Kashmir Situation & Pakistan's War Options

[masterchief_mirza]

"So the facts are, you refused plebiscite in Kashmir, when it suited you. You invaded Kashmir, when it suited you."

That's your interpretation. Pakistan would never allow a rigged plebiscite. Just as India would never allow a fair plebiscite. It is in Pakistan's interests that democracy is served in Kashmir. Got that yet? Pakistani interests and democracy dovetail neatly.

Conversely it is in Indian interests that any plebiscite be rigged, or Hari Singh sign an order against the will of his subjects, as India cannot win fairly. Democracy and Indian interests diverge. Don't forget the elections you fukerrs RIGGED in IoK decades back.

So next time some old Indian villager has lok sabha ink on her finger in some happy joy world's biggest democracy photo op for western consumption, just remember those hard facts that wipe the floor with your b.S. self serving interpretations.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Isn't that what i have written?

Plebiscite was offered to Pakistan under UN supervision, if Pakistani invaders who has invaded Kashmir withdrew.

Sheikh Abdullah the elected leader of Kashmiri people would remain and Indian army, which was legally present in j&K, due accession of J&k to India would remain for maintaining law and order.

Infact these were exact the same pre-condition(for plebiscite in Kashmir) UN resolution 47 came up with, more than a year later.

And history is witness, how Jinnah refused the Indian offer, decided to continue with his invasion of Kashmir.



Nope, Read UN resolution 47 ...which came more than a year after, India offered plebiscite to Pakistan in Jinnah - Mountbatten talks.

That also stated the same conditions, since Pakistan was the invader, it had to remove all its forces, Indian forces which who were legally present in J&K, had to reduce, its forces to a minimum, for maintaining law and order and then the plebiscite would be held under UN supervision.

Then why nehru promises in the front of the world. (UN) please explain @Osiris

 

[Osiris]

"So the facts are, you refused plebiscite in Kashmir, when it suited you. You invaded Kashmir, when it suited you."

That's your interpretation. Pakistan would never allow a rigged plebiscite. Just as India would never allow a fair plebiscite. It is in Pakistan's interests that democracy is served in Kashmir. Got that yet? Pakistani interests and democracy dovetail neatly.

Conversely it is in Indian interests that any plebiscite be rigged, or Hari Singh sign an order against the will of his subjects, as India cannot win fairly. Democracy and Indian interests diverge. Don't forget the elections you fukerrs RIGGED in IoK decades back.

So next time some old Indian villager has lok sabha ink on her finger in some happy joy world's biggest democracy photo op for western consumption, just remember those hard facts that wipe the floor with your b.S. self serving interpretations.

How would it have been rigged, since it was UN, which would have conducted the plebiscite ?

UN gave the exact same preconditions for plebiscite in UN resolution No 47, as India had offered to Jinnah more than a year earlier.

But Jinnah refused and continued the war, because he knew, he would loose the plebiscite.

Then why nehru promises in the front of the world. (UN) please explain @Osiris

Nehru in, all his idealism genuinely wanted plebiscite in Kashmir.

But Pakistan kept refusing(Jinnah in 47) or later dilly dallying(after UN resolutions).

After the first UN resolution on Kashmir. Indian wanted a plebiscite, as quickly as possible, but Pakistan kept delaying, fearing that it would loose, even the territory it had captured. For Shiekh Abdullah the immensely popular leader of Kashmiris, was firmly in favor of joining India.

As the years passed Indians hardened their position, has been so, ever since, and now it is out the question.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

How would it have been rigged, since it was UN, which would have conducted the plebiscite ?

UN gave the exact same preconditions for plebiscite in UN resolution No 47, as India had offered to Jinnah more than a year earlier.

But Jinnah refused and continued the war, because he knew, he would loose the plebiscite.



Nehru in, all his idealism genuinely wanted plebiscite in Kashmir.

But Pakistan kept refusing(Jinnah in 47) or later dilly dallying(after UN resolutions).

After the first UN resolution on Kashmir. Indian wanted a plebiscite, as quickly as possible, but Pakistan kept delaying, fearing that it would loose, even the territory it had captured. For Shiekh Abdullah the immensely popular leader of Kashmiris, was firmly in favor of joining India.

As the years passed Indians hardened their position, has been so, ever since, and now it is out the question.

