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Kemal Atatürk documentary

i think we need a leader like ataturk. look what he did for his country they at this point in time are the 17th largest economy in this world. they have a strong military and strong judicial system and very strong democracy. i beleive in the eventual sheme of things he did great things for his country. looking at pakistan apart from the strong military what really do we have.
 
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i think we need a leader like ataturk. look what he did for his country they at this point in time are the 17th largest economy in this world. they have a strong military and strong judicial system and very strong democracy. i beleive in the eventual sheme of things he did great things for his country. looking at pakistan apart from the strong military what really do we have.

You can either Go for your "Religious Values" or for the complete "Westernisation" of your region. You can't have both. When you do, your government starts banning your religious rights and freedom within your own state. (Kind of like how turkey banned the Headscarf out of sheer stupidity)

Not everyone's cut out for these things.
 
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You can either Go for your "Religious Values" or for the complete "Westernisation" of your region. You can't have both. When you do, your government starts banning your religious rights and freedom within your own state. (Kind of like how turkey banned the Headscarf out of sheer stupidity)

Not everyone's cut out for these things.

i am not saying that we should be like france or turkey i am saying that everyone should have the right to practice there religion but that religion should stay out of policy making. when it comes religion there are very clear black and white while in policy there are tons and tons of gray. also if pakistan would have been a secular state that the quide wanted then we wouldnt have all these crazies running about in the tribal areas and swat. because one of their basic argument is that when shariat is enshrined in the constitution then why is it not being applied in regular life. i know that they are freaks and that there is a very long explanation for what kind of laws are in place and all are according to the quran but still this point does resonate with the people.
 
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i am not saying that we should be like france or turkey i am saying that everyone should have the right to practice there religion but that religion should stay out of policy making. when it comes religion there are very clear black and white while in policy there are tons and tons of gray. also if pakistan would have been a secular state that the quide wanted then we wouldnt have all these crazies running about in the tribal areas and swat. because one of their basic argument is that when shariat is enshrined in the constitution then why is it not being applied in regular life. i know that they are freaks and that there is a very long explanation for what kind of laws are in place and all are according to the quran but still this point does resonate with the people.

You must be familiar with the fact that Pakistan was formed on the basis and name of "Islam". We're the only country in the world that currently holds that honour. If "We" start ignoring religion and leave no room for them in our governance and policies, then what exactly was the purpose of this country and the sacrifices our elders made for our existence?
 
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You must be familiar with the fact that Pakistan was formed on the basis and name of "Islam". We're the only country in the world that currently holds that honour. If "We" start ignoring religion and leave no room for them in our governance and policies, then what exactly was the purpose of this country and the sacrifices our elders made for our existence?

Pakistan was not made in the name of islam pakistan was created in the name of indian muslims. just because we become secular does not mean that we will start ignoring our religion. religion is a personal choice and it should be left to the individual. it should not be job of the state to regulate religion. the reason why we are in such a mess today is because a general tried to regulate religion from the seat of power. plus islam is to great a religion to need a country. also islam in its very nature is a very decentralized religion. it is upto to every muslim how reads the quran and interprets it that is beauty of this religion no one can say that the other is wrong and i am right. i think we have forgotten that.
 
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Pakistan was not made in the name of islam pakistan was created in the name of indian muslims. just because we become secular does not mean that we will start ignoring our religion. religion is a personal choice and it should be left to the individual. it should not be job of the state to regulate religion. the reason why we are in such a mess today is because a general tried to regulate religion from the seat of power. plus islam is to great a religion to need a country. also islam in its very nature is a very decentralized religion. it is upto to every muslim how reads the quran and interprets it that is beauty of this religion no one can say that the other is wrong and i am right. i think we have forgotten that.

I think you are mistaking Islam with any other religion and hence the evil doctrine of secular democracy (stupidity), where any tom dick or harry can vote, whether they have an informed opinion or not, whether they understand the values or don't, whether they know what is right or not, but they have the power to elect people.

And in my province, we just saw ANP coming in (that further screwed entire province) and in our country we saw people voting for PPP because the chairperson was assasinated.

How genuine doctrine, indeed.

Now don't confuse Mullahs alliance with Islam. Mullahs do not represent Islam, they are dubbed as Islamic beacons (through a proper conspiracy) so Islam's reputation can be further damaged.

And what part of "getting a country for Indian Muslims" is any different than getting a country for Islam?

