Kayani rejects US propaganda

[Mike2011]

That's really all there's to it. If US can't provide evidence then Pakistan doesn't need to say a whole lot. US is making basically loony conspiracy theories akin to Iraq's WMDs claims.

They can provide proof, for that pakistan should allow US personal inside pakistan.

 

[foxbat]

Atleast the top brass of Military this time will get some Ghairat and start pushing US back and will avail that lost support PA once had in Pakistan. Damn these Americans are stubborn and arrogant people.

All this push back is just for public consumption. End to the disagreement is going to be the same as has been for all other such disagreements. Pak govt relenting and getting compensation in terms of money or military equipment

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

They can provide proof, for that pakistan should allow US personal inside pakistan.

Which would mean they have no proof and are currently lying.

Why should we allow more liars and thugs into the country?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

All this push back is just for public consumption. End to the disagreement is going to be the same as has been for all other such disagreements. Pak govt relenting and getting compensation in terms of money or military equipment

The relationship appears to have been continuing downhill since the RD issue, nor was there any 'money or equipment' involved in that situation. CSF disbursements remain delayed.

I am not entirely sure that your assessment is accurate anymore.

 

[AstanoshKhan]

All this push back is just for public consumption. End to the disagreement is going to be the same as has been for all other such disagreements. Pak govt relenting and getting compensation in terms of money or military equipment

Why you people always look at the single side of the image? Do you even know how much Pakistan and Pakistanis has suffered economically during these years? I live in Pakistan and I'm and many others are the direct affectees of this WoT and as a consequence PA is losing the support of it's own people, which they cannot afford on any price. But let's not get into this discussion once again which has been discussed and debunked here over and over again and I think will derail the thread on hand.

But I just have to say one thing about these recent Pak-US affairs and that is; the stern hand of fate has scourged us to an elevation where we can see the great everlasting things that matter for a nation; the great peaks of honour we had forgotten - duty and patriotism, clad in glittering white; the great pinnacle of sacrifice pointing like a rugged finger to heaven.

Remember, history is replete with examples of empires mounting impressive military campaigns on the cusp of their (impending) economic collapse - and these statements by US officials does show that impending frustration they are in.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Senior Pakistani Military Official on 'So-Called Coalition Partner' U.S.​

For a moment as a senior Pakistani military official spoke to ABC News about his country's most important international relationship, his emotions seemed to get the better of him.

"The U.S. is saying, 'My way or the high way,'" the official said, and slammed his hand down on his desk. "They're going solo." Exasperated, the official told ABC News that "our so-called coalition partner" had put the military at odds with its own population.

"You've pitted us against our own people," he said. "And if you make us choose, of course how can we not choose our own people?"

For years, Pakistan and the U.S. have struggled to maintain a partnership despite constant tension. But a recent spike in CIA drone strikes and a very public disagreement over the detention of a CIA employee who shot and killed two men in Pakistan have created the widest rift yet between the two nations.

Senior military officials on both sides seem fed up. The wide-ranging interview with the Pakistani military official occurred just days before President Obama's top military advisor launched what a Pakistani newspaper called a "diatribe" against Pakistan's powerful intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), an arm of the Pakistani military.

In interviews with Western journalists in Afghanistan and in three separate interviews with Pakistani journalists, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Michael Mullen accused the ISI of supporting the Haqqani network, the most lethal militant group operating against U.S. troops in Afghanistan.

"It's fairly well known that the ISI has a longstanding relationship with the Haqqani network," Mullen said to Pakistani reporters during a visit to the region. "Haqqani is supporting, funding, training fighters that are killing Americans and killing coalition partners. And I have a sacred obligation to do all I can to make sure that doesn't happen."

The Pakistani military then responded in kind -- with a statement released at 2:00 a.m. in Pakistan. After a meeting between Mullen and Chief of Army Staff Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the army's spokesman "strongly rejected negative propaganda of Pakistan not doing enough and Pakistan Army's lack of clarity on the way forward."

Officials on both sides say the strong public criticism does not signify a collapse in the multi-billion dollar relationship that is at the center of efforts to eradicate Al Qaeda and other international terrorist groups. And Pakistani government officials say the military is less angry with the U.S. than it publicly claims. But officials on both sides admit the relationship is more strained than at any point since 9/11, and the Pakistani military, for one, is threatening reprisals if it doesn't improve.

Pakistan Asks CIA To Rein In Operations

The senior Pakistani military official disparaged a recent drone strike, launched less than two days after ISI Director-General Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha asked CIA Director Leon Panetta to rein in some U.S. intelligence operations inside Pakistan. The Pakistani military, the official said, was furious at the timing of the strike, which was akin to "asking us to take a walk."