Rigged by manipulation of population demographics, locking up any literate Muslims as a "security precaution" prior to any plebiscite. Y'know, like what you're trying to do now. Why do you try to conceal facts when the snake has already revealed its true form? Be proud of whomsoever you are and whomsoever you support. If the Hindustan you love has regressed to some primordial dictatorship, be proud of it. Modi is.

"The India Today reported that ″starting about two weeks before the election, 600 opposition workers were arrested in areas where the MUF, independents, and PC candidates were showing strength″.

From Wikipedia. You bststards did the same in 1987. You honestly expect Pakistan AT ANY POINT IN THE HISTORY OF YOUR DISGUSTING FILTHY VOTE-RIGGING, DEMOGRAPHY-ENGINEERING, ELITE/EDUCATED CITIZEN- EXILING SCUMBAG NATION to actually trust you to not interfere with any democratic process??

You bsystsard pseudosecular faux-democratic typed really get on my nerves. I have no problem with hard-core Hindutva fascists who admit who they are. I have no problem with Indian educated types who admit their nation has problems implementing democracy. But YOU sir, dimwits like you who have the audacity to suggest that Hindustan has EVER played the democracy game at any level above that of Mugabe's Zimbabwe.....fukkkk me for even wasting my time replying to you scumlords. Your whining that "India is democracy shining while pakistan is militarized dictatorship that oppressed its own people blah blah". Whadda load of shiiit even trying to talk to your kind.

Either accept your nation is a glorified Zimbabwean model of "democracy" or do one.

Sheikh Abdullah Whadda fraud his whole family is. Did you hear the crying "this is not my India!!!" When the abdullahs got their rewards by being arrested for obeying Delhi all these years and profiting from rigged elections?? Fukkkk me again. You lot are as bad as sharifs. Why arrest these so called "popular" leaders if you love them so much??

Seriously man. Just state plain and simple. India did what it did to Kashmir because it could. From that point of truth, we may continue our war as men until it reaches its appropriate conclusion. But if you come to me as a snake, pretending India is some innocent victim of Pakistani aggression and Pakistani invasion, then you will be treated as a snake.

Hari Singh committed the original LIE and the original CRIME AGAINST DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES. hindustan has spent its whole life piling lie after lie after lie into that original lie in order to sustain it. Did your mother never teach you that a single lie snowballs in this way?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Nehru in, all his idealism genuinely wanted plebiscite in Kashmir.

But Pakistan kept refusing(Jinnah in 47) or later dilly dallying(after UN resolutions).

After the first UN resolution on Kashmir. Indian wanted a plebiscite, as quickly as possible, but Pakistan kept delaying, fearing that it would loose, even the territory it had captured. For Shiekh Abdullah the immensely popular leader of Kashmiris, was firmly in favor of joining India.

As the years passed Indians hardened their position, has been so, ever since, and now it is out the question

the main problem, is to plebiscite under the occupied forces of India every body know that if its it did not entirely fair, and the whole world knows UNC resolutions for all Kashmir, not just for Azad Kashmir, yeah in Indian view we were the invader But for local tribes men/peoples we were their savor, and joining of IOK by the dogra raj was illegal because dogra raj didn't as kasmiris people and impose this verdict forcefully on people of Kashmir, Sheikh Abdullah immensely popular among Kashmiris leaders when he supports freedom of Kashmir from India, after he betrays Kashimiris he was nothing but consider a puppet of India , and don't trying to twist the history you pathetic troll @Osiris

 

[MM_Haider]

and how do you know tell me that we should first improve our economic situations first than then will think about go with war but currently war is out of question for Pakistan @MM_Haider

India's economic situation is also bad. All I am saying that soon India is going to attack Pakistan - because Hindutva rule India. They have installed Modi and even if Modi will refuse that powerful upper caste Hindu establishment will get rid of him. When it is obvious, Pakistan should play by its own rules and retain the escalation ladder right from start. Pakistan should get rid of her reactionary policies.

 

[dray / Rain Man]

So here are Pakistan's options where I would like comments from senior junior members well versed with warfare..

1. Limited war at LoC while being prepared for an out war.
2. Start by destrying India's dams on the grounds of water terrorism by India.
3. Close India's route of energy supply through Arabian Sea.
4. Keeping end in the mind, nuke Mumbai to start with.
5. Open LoC and allow common people to cross into Kashmir and engage Indian forces there.
6. Wait till India acquires Rafale, then go on a war.