Muslim is nothing than a follower of a Islam, and when the followers were not able to practise 'Islam', hence there was a need to get a country for ISLAM, that the followers could follow without any problems.

I am sure, in united India, Hindus would be taking a piss at Muslims and Muslims would not be letting the mow cow alone. Hence the country for Islam, that could not be followed in a country that is so called "secular".

Now Islam is not just a religion, it's a complete doctrine of life, from governance to conduct to jurisprudence to ethics to policies and you name it.

And as a Muslim, everyone is suppose to follow the set guidelines in Islam. There is no additional "policy making" required that is already in Qur'an. And we must understand we are not sent here to live our lives, but for the exam we are giving in order to prove it to our Lord that we have not faulter His deen.

Moreover, a thorough look at Ottoman Caliphate will tell you how Islam excellently can govern. If they could do it for 1000 year, why can't we?

Didn't the world progress in the time of Islamic governances? didn't muslims flourish while under Islamic rule as comparing to secular that we have right now?

I personally think we are screwed under this so called alien concepts, and could not do a single thing (since they conspired and we played in their hands) in comparison to when we had Islamic rule under which we showed the world how the science and arts work.

Thank you!
 
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Pakistan was not made in the name of islam pakistan was created in the name of indian muslims. just because we become secular does not mean that we will start ignoring our religion. religion is a personal choice and it should be left to the individual. it should not be job of the state to regulate religion. the reason why we are in such a mess today is because a general tried to regulate religion from the seat of power. plus islam is to great a religion to need a country. also islam in its very nature is a very decentralized religion. it is upto to every muslim how reads the quran and interprets it that is beauty of this religion no one can say that the other is wrong and i am right. i think we have forgotten that.

I completely forgot about replying to your post since the threads usually get buried from time to time. But there's no need now. Pashtun pretty much summed it all up. I'm sure it'll be more than sufficient.
 
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You must be familiar with the fact that Pakistan was formed on the basis and name of "Islam". We're the only country in the world that currently holds that honour. If "We" start ignoring religion and leave no room for them in our governance and policies, then what exactly was the purpose of this country and the sacrifices our elders made for our existence?

Who told you that?
 
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Yeah yeah yeah....

Wise up Sir it was German General Limon Von Sander's that is responsible for the skillful defense at Gallipoli Coast or Canakkale as the Turks refer to it...It was Limon Von Sander's that decided troop positioning on the coast and he led the defense. However, because it suits the agendas of others to distort history, history is written as if Mustafa Kemal Pasha is the man behind this great victory, when he is not entirely. Nobody is saying the man did not perform heroically but he is not the man to be given the most credit.

Also your Turkish friend raises a point "he is father and prophet for us" the fact is the Kemalist Turks have committed Shirk by worshiping this man's "Kemalist/Secular" ideology...Allow me to explain (presuming you know what shirk means already) see one of the attributes of Allah is sovereignty, this results in God's supremacy in jurisprudence, rules, social, economic, and political...However, this has been replaced my man's tradition and rules...

Now of course Turkey isn't the only one...

Otto von Sanders participated in Gallipoli campaign only with Ataturk,in other 7 battles of WW1 in which Ataturk was leading he had 1 stalemate and rest of 6 were victories.

About your second point,you are taking the meaning of what i told u in literal sense like a mullah,what he said is just how highly Turk nation think of its founder,if i say Jinnah is my role model and my god it means not in the sense ur advocating,got nothing to do with religion.
 
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some extremists here are very much obsessed with ataturk a.k.a KEMALIST reforms here. you dont about what ataturk was. its alright, he did many things for his country, but it was "turks" country. we aint need to follow any body. atarturk has created a nation, which doesnt know its identity. i mean turks think they are europeans, they act like they are born in the west. then they start chanting "we are turks and our roots are from central asia actually". this is completely bull's crap. OK alright ataturk did for what his nation desired and we have very warm relations with turkey after khilafat movement and we aided turkey during its independence. but that doesnt mean we actually have to decline to the level where we dont belong and which doesnt belong to us. we should value our own values.

secondly, people who say ataturk modernized turkey, but whats the big deal, we dont see turkey even marginally coming close to the european countries. infact their economy is good because of europe and they want to join EU. their economy depends on europe. ataturk who have extreme concept of modernization has changed, now indeed turks aside the harsh kemalist army and kemalist politicians have started to question about ataturk reforms. was it completely necessary. what damage has it done to them uptill now.

