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''Kayani feared condemning Guv murder may endanger army unity''

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''Kayani feared condemning Guv murder may endanger army unity''

New York, Mar 4 (PTI) Pakistan''s army chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who had "declined" to publicly condemn the January killing of Punjab Governor Salmaan Taseer, had told Western envoys that there were "too many soldiers" in the ranks who "sympathised" with the assassin, a noted author has claimed.

For its part, the army has so far failed to express regret on either Minority Affairs Minister Shahbaz Bhatti''s murder or Taseer''s, Lahore-based author Ahmed Rashid, also a senior journalist, wrote in ''The New York Review of Books''.

Both Bhatti, the only Christian member of the Pakistani Cabinet, and Taseer were killed for opposing the controversial blasphemy law.
Kayani "declined to publicly condemn Taseer''s death or even to issue a public condolence to his family. He told Western ambassadors in January in Islamabad that there were too many soldiers in the ranks who sympathise with the killer," Rashid wrote.

The army chief showed the envoys "a scrapbook of photographs of Taseer''s killer being hailed as a hero by fellow police officers. Any public statement, he hinted, could endanger the army''s unity," Rashid said.

Behind this silence lies "something more sinister," he wrote. "For decades the army and the ISI have controlled the extremist groups, arming and training them in exchange for their continuing to serve as proxy forces in Afghanistan and Kashmir. But in recent years, the army has lost control of them and they are striking targets of their own."

"Yet the army has refused to help crack down on its rogue proteges � despite the fact that extremists have increasingly attacked the army and the ISI itself," Rashid said.

This is all the more ominous in view of the resources the military commands: half a million men, another half a million reserves, 110 nuclear arms, according to US media estimates, and one of the largest intelligence agencies in the world, the ISI, which has an estimated 100,000 employees, he noted.

"If the army has now surrendered any willingness to take on the extremists, the political establishment had already given up long ago," Rashid wrote.

President Asif Ali Zardari, the husband of slain PPP leader Benazir Bhutto, is no stranger to extremism himself and his populist base has traditionally voted for the party''s "anti-mullah, anti-army and pro-people policies," he said.

"Unfortunately those principles were abandoned by a series of corrupt and ineffectual leaders, and the PPP today is not even a shadow of what it once was," he said, while noting that Zardari has also "backtracked" on foreign policy goals such as improving relations with India and Afghanistan.

"The security agencies have unleashed Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) -- the largest and most feared extremist group in Pakistan, which was behind the 2008 Mumbai attacks -- on to the streets of Lahore," Rashid said.
"Right now Pakistan is becoming a place where there is an army without a country," he wrote.

''Kayani feared condemning Guv murder may endanger army unity'' -  International News
 
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storm in a tea cup!

ahmad rashid while a accomplished jurno, has a anti-army / military stance. it is the duty of the govt. in charge to condemn such incidents. Kiyani generally has 'refrained' from issuing any public statements after the Kerry-Luger bill fiasco!
his public pronouncements remain restricted to the WoT where the military is involved. the internal security is being left to the interior ministry and its civilian law enforcement agencies.

lets say kiyani did condemn the shootings, i am 100% sure there would be 'criticism' from the media that this is not a army matter!

such incidents cannot de-rail army unity - it is discplined and well organised.

so damned if he does, damned if he dosnt!
 
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Disciplined, eh? Well organized, you say -- and yet terrorists roam the streets and avenues of major cities like they own them, and entire parts of Pakistan are under the control of so called insurrectionists -- even as more than a million and a half trained and armed personnel are available to deal with the problem????

Friends, something here is just, well, you all know something is out of balance, not on the level -- it just cannot be that....., well, you know ..but hiding from it or fearing to admit it, won't solve our problems.
 
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What problem we are facing this is political clash, at this moment army trying to avoid its participation in general political matters but putting an eye. Problem is this that nobody concentrate with its field of area every organization want to penetrate in other or look for others if we get success to keep them with their line, then situation may better.

Moreover this thread posted as traditional thread where always tried to link army, nukes & Political situation(which doesn't related with strategic issues). Even i am not surprised.

Let article be alone with its contents.
 
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This is just a perception and propaganda by The Western Media to not miss any chance against Pakistan Army.
 
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''Kayani feared condemning Guv murder may endanger army unity''
Islamabad that there were too many soldiers in the ranks who sympathise with the killer," Rashid wrote.

The army chief showed the envoys "a scrapbook of photographs of Taseer''s killer being hailed as a hero by fellow police officers. Any public statement, he hinted, could endanger the army''s unity," Rashid said.

