon-su, and after attending the launch ceremony of the first prototype in Korea in April, restarted joint development.

Indonesia sent 30 technicians participating in the joint development to Korea at the end of August, and plans to send more technicians once the renegotiation is concluded this time.


However, even if an agreement is reached, it is expected that the Indonesian government will not be able to repay the arrears immediately because the Indonesian government is pouring most of its budget into response to the corona crisis, and it is expected that the payment will be made in installments at an appropriate time.


curious, why would Lockheed ge etc sell Korea key components like radar,avionics, engine to compete against itself (f35 f16), rather than kill it and force South Korea to buy
 
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Indonesia finance minister, Sri Mulyani has too much stress on the infrastructure development while not putting enough budged on R&D. Jokowi as older generation leader also shows more tendency to infrastructure development and village funds.

This makes this program gets some problem for the financing part since for current Indonesia leaders, spending around 2 billion USD ( even though the payment will be disbursed gradually in the span of 10 years) for R&D of defense project is too much. Even N 219 program with only 70 million USD development cost gets difficult to get the finding. It makes the program which started in 2004 needs 10 years before Indonesia Aerospace can get enough funding to do detail design and produce several prototypes starting in 2015.

New leaders with ages ranging from 48-55 years old that is expected to get the power in 2024 election I believe has more ambitious mindset and understand the important of R&D for the nation progress. At least, economically they will likely have better economic capacity to fund similar project in the future and has more capacity to order KF21/IFX into more than 100 planes. It is because Indonesia economy is projected by IMF to reach 1.5 trillion USD nominal GDP in 2025, where KF 21/IFX program is expected to be completed in 2026.


curious, why would Lockheed ge etc sell Korea key components like radar,avionics, engine to compete against itself (f35 f16), rather than kill it and force South Korea to buy

USA doesnt allow 4 key components to be put in KF 21/IFX which include avionics and radars. This is then force South Korea to develop by themselves where Israel is also helping in some degree on the development.

USA also doesnt allow AMRAAM and Sidewinder to be used by KF21/IFX, this is why KF21/IFX will use Meteor missile for BVR and IRIS-T for WVR.

Some transfer technology do happen from F 22 and F 35 program into KF21/IFX program, this is a deal made by LM after SK buy many F 35.

USA in some way has intention to have both South Korea and Japan powerful enough to make these countries can deal with China threat. It is part of USA interest to do that
 
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Indonesia finance minister, Sri Mulyani has too much stress on the infrastructure development while not putting enough budged on R&D. Jokowi as older generation leader also shows more tendency to infrastructure development and village funds.

This makes this program gets some problem for the financing part since for current Indonesia leaders, spending around 2 billion USD ( even though the payment will be disbursed gradually in the span of 10 years) for R&D of defense project is too much. Even N 219 program with only 70 million USD development cost gets difficult to get the finding. It makes the program which started in 2004 needs 10 years before Indonesia Aerospace can get enough funding to do detail design and produce several prototypes starting in 2015.

New leaders with ages ranging from 48-55 years old that is expected to get the power in 2024 election I believe has more ambitious mindset and understand the important of R&D for the nation progress. At least, economically they will likely have better economic capacity to fund similar project in the future and has more capacity to order KF21/IFX into more than 100 planes. It is because Indonesia economy is projected by IMF to reach 1.5 trillion USD nominal GDP in 2025, where KF 21/IFX program is expected to be completed in 2026.




USA doesnt allow 4 key components to be put in KF 21/IFX which include avionics and radars. This is then force South Korea to develop by themselves where Israel is also helping in some degree on the development.

USA also doesnt allow AMRAAM and Sidewinder to be used by KF21/IFX, this is why KF21/IFX will use Meteor missile for BVR and IRIS-T for WVR.

Some transfer technology do happen from F 22 and F 35 program into KF21/IFX program, this is a deal made by LM after SK buy many F 35.

USA in some way has intention to have both South Korea and Japan powerful enough to make these countries can deal with China threat. It is part of USA interest to do that

make sense, but Lockheed is greedy and stupid to create a future competitor like the training plane, Korea has no options , if don’t buy f35, what other planes to buy?
 
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make sense

Not only that, it is part of business competition as well between USA and European. After the completion of first development phase (2011-2012 Desember) where 2 designs have been developed ( C-100 and C-200 with canard). The program then will select the technical partner of the program. European consortium is also interested beside Lockheed Martin from USA.

KF 21/IFX since the start is design to get whether European engine (EJ 200) or American engine (F414) which show similarity in diameter and length. The reason there is one design with canard is to prepare for cooperation with European nation that has FBW technology on fighter with canard like Typhoon.

So if LM doesnt show willingness to help the program, European consortium will have more upperhand. Even European consortium is willing to be part of the program and finance 20 % of the project. But somehow LM that is chosen to be partner and GE will provide the engine.
 
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make sense, but Lockheed is greedy and stupid to create a future competitor like the training plane, Korea has no options , if don’t buy f35, what other planes to buy?

LM doesnt have training plane, they are competing with Boeing to provide jet trainer for US Air Force by using T50 Golden Eagle that will be produced in LM if they win the tender, despite Boeing is the one that gets the tender.

SK can wait KF21 if LM is not interested with KF21/IFX program as technical partner ( despite they dont provide any financing) and build cooperation with European nation. Even if EU is part of the program, KF21/IFX will likely become the future fighters of European nations (Britain/German/Italia/etc) with 20 % funding from them which means business wise it will be more profitable. So saying South Korea only has Indonesia as backing during that period is a big false.

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LM doesnt have training plane, they are competing with Boeing to provide jet trainer for US Air Force by using T50 Golden Eagle that will be produced in LM if they win the tender, despite Boeing is the one that gets the tender.

SK can wait KF21 if LM is not interested with KF21/IFX program as technical partner ( despite they dont provide any financing) and build cooperation with European nation. Even if EU is part of the program, KF21/IFX will likely become the future fighters of European nations (Britain/German/Italia/etc) which means business wise it will be more viable

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come on man, first of all europeans don’t have fifth generation plane to offer korea

Second of all, uk/Germany/France use kf21 as future plane? Instead buy f35? You seriously believe that? Please don’t fall to indians level

u are right on the trainer though
 
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