Kejriwal's Vision For India-From What he says in his book 'Swaraj'

[VeeraBahadur]

@notsuperstitious welcome back sir.

 

[rubyjackass]

Informal RTI

Where do you live ??

You live in some foreign land. A president of village gets to the position only if he knows most people in the village. And when enough people or 'elders' come to him/her they have to bow to pressure. They are more susceptible to public pressure than our netas. I believe there is already a law that says Presidents are accountable to the Gram Sabha, btw.

 

[dray]

What Kejriwal wants is true devolution of power where people closest to the ground will keep a watch on what is happening near them, maintaining the accountability. The traditional parties want to throw mud on the idea calling it mob rule. How can they otherwise remote control the whole country on their whims? How can they swindle crores if somebody is always watching and being held accountable?

He is not suggesting anything radical, we already have Gram Panchayats and they do enjoy certain level of power in decision making at local level, they can also decide where the money should be spent, corruption happens when powerful people in Panchayats become corrupt, how things will be any different for Gram Sabhas?

And do you understand the repercussions if Gram Sabhas can sack doctors, police, Govt. employees, etc.? Is Gram Sabha qualified enough to decide if the doctor is doing right treatment? If they can sack police for doing wrong things, they can also sack them for NOT doing wrong things as per Gram Sabhas will !! There should stronger system for grievance redressal, but what he is suggesting cannot be a solution.

Please don't go by the issues he is raising, we all know those issues, please focus on the solutions he is offering, are these solutions credible? I don't think so. Take the case of electricity, rates are high, true, giving subsidy to rich people for that, is it right? Subsidy is tax payers' money that could be used to address more pressing issues, and we have plenty of such issues.
I would have supported him on that, had he tried to reduce electricity tariffs by increasing efficiency and reducing cost, not by the easy way of subsidies, that anybody can do, even you & I can do that, that is not a sign of good governance.

 

[Puchtoon]

Don't trivialize an issue. Nobody is saying to give all powers to villages. A panchyat should be allowed to raise more resources. They should be allowed to compensate a villager if he/she gave up land for a village level facility. They should be allowed to name(some sort of reprimand) a public official if they don't duty properly.

Why would anyone not give land for a national cause or common good if they get adequate and timely compensation? The foremost reason why people don't want to give up land to government is because their compensation will come two decades later. By which time, the people go broke. Sentimental issues do matter but they take a backseat to compensation.

I have seen villages where there are better models of administration than our country. There are arrangements between castes to share power. If a higher caste guy became president one term, the next year lower caste person becomes president. In fact, we already have rotating reservations in local bodies elections. A seat is designated as an SC seat or woman seat at the time of election notification. So don't worry about our villages. They will learn propriety, if any more is needed, as time passes. They are already doing a good job at it. In case of any serious conflicts, law and order is anyway in State's hands.

1.It's not only about villages ,its also about cities towns,mohalla sabha is for them too.

2.This is not about panchayat,I have clarified before or read this book yaar ,GRAM SABHA not panchayat.

3.If the gram sabha is going to decide ,no tribal will give land,they love their land but you can have your opinion,i have no issues.

What about the issue of nuclear plant,dams,other development work ?

4.Again your are going somewhere else IT IS NOT ABOUT WHO WILL BE SARPANCH,mob of people gram sabha will be given powers of police judiciary n all ,same for towns and cities

5.If some rape is done with gram sabha's consent,they can do anything with any official .

 

[VeeraBahadur]

You live in some foreign land. A president of village gets to the position only if he knows most people in the village. And when enough people or 'elders' come to him/her they have to bow to pressure. They are more susceptible to public pressure than our netas. I believe there is already a law that says Presidents are accountable to the Gram Sabha, btw.

You don't have even a zilch of idea about what you are speaking.

I live in village and knows the reality. Mukhiya of village earns 20-25 lakhs in 5 years . Your fairy tales are far from reality.

 

[Puchtoon]

Bhaiyon moholla sabha (proposed in AAP's manifesto too) will have same powers as gram sabha ,please think about cities town too
@VeeraBahadur @DRAY
@rubyjackass

 

[rubyjackass]

And do you understand the repercussions if Gram Sabhas can sack doctors, police, Govt. employees, etc.? Is Gram Sabha qualified enough to decide if the doctor is doing right treatment? If they can sack police for doing wrong things, they can also sack them for NOT doing wrong things as per Gram Sabhas will !! There should stronger system for grievance redressal, but what he is suggesting cannot be a solution.

I did not read Kejriwal's book. There is a section in the dopbox book linked by Puchtoon where there is a special section saying 'BASELESS DOUBTS AND ASSUMPTIONS' with subsections 'Atrocities on backward classes' and 'Fear of Khap Panchayats'.