2 questions now

since when Rashid has decided that Pakistan Army chief’s new role is to brief the “envoys” and “diplomats”? does he have any names of those "diplomats"? the only people he meets are American generals & politicians strictly regarding WoT & they dont give a toss about police scrap book, Ahmed Rashid & kuku land where this report comes from

second question since when Rashid decided that police officers form the ranks of Pakistan Army? someone help me here.. why Rashid only mentions police and why not lawyers? its them two who are seen hailing the assassin. Rashid tries to be smart by omitting the lawyers from his report but makes an arse out of himself just like this whole report. So chief is (allegedly) afraid to express his condemnation of Solomon Taseer’s murder because the Police idealises the murderer?:what: does this report make sense? how does police sentiment affect army unity? wishful thinking Mr Rashid::coffee:writer seems to be suffering from & the elbow dilemma

Behind this silence lies "something more sinister," he wrote. "For decades the army and the ISI have controlled the extremist groups, arming and training them in exchange for their continuing to serve as proxy forces in Afghanistan and Kashmir. But in recent years, the army has lost control of them and they are striking targets of their own."

"Yet the army has refused to help crack down on its rogue proteges � despite the fact that extremists have increasingly attacked the army and the ISI itself," Rashid said.

the reporter is definitely living in a parallel universe. Ahmed Rashid is is still employed by BBC because he fulfils the role of anti-Pakistan propaganda. Back in 2003 he predicted that Pakistan state was to fall in 6 months. He repeated the same analysis before Swat operation. Check out his previous writings and you will see similar copy pasted paragraphs blaming Pakistan army and ISI for all the ills.
Pakistan army is not discriminating in its hunt for TTP, LeT and Indian backed BLA and siphah sahabah. We have captured or killed many leaders already and will continue to do so. Formatting the paragraph into bold and blue doesn’t change this fact. Following is the list of some of the terrorist leaders that have been captured or killed in the operations
They range from all local, regional international terrorist organisations. They have been killed or captured through exclusive or join Pakistan armed forces & ISI operations.



Akbar Bughti
Baitullah Mehsud
Faqir Mohammed
Nek Muhammad Wazir
Mohammad Hasan Khalil al-Hakim
Atiyah Abd al-Rahman
Abu Laith al-Libi
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
Abdul Rashid Ghazi
Abdul Aziz Ghazi
Sufi Muhammad
Nasib Zada
Sheikh Fateh

now lastly some information for the thread starter and my other fellow Indian members. The Mosque Imams from the unit level to garrison level give Friday sermons against extremism & truth about TTP and have condemned the killing & intimidation in the name of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH because the very action is contradictory to the devotion & love for the Prophet. Clearly Rashid has chosen to give it a miss just like he chose to omit the report about Punjab Assembly (that has Nawaz League government ) that passed a resolution condemning the murder of Solomon and offered the condolences. Point to note is that it’s the same party which has more leaning towards right wing. So even a political party is not afraid to express its opinion about this which has to go to same people for the votes. It is because the ground reality is totally different from what this writer and “some” foreign media tries to portray.

Finally it is not Army chiefs job to give statements that doesn’t involve the army operations. This is the job of the interior ministry. If there are incidents that may have direct or indirect impact on the army then ISPR will issue the statement.

Note to the thread starter
Next time do some research before starting a new thread as a news.. If the intention is usual Pakistan bashing then please highlight it as an opinion so that it can be read with that in mind.:coffee:
 
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This is the link to the original article - An Army Without a Country
An Army Without a Country by Ahmed Rashid | NYRBlog | The New York Review of Books

Excerpt

As a result, there is a vicious double game playing out in the streets, fueling the tensions that resulted in Bhatti’s death. The security agencies have unleashed Lashkar-e-Taiba (LT)—the largest and most feared extremist group in Pakistan, which was behind the 2008 Mumbai attacks—on to the streets of Lahore. The group has been banned by the US, Britain and the United Nations and supposedly by Pakistan too. LT stalwarts have been demonstrating daily outside the US consulate to ensure that Raymond Davis—who was apparently charged with monitoring their activities—hangs. By giving free reign to such banned groups the security agencies may have inadvertently signaled to all extremist groups, including the sectarian groups who hate Christians, that they are free to take the law into their own hands. What is behind this complex and mind-boggling strategy? It is all part of a wider cat and mouse escalation between the US and the Pakistani military. The army wants to control any future peace talks that the US may have with the Taliban, so that the army’s aims for a future pro-Pakistan Afghan government in Kabul are met. Its leaders also want to make doubly sure that any long-term American arrangements do not leave Pakistan’s rival India in a stronger position in Afghanistan.