"They're going solo," the official repeated, "bypassing the Pakistani authorities."

While the drone strike successfully targeted Taliban fighters, the official argued "that's not the point." It increased anti-American sentiment and therefore makes it more difficult for the military to work with the U.S., he said.

"You are putting the government and military in such a tight position, there will be no other choice than to respond," he said, adding that the U.S. would have to "face the consequences" of whipping up media criticism against the Pakistani government and military.

Asked how the military might respond, he said only, "There are always leverages, even for the weaker side."

U.S. officials declined to comment on the Pakistani military official's accusations. But the U.S. embassy in Islamabad released a statement insisting that throughout Mullen's visit, he "emphasized the long-term U.S. commitment to supporting Pakistan in its fight against violent extremists."

Pakistani military and government officials say the ISI wants to return to the days when the drone program started, when the CIA provided more advance warnings of drone targets. Back in 2006, the military official said, the relationship was so much better than it is now that the Pakistan Army pretended it had accidentally bombed a school in order to cover up an errant CIA strike.

"That's the kind of relationship we had back then," the official said. "Could you imagine us doing that now? No way." Today, though it even still helps provide some intelligence for strikes that kill Pakistani militants, the Pakistan Army has criticized two drone strikes in a row.

But what the Pakistani military is also after, the senior official admitted, is a list of all U.S. intelligence officials in Pakistan and their agendas.

Early after 9/11, he and other Pakistani officials say, CIA officials were allowed to enter Pakistan in bulk, and the government was "clueless of the number, the assignments," the senior official said.

The military used the detention of Ray Davis – the CIA contractor who shot and killed two men in January who some officials say were working for the ISI – as an excuse to clamp down on the American operatives.

"The system had become loose," the senior Pakistani military official said. "We felt we lost control."

Pakistan Versus India

The frustration extends to Afghanistan, where the U.S. and Pakistan are positioning themselves for an endgame that will involve political negotiations with insurgents.

The senior Pakistani military official accused the U.S. of purposely withholding its long-term strategy for Afghanistan.

"That leaves you guessing what your so-called coalition partner is up to," he said. "And without a U.S. plan, how does Pakistan create a plan? We're groping in the dark."

There are also other conflicts between the two governments. The U.S. is concerned that Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Punjabi militant group that attacked Mumbai in 2008, is being shielded by the ISI. The senior Pakistan official said he "understood the concern," but painted it as totally inspired by Indian officials.

"Somewhere in the middle of this relationship, the Indians prevailed," the official insisted.

And there is lingering sourness over the Davis detention, which in the words of the Pakistani military official, "couldn't have been handled worse" by U.S. diplomats.

But U.S. and Pakistani officials -- including the senior military official -- were quick to insist that the relationship will survive, if only because it is too important.

"Help us help you," said the official. "If you're not interested in that, how do you expect us to help you?"

Senior Pakistan Military Official on 'So-Called Coalition Partner' U.S. - ABC News

 

[foxbat]

The relationship appears to have been continuing downhill since the RD issue, nor was there any 'money or equipment' involved in that situation. CSF disbursements remain delayed.

I am not entirely sure that your assessment is accurate anymore.

Its the trend my friend. Most of such push backs have ended the same way.. Some with compensations coming in explicitly (RD case involved some blood money paid to the relatives i think) and in some cases implicitly..And i also heard a lot of Pakistani members here claiming that the Drone attacks are happening with clear approval and coordination of the Pak govt.

And RD issue is pretty recent. You could go back over the whole of the last decade and see the trend. All such objections have had a similar ending..

 

[foxbat]

Senior Pakistani Military Official on 'So-Called Coalition Partner' U.S.​

For a moment as a senior Pakistani military official spoke to ABC News about his country's most important international relationship, his emotions seemed to get the better of him.
.....
While the drone strike successfully targeted Taliban fighters, the official argued "that's not the point." It increased anti-American sentiment and therefore makes it more difficult for the military to work with the U.S., he said.

...
Pakistani military and government officials say the ISI wants to return to the days when the drone program started, when the CIA provided more advance warnings of drone targets.

I remember an article in the US press (i read it in a plane on my way to US so dont have a link) where a US military person complained exactly the opposite on how the advanced information provided to Pakistan military resulted in the targets moving away from the attack zone prior to the attack and how withholding that information till the last minute has increased the effectiveness of the strikes manifold. Cant say I blame them for this...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

.....................) where a US military person complained exactly the opposite on how the advanced information provided to Pakistan military resulted in the targets moving away from the attack zone prior to the attack and how withholding that information till the last minute has increased the effectiveness of the strikes manifold. Cant say I blame them for this...

no you cant blame that faceless person who may or may not exist and might be only a imaginative figure in the report tactically released from time to time to the American media by the state department and/ or Langley.