But so far, I have not seen him advocating such sweeping powers to Gram Sabhas. That is just overstretched propaganda vitiated by tongue-biting critics who question whether Kejri will let panchayat give death sentences.

Only local functionaries should be accountable to local bodies. As of today, government employees are accountable to noone, They may at best get suspended when a major incident like train derailment happens. They will get discharged only on court orders, if ever.
And what is wrong if a doctor held accountable by a village panchayat? It is your baseless fear that panchayats will fire doctors everytime a patient dies. That is not at all true. They will learn responsibility and as I said earlier, propriety if anymore is needed.

You don't have even a zilch of idea about what you are speaking.

I live in village and knows the reality. Mukhiya of village earns 20-25 lakhs in 5 years . Your fairy tales are far from reality.

I said village presidents are more accountable than our netas and this is true. Village Presidents earn that much because they get a percentage of everything they contract out and people have accepted that everyone is corrupt and have learned to live with swindling especially when they think the amount is low. When they have real powers, people can no longer afford to ignore this.

 

[Puchtoon]

I did not read Kejriwal's book. There is a section in the dopbox book linked by Puchtoon where there is a special section saying 'BASELESS DOUBTS AND ASSUMPTIONS' with subsections 'Atrocities on backward classes' and 'Fear of Khap Panchayats'.

But so far, I have not seen him advocating such sweeping powers to Gram Sabhas. That is just overstretched propaganda vitiated by tongue-biting critics who question whether Kejri will let panchayat give death sentences.

Only local functionaries should be accountable to local bodies. As of today, government employees are accountable to noone, They may at best get suspended when a major incident like train derailment happens. They will get discharged only on court orders, if ever.
And what is wrong if a doctor held accountable by a village panchayat? It is your baseless fear that panchayats will fire doctors everytime a patient dies. That is not at all true. They will learn responsibility and as I said earlier, propriety if anymore is needed.


I said village presidents are more accountable than our netas and this is true. Village Presidents earn that much because they get a percentage of everything they contract out and people have accepted that everyone is corrupt and have learned to live with swindling especially when they think the amount is low. When they have real powers, people can no longer afford to ignore this.

Some people even after proof don't believe

The 2,700 mohalla sabhas will receive funds from the government and will have powers to get any information from a state government official or municipal body. It can direct and authorise any expenditure and impose penalties or give rewards to government officials who come under the mohalla sabha. -


See more at: AAP’s mohalla sabha proposal is impractical for cities like Delhi - Hindustan Times

 

[ranjeet]

kejriwal can go to hell .... we already have our Khap don't need anything else.

 

[dray]

I did not read Kejriwal's book. There is a section in the dopbox book linked by Puchtoon where there is a special section saying 'BASELESS DOUBTS AND ASSUMPTIONS' with subsections 'Atrocities on backward classes' and 'Fear of Khap Panchayats'.

But so far, I have not seen him advocating such sweeping powers to Gram Sabhas. That is just overstretched propaganda vitiated by tongue-biting critics who question whether Kejri will let panchayat give death sentences.

Only local functionaries should be accountable to local bodies. As of today, government employees are accountable to noone, They may at best get suspended when a major incident like train derailment happens. They will get discharged only on court orders, if ever.
And what is wrong if a doctor held accountable by a village panchayat? It is your baseless fear that panchayats will fire doctors everytime a patient dies. That is not at all true. They will learn responsibility and as I said earlier, propriety if anymore is needed.

You have only answered one of my three paragraphs, at least reply the 3rd paragraph.

And please read that book from page 26 as suggested by @Puchtoon , he is advocating sweeping powers to Gram Sabhas.

 

[rubyjackass]

1.It's not only about villages ,its also about cities towns,mohalla sabha is for them too.

2.This is not about panchayat,I have clarified before or read this book yaar ,GRAM SABHA not panchayat.

3.If the gram sabha is going to decide ,no tribal will give land,they love their land but you can have your opinion,i have no issues.

What about the issue of nuclear plant,dams,other development work ?

Whether you know or not, even today we ask for Gram sabha's permission for projects' land. Project officials, and the government officers(collectors sometimes) attend meetings while trying to convince villagers to give their land. So if there is a question of whole village washing out, we already follow procedures.
If a person losing land is already offered a ready piece of land elsewhere, they will show lesser reluctance. Once enough people take government's offer, the main resistance will go away. It is better than dragging away people from their homes like we do now.

4.Again your are going somewhere else IT IS NOT ABOUT WHO WILL BE SARPANCH,mob of people gram sabha will be given powers of police judiciary n all ,same for towns and cities

That is what I am saying. You are expecting gram sabhas to be insane and from stone age.