So far the US seems unmoved; and it has already circumvented the ISI to start indirect peace talks with some Taliban. One consequence is that the military are allowing extremist groups considered anathema to the US on the streets. This is also why Davis is not being freed, and why US-Pakistan relations are at their worst in many years. In the meantime, the army and the government continue to receive about $3 billion a year in US military and economic aid.

On March 3, Senator Bob Corker, who recently visited Islamabad, told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that he found Pakistan “the most disheartening place in the world to be, where you are talking the type of relationship that we have.” He added, “I think that in many ways we get played like a piece of music” by the Pakistanis.

The ISI may well be playing the Americans, but it does so at the cost of steadily ceding ground to the extremists. Right now Pakistan is becoming a place where there is an army without a country.
 
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Off-topic:

Ahmed Rashid is a very good author. I have one of his books 'Descent into Chaos: How US is losing the war in Afghanistan, Central Asia and Iraq'.


-It seems top leaders like Tony Blair and Hamid Karzai know him very well.

-In the book, he has written that when George Bush first heard the name 'Taliban', he thought it for an all-girls pop group !

-Apparently, the assassin of Benazir Bhutto used a Chinese-made pistol.

His book is real awesome. You should be buying it. It has very good sources too.
 
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Off-topic:

Ahmed Rashid is a very good author. I have one of his books 'Descent into Chaos: How US is losing the war in Afghanistan, Central Asia and Iraq'.


-It seems top leaders like Tony Blair and Hamid Karzai know him very well.

-In the book, he has written that when George Bush first heard the name 'Taliban', he thought it for an all-girls pop group !

-Apparently, the assassin of Benazir Bhutto used a Chinese-made pistol.

His book is real awesome. You should be buying it. It has very good sources too.

Anything that's against Pakistan, should and must look awesome to our neighbouring country. Its just natural. Please do not feel bad if you enjoy the book; for our forum members from our "friendly neighbourhood ........"
 
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This guy is a neo-con - he used to be extremely left wing, and now is right wing go figure.
 
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Disciplined, eh? Well organized, you say -- and yet terrorists roam the streets and avenues of major cities like they own them, and entire parts of Pakistan are under the control of so called insurrectionists -- even as more than a million and a half trained and armed personnel are available to deal with the problem????

Friends, something here is just, well, you all know something is out of balance, not on the level -- it just cannot be that....., well, you know ..but hiding from it or fearing to admit it, won't solve our problems.
That is neither entirely fair nor accurate criticizm. The Army and Military Intelligence are not responsible for security and intel gathering across all of Pakistan and all of its cities. The ISI remains a, primarily, foreign focused intelligence agency, especially with Gen. Kiyani deciding to disband its 'political wing' in order to minimize military interference in domestic politics. The agencies responsible for security across most of Pakistan and its cities are the civilian ones - the Interior Ministry, FIA, IB, Provincial Police and Provincial Intelligence agencies. They are the ones with the largest amount of resources and manpower deployed domestically that can be used to track and eliminate terrorists/criminals, not the ISI and Army. The 'million and a half' Army and ISI personnel and associated resources are not deployed in 'major cities' and across Pakistan for domestic law enforcement, but the civilian agencies and institutions mentioned above are.

And to understand why the civilian Intelligence Bureau and Federal Investigation Agency have performed so miserably, one merely has to look at reports such as the ones in the following thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/92993-zardari-destroys-domestic-intelligence-agency.html

That said, the Military and Military intelligence are responsible for security and intelligence gathering operations inside Pakistan territory in areas where the military is deployed to combat terrorists/insurgents (such as FATA and Swat), and questioning their policies in those areas is both legitimate and necessary. However, you cannot place blame for everything that goes wrong in Pakistan on the Army. I would like to point out that the combined military and economic resources of NATO overshadow Pakistan's 'Million and a half Army' by a couple of million and a few trillion dollars easily - yet the number of forces NATO has deployed in Afghanistan to cover an area much larger than FATA and Swat combined (and millions more residents), are almost the same as those deployed by Pakistan.

Does that then imply, given the implications of your argument, that the US/NATO are even less committed to fighting terrorism, and even more duplicitous, than Pakistan is?
 
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'Indian source - not credible'

I hear it coming in the distance.

Please stop trolling.

If you think that the source is a valid one, point out why, instead of posting nonsense such as this, or ignore the posts questioning the source.

What you could have done here is point out that the Indian source quoted a Pakistani author and his piece in a Western media outlet, and, going a step further, done what Bang Galore did and post the original piece itself.

As a senior member, help guide discussions in a constructive direction an enhance the quality of debate, don't muck around in the gutter yourself and drag the discussion into it.
 
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some facts about General Kiyani.

he speaks very little,
he often doesnt answer questions,
he smokes all the time,
he doesnt drink,

"greatest man alive in intelligence world." Ex CIA director.
 
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