Maybe you should blame Pakistan because you choose to believe something so vague and so baseless because of your nationality and inherent revelry towards Pakistan, so anything anti-Pakistan is automatically correct.

Just for once ,quote one reference which details what terrorist leader was identified where and when in recent times Which the Pakistan forces were unable to eliminate themselves and instead warned him to move out of the harms way before the drone strike?

Can you refer back to the same source and find out what were the names of the terrorist leaders killed in the last 10 or 20 attacks? Where according to that nameless military personnel, America chose to attack without warning or sharing information with Pakistan? By the way do you know that, it is the Pakistani human intelligence on the ground that has helped in targeting the terrorists in the past? Without that support all the drones have managed so far is shoot missiles on weddings, funerals or tribal gathering resulting in innocent loss of life.


The present American administration has failed miserably and is loosing the game in Afghanistan, and it is desperate for the escape goats. the bulk of the Taliban/ Al Qaeda leadership was killed or captured in Pakistan or Afghanistan during Bush era. Despite the surge, the American led NATO performance is lacklustre. All they have managed is to hilight some mentally ill and morally sick soldiers that have murdered civilians in cold blood and then made videos of the “kills” and took pictures of the dead as trophies.

Coming to drone strikes, The only notable figure I can remember is Baithullah Mehsud back in 2009 and that too according to my own sources was a strike by mistake.
You chose to believe what that nameless military personnel said abut Pakistan, now read on and enjoy what actually happened that led to the death of Baithulah Mehsud, just like CIA wont tire accusing ISI about supporting Haqani group in Afghanistan. We found proofs of American support to the TTP that even included American military equipment currently being used by the forces in Afghanistan. (to which a lame and weak excuse given is that such American equipment is easily available in Afghan black market, why don’t NATO forces stop that btw? Well moving on)

So I was talking about the death of Baithullah Mehsud, actually he was killed by American drone by mistake, an Arab terrorist ID was used instead of Baithullah Mehsud because ISI had learnt it in the past that despite providing intel about the possible sighting of Baihullah Mehsud, Americans had time and again failed to strike on him because according to our own sources, Americans are using TTP as a leverage against Pakistan and don’t consider TTP and its leadership as a threat to its operation in Afghanistan. So after the strike on the former TTP leader when the truth dawned on the CIA that their target was in fact someone they had been deliberately avoiding and protecting for the future there was mourning from Largely to white house.

Roughly that is the time when CIA’s opened up its bag of accusations against the ISI which was clearly a mark of their frustration, anger and torment that they had been played by ISI.

Yea it seems very fair to blame Pakistan for looking into its own interests, safeguarding its own public and flatly refuse to acknowledge the Pakistani concerns regarding the collateral damage from drone strikes but on the same hand justify these strikes to safeguard American public? How lame and daft is that? How can American policy makers expect to save American public by killing people of another country indiscriminately and actually giving a helping hand to the terrorist propaganda?

And then this all tough talk from CIA officials, which is so lame and looks like it has been picked up from a B movie script. Definitely it is meant for domestic audience and to help build up the image of the current administration that has fallen flat on its promise of “change” and the only possible way out is to bomb the crap out of a god forsaken place thousands of miles away and then tell the American public that this administration is as tough and badass as the Republicans in waiting.


This ISI/ Pak Army bashing is the expression of failed US policy in Afghanistan where it totally disregarded the Pashton majority and didn’t bring it to the political make up of the Afghan government in the post Taliban setup, has failed to rein in the rampant corruption of the Afghan movement that is so blatant and overt that the ministers and family members of Afghan President are seen and caught flying out of Afghanistan with millions of dollars of aid. Its so called surge has failed to halt the Taliban resurgence and has left the Pak Afghan border virtually unmanned and only chooses to blame Pakistan for the free Taliban movement across the border.

I think the worse mistake by the Obama was the sacking of Gen Stanley Mc Crystal, this was sort of an own goal loosing a very capable and smart general who was willing to listen and understand the Afghan Pushton not from a gun sight but face to face meeting and bringing them on the same side rather than leaving them to be influenced and claimed by Taliban. Sadly, the egotistic Obama found the frank and no nonsense talk of the general too insulting and gave in to the pressure of firing him.

Finally I must remind everyone who finds these anti Pakistan stories very appealing and finds himself obliged to believe them without question., that Haqqani and his network is not worth even a single life of a Pakistani soldier or civilian. He can live or die wherever for all we care. We have suffered a lot and loss way to many lives already. Pakistan’s first and foremost preference is safeguarding Pakistan and its people. From the time of the Russian invasion to the current American Invasion of Afghanistan, Pakistan has paid dearly and suffered the most after the Afghans themselves.