5.If some rape is done with gram sabha's consent,they can do anything with any official .

The gram sabhas take illegal measures even now. Giving them more powers does not mean they will suddenly become legal. If you are worried about the gram sabhas gagging officials, that won't happen because even today it is not the village officials that take on these khap leaders. Why else would we see the news after the fact?

Some people even after proof don't believe

The 2,700 mohalla sabhas will receive funds from the government and will have powers to get any information from a state government official or municipal body. It can direct and authorise any expenditure and impose penalties or give rewards to government officials who come under the mohalla sabha. -


See more at: AAP’s mohalla sabha proposal is impractical for cities like Delhi - Hindustan Times

Some patience bhai. I am replying to many posts simultaneously.
I agree mohalla sabhas may be impractical in a city, only because most city people dont care about administration. If they are well off, they don't want to be bothered. I don't agree with everything Kejriwal thinks about. But the devolution of powers is something we need urgently. Otherwise everyone will blame some unknown entity for their problems with no route to solution.

 

[Puchtoon]

Whether you know or not, even today we ask for Gram sabha's permission for projects' land. Project officials, and the government officers(collectors sometimes) attend meetings while trying to convince villagers to give their land. So if there is a question of whole village washing out, we already follow procedures.
If a person losing land is already offered a ready piece of land elsewhere, they will show lesser reluctance. Once enough people take government's offer, the main resistance will go away. It is better than dragging away people from their homes like we do now.


That is what I am saying. You are expecting gram sabhas to be insane and from stone age.

The gram sabhas take illegal measures even now. Giving them more powers does not mean they will suddenly become legal. If you are worried about the gram sabhas gagging officials, that won't happen because even today it is not the village officials that take on these khap leaders. Why else would we see the news after the fact?

1.Yes they may have but they don't have capability of pressuring their demand .

Not something like this which kejriwal advocates (mujhe chahiye swaraj)

“We are seeking a change in the law that directs a company to put up an application for permission to set up a factory in a gram sabha in whose vicinity the land falls. His application for permission will then be decided in the gram sabhas in whose vicinity the land falls.”

Same on water issues

“The water sources that fall under the boundaries of a village will automatically be treated as the property of the village. No decision should be taken, like building a dam, on large water resources like river, without the consent of the village sabhas.”

Imean medha patkar and aruna roy will not let EVEN ONE dam build after these stupid laws.


2.I don't like mob mentality be it 2000BC or 3000AD,mob has certain patterns ,should not be advocated .

3.So you mean giving rapists more power just because now they can escape ? What the H

 

[wolfschanzze]

Look forget all this jokepal things, all we need is a strong leader who can lead the nation,USA peddles in everything, trying the pivot of Asia first it will be economic and technological package to let us catch up with them, like how Pakistan was superior in quality due to USA imports etc. at that time.But where is Pakistan now?
They will play the same game, Indians are good at chess right? so we should sense 5 steps ahead of What USA Thinks & plays and also Sense their End game. Simple play of chess. Checkmate!
For that we need one Decisive leader Mr.Narendra Modi, Wiki leaks already said he was Uncorruptable and he looks eye to eye and made USA swallow things and meet on his terms in Gandhinagar, that is a sign of a leader, who is proud and a patriot!
Alexander said i would be scared of a nation of lambs led by a LION,than a Nation of LIONS led by a LAMB!
So choose what you want!

 

[ranjeet]

 

[rubyjackass]

Please don't go by the issues he is raising, we all know those issues, please focus on the solutions he is offering, are these solutions credible? I don't think so. Take the case of electricity, rates are high, true, giving subsidy to rich people for that, is it right? Subsidy is tax payers' money that could be used to address more pressing issues, and we have plenty of such issues.
I would have supported him on that, had he tried to reduce electricity tariffs by increasing efficiency and reducing cost, not by the easy way of subsidies, that anybody can do, even you & I can do that, that is not a sign of good governance.

I do not support AAP blindly. They are left of centre and I don't like that many times. But their principled stand in electricity is OK. The subsidy is a temporary relief. The audit is the long term action taken. We will know for sure why discoms cost us so much in Delhi and Mumbai whereas it costs much lesser in, say, Hyderabad(1/3rd cost). I am pretty sure there will be skeletons in the closets to be found. Similarly they showed long term action when they dealt with autorickshaw fares. There is no point in setting low govt fare whereas the auto guys rip off public without any regard for metering. Also there is no point in forcing them to buy new meters and GPS together. The government also found out that 21 cr meant for scholarships is not being used by the earlier governments despite granted allocations.

Whether it is right to give short term relief for electricity bills or not is a decision of governance. I think it is fine, especially when they have a plan ahead.