the scene is, now people want something but in their parliament they are threatened to be crushed by their kemalist army. turks dont want to live in kemalist utopia any more now, times have changes. if we support the kemalism, then its like saying "dubti nayya main kuud betha" (means he boarded the sinking ship)

the stupids who think that quaid-e-azam supported kemalism, a.k.a ataturk, they are wrong, quaid never supported western system of neither democracy nor western values, nor western economic system. he always supported the ideals of pakistani nation. so if you are so stupid to say hey now, quaid has given us one way ticket to "modernize our turkey, oohh sorry our pakistan", then sorry, you are completely misguided and misinformed, you have to seek better education.
 
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Allah Bless Ataturk, he led the Turks from their Islamic Cesspool and singlehandedly led them into the 21st century. If only Pakistan had a leader like Ataturk, who put his nation before his family or his religion...
 
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I think you are mistaking Islam with any other religion and hence the evil doctrine of secular democracy (stupidity), where any tom dick or harry can vote, whether they have an informed opinion or not, whether they understand the values or don't, whether they know what is right or not, but they have the power to elect people.

And in my province, we just saw ANP coming in (that further screwed entire province) and in our country we saw people voting for PPP because the chairperson was assasinated.

How genuine doctrine, indeed.

Now don't confuse Mullahs alliance with Islam. Mullahs do not represent Islam, they are dubbed as Islamic beacons (through a proper conspiracy) so Islam's reputation can be further damaged.

And what part of "getting a country for Indian Muslims" is any different than getting a country for Islam?

Muslim is nothing than a follower of a Islam, and when the followers were not able to practise 'Islam', hence there was a need to get a country for ISLAM, that the followers could follow without any problems.

I am sure, in united India, Hindus would be taking a piss at Muslims and Muslims would not be letting the mow cow alone. Hence the country for Islam, that could not be followed in a country that is so called "secular".

Now Islam is not just a religion, it's a complete doctrine of life, from governance to conduct to jurisprudence to ethics to policies and you name it.

And as a Muslim, everyone is suppose to follow the set guidelines in Islam. There is no additional "policy making" required that is already in Qur'an. And we must understand we are not sent here to live our lives, but for the exam we are giving in order to prove it to our Lord that we have not faulter His deen.

Moreover, a thorough look at Ottoman Caliphate will tell you how Islam excellently can govern. If they could do it for 1000 year, why can't we?

Didn't the world progress in the time of Islamic governances? didn't muslims flourish while under Islamic rule as comparing to secular that we have right now?

I personally think we are screwed under this so called alien concepts, and could not do a single thing (since they conspired and we played in their hands) in comparison to when we had Islamic rule under which we showed the world how the science and arts work.

Thank you!

Umm.... The ottoman empire fell because it was TOO entrenched in Islam, and couldn't modernize at the rate of the Europeans. And you're saying that they fell because they WEREN'T islamic enough? lol. :disagree:
 
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Read all the arguments above...
and only one thing came to my mind...

People fight for religion, die for religion, but don't follow religion.

At death of Kemal Ataturk, the revolutionary leader of modern Turkey, Quaid-E-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah said: “In Kemal Ataturk the Islamic world has lost a great hero.”

so are you going to believe in your own leader or was he also....
well understand this....
someone said that he should be burning in hell!!!
Another point I want to raise is this..
Even God doesn't judge man till the end(i.e. judgement day)
So what is it for us to judge?
Our Lord Allah is there to judge us. So please let him judge.
No offense meant to anyone. And sorry if anyone is hurt.
 
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Kamal Atatürk probably burning in hell rite now(Allahul Alam). This scularist scum disgraced Islam every way we can think of. He has done things against Islamic values that not evan a non muslim would do. After all these year of imposed ultra secularism ideas upon Turkish Muslims they still adore Islam in it's purity. I command my Turkish brother and sister for their comitment toward Islamic value in their personal lives. It has been long personal Jihad agaist secular establishmet but slowly but surely Turk are marching toward Islam.:cheers:

You watch your words Sir..He is the founding father of our Republic!!!!You are free to express your opinions but thats too far!! I am Alhamdulillah Proud Muslim, he didnt destroy anything but only religious extremism and bigotry..Please keep it civil
 
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