Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[GUNNER]

Indian MPs Heckled On Kashmir Fact-Finding Mission

SRINAGAR, India, Sept 21, 2010 (AFP) - Indian lawmakers on a fact-finding missing to violence-hit Kashmir cut short a hospital tour after being heckled by patients' relatives on Tuesday as separatists called for fresh protests.

The members of parliament from New Delhi were part of an all-party delegation sent to Kashmir, where more than 100 civilians have been shot dead by police and paramilitary troops during a wave of separatist protests.

Several delegates arrived at the main hospital in Srinagar, Indian Kashmir's summer capital, to meet patients injured in three months of clashes between stone-throwing protesters and security forces using live rounds.

The lawmakers were hurried away after just 10 minutes as people inside the hospital chanted slogans against rule from New Delhi, an AFP reporter at the hospital said.

Some hospital staff and relatives of the injured by police firing also shouted "Go India, Go back!" at the delegates, who looked surprised by the hostile reception.

A total of 37 national politicians, led by Home Minister P. Chidambaram, were on Monday snubbed by many local Kashmiri leaders who campaign either for autonomy or for complete independence for the Muslim-majority region.

Hardline separatist Syed Ali Geelani, who has organised the almost daily protests, refused to attend Monday's talks at a conference centre in Srinagar.

Geelani called for further street rallies on Thursday and Friday even if strict curfews that are keeping people indoors are still in place.

Moderate separatist leaders such as Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and Yasin Malik also dismissed the delegation, describing it as a publicity stunt to disguise the government's inability to end the escalating unrest in Kashmir.

"The fact that the city is locked down under a curfew and residents cannot leave their houses while these politicians are here says everything," Farooq told AFP Tuesday.

"They must meet the common people if they want to hear the real aspirations of Kashmiris. They already know the truth about the curfews and police brutality."

Chidambaram was not at the hospital where the protests erupted, but instead visited the volatile town of Tangmarg with other delegates and the chief minister of Kashmir, Omar Abdullah.

On September 13, security forces in Tangmarg killed six protesters as mobs burnt down government buildings and a missionary school. During the worst day of violence for years in Kashmir, 17 civilians and one police officer died.

"The delegation has come obviously to get a report about the ground situation here," Abdullah told reporters. "We tried to ensure that the delegation meets as many people as possible."

The most recent death, a female bystander shot by paramilitary troops at a protest on Sunday evening, brought the number of civilians killed to 106.

The all-party delegates are expected to return to New Delhi on Wednesday after spending the night in Jammu, the Hindu-majority part of Indian Kashmir.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has vowed to that feedback from the visit would influence the government's "evolving response" to Kashmir, but few observers predict any imminent breakthrough.

 

[su-47]

First:

Palestine - UN recognised right to indpendence,Kashmir - Un doesnt recognise independence

Palestine - Did any ruler formally accede to Israel - NO ; Kashmir - the Maharaja formally signed the instrument of accession to make it a part of India.

Palestine - are the Palestinians chased out from Palestine- yes ; Kashmir - are the Kashmiris chased outfrom Kashmir - no (if the Hindus/Sikhs/Jains qualify as "Kashmiris" then maybe Yes)

Palestine - is their territory being occupied by settlers - yes : Kashmir - is territory being occupied by Hindu settlers from rest of India - NO

Palestine - do Tanks ,bulldozers regularly demolish homes,buildings - YES ; Kashmir - Have Tanks even come once inside SriNagar - NO

Palestine - Do attack Helicopters regularly fire missiles at anything moving - YES ; Kashmir - Does that thing happen here - NO

Palestine - IS any HAMAS leader safe from MOSSAD - NO ; Kashmir - IS any hair on the head of a separatist leader harmed - NO .Infact they are given treatment at the taxpayers expense in Delhi and Mumbai


Palestine - Do the Israeli police calmly bear all the stones thrown on them - NO ; Kashmir - Poor CRPF not even allowed to fire and given only a lathi in hand.