Comment, please!!!!!!

Excellent post, ideas are bright, point 1 to 5 are indeed brilliant, Pakistani leadership should pay heed....but when?

 

[thesolar65]

There are many threads on the issue but most are unrealistic and emotional. I want to give a somewhat realistic option. Keeping aside the discussion about whether we go to war or not, lets assume we have to, because there is no other option. In my opinion we can do the following.


1- First smuggle large amount of wepons and ammunition along with IEDs to kashmiri freedom fighters.
2- inflitrate special services operative to join hands with freedom fighters and block logistic supply routes.
3- as supply routes are being blocked, have a multi pronged lightning fast incursion through LOC and capture key areas.
4- arrest as many indian army personnel as possible and shift them to Pakistan for future negotiations. These should include pundits too.
5- be fully ready on south punjab borders.
6- partial blockade of arabian sea with help of missiles and subs
7- as situation gets hot, have a live fire test of a tactical nuke (minaturised ones) near the southern area borders. The radiation on border area will deter any indian incursions and also scare the international community, which will hasten to stop the war.
8- hold positions in IOK and negotiate a ceasefire by using those thousands of soldiers and pundits captured.
9- do all this before india gets rafale.
10- announce a referendum in the whole of kashmir (including AJK) and ask UN and EU observers to help monitor and conduct a free and fair plebiscite. Also ask for UN peacekeeping mission to be deployed.

This will not only let us keep the liberated areas but also give legitimacy to it. We might face some sanctions for testing live fire nuke but we can handle that.
What do the PDF seniors think?

@Mangus Ortus Novem @Shane @Khafee@Dubious @Signalian @I.R.A @Areesh@war&peace @Farah Sohail @Zibago@Arsalan @waz and others

WOW!!

 

[Ultima Thule]

India's economic situation is also bad. All I am saying that soon India is going to attack Pakistan - because Hindutva rule India. They have installed Modi and even if Modi will refuse that powerful upper caste Hindu establishment will get rid of him. When it is obvious, Pakistan should play by its own rules and retain the escalation ladder right from start. Pakistan should get rid of her reactionary policies.

India have some/slight Chance to Survive because it has 10 bigger economy that of Pakistan and Pakistan has no chance , simple as that, if you have a comprehension problem, then its not my problem @MM_Haider

 

[El Sidd]

I foresee great bloodshed in the region.

Jinnahs Jihad will be successfull inshallah.

 

[MM_Haider]

India have some/slight Chance to Survive because it has 10 bigger economy that of Pakistan and Pakistan has no chance , simple as that, if you have a comprehension problem, then its not my problem @MM_Haider

Bro it is not about comprehension .. it is about reality!! India has usurp Kashmir. Which we can’t liberate through diplomatic channels. Pakistan needs to up the ante other than diplomacy. Even a little threat of invading Kashmir and declaring Jihad will make whole world run to find a solution. Economic situation is not going to improve in foreseeable future. This doesn’t mean that we should be silent spectator. Now IK has said that Pakistanis will protest every week till his lecture on mushartee uloom at UNGA!! As per your comments that Pakistan should first improve economic situation— it is a lost cause and hope against hope to have Kashmir liberated!!

 

[Ultima Thule]

Bro it is not about comprehension .. it is about reality!! India has usurp Kashmir. Which we can’t liberate through diplomatic channels. Pakistan needs to up the ante other than diplomacy. Even a little threat of invading Kashmir and declaring Jihad will make whole world run to find a solution. Economic situation is not going to improve in foreseeable future. This doesn’t mean that we should be silent spectator. Now IK has said that Pakistanis will protest every week till his lecture on mushartee uloom at UNGA!! As per your comments that Pakistan should first improve economic situation— it is a lost cause and hope against hope to have Kashmir liberated!!

Bro Bro i am sorry to say your all retard conspiracy theories/ stupid suggestion are illogical/lack of commonsense, if Pakistan will attack India with nukes as you suggest one of your stupid suggestion what happened to Pakistan, AGAR PAKISTAN HI NAHI RAHA TU KIA HO GA KASHMIR ISSUE KO HUM LOG CHATAIN GAY KIA @MM_Haider

 

[Blueskiez 2001]

Look at the reality on the ground: IF India was the rightful in Kashmir why do they need so many troops to uphold their rightfulness??

Rest is pure academic