Palestine - IS there a shortage of basic materials - YES ; Kashmir - one of the least poor states in India with annual assitance going into thousands of crores.

Palestine - IS there any blockade of essential supplies in place - YES ; Kashmir - NO[/B]



so basically the quoted part goes down the drain.

Second:



Indians praise Israel,not some lonely figure sitting in Ireland pretending to be a columnist.

Thirdly:



The thread starter forgot to bold these particular words.So now what happens to the deeper than ocean friendship.?

Damn, you pretty much nailed it. You should mail this to Rob Brown. will enlighten him

 

[SpArK]

Damn, you pretty much nailed it. You should mail this to Rob Brown. will enlighten him

You mean Rob Brown, the actor??

Or is it Dan brown u are referring to??

 

[EjazR]

In restless Kashmir, desire for independence grows - CSMonitor.com

Even among Pakistani Kashmiris, who share a religion with Islamabad, the desire for independence is growing because of discontent with the economy, difficulty of movement, and identification with Indian Kashmiris.

Muzaffarabad, Pakistan-administered Kashmir —

While a group of Indian lawmakers arrived in Indian Kashmir on Monday hoping to resolve a crisis there that has seen more than 100 civilians killed in the past three months, a surprising amount of Kashmiris in Pakistani Kashmir say they want to see independence from both countries.

In dozens of interviews with the Monitor, residents of Muzaffarabad expressed frustration at the level of power exerted by Islamabad and their economic situation, as well as a desire to form a state with Indian Kashmir, independent of both Pakistan and India.

Because of Pakistani Kashmir’s overwhelming Muslim majority, it has long been assumed that its population is content with rule from Islamabad. But that’s changing, says Mosharraf Zaidi, a newpaper columnist with The News, an English-language daily. “The natural inclination now is toward an autonomous Kashmir, as a response to the failed political process between India and Pakistan,” he says.

Many cite the failure of India and Pakistan to overcome their differences, and the resulting instability in Kashmir, as their reason for wanting independence.

Indeed, according to a recent poll conducted by London’s influential Chatham House think tank, some 44 percent of people (Pakistani Kashmiris) in Azad Jammu Kashmir (AJK) wish to see full independence. The vast majority of others want to see some type of independence, either more powers with in their state, or combined with India-controlled Kashmir.

Before Pakistan

AJK is the southern part of Pakistan-administered Kashmir. It fell under Pakistani control after the first Kashmir war broke out between India and Pakistan in 1947, shortly after both countries gained independence from Britain. It is bordered to the east by the Indian State of Jammu and Kashmir and to the north by Gilgit-Baltistan, an area which was until last year known as Federally Administered Northern Areas (FANA) and is also controlled by Pakistan but claimed by India.

The Indian and Pakistani parts of Kashmir are divided by a cease-fire line from the 1947 conflict. The Line of Control has since become a de facto border.

Unemployment is the most significant problem facing the population according to Pakistani Kashmiris. The majority of people in the area depend on forestry, livestock, and agriculture for a living, and 35 to 50 percent of its population of 4 million are currently unemployed according to government estimates.

“The government here is not sincere to its people, they have nothing to offer us, and there aren’t any opportunities,” says Muhammad Adil, a bus driver in Muzaffarabad. “We are like Pakistan in that they are our Muslim brothers, but we need our own government. Everyone knows that Kashmir was around long before Pakistan was created.”

Despite the fact that decades of violence rocked the region and has only recently become relatively calm, Mr. Adil, like many of those interviewed, believes that Kashmir can only be reunited through force. According to the survey, 37 percent of Pakistani Kashmiris believe militant violence will make a resolution to the dispute more likely, while 31 percent who believe it would make a resolution less likely.

Barrier to movement creates restlessness

“The LoC [Line of Control] is an almost complete barrier to movement,” writes the Chatham House's Robert Bradnock in his report.

Zeeshan Naqash, a computing student living in AJK, says he was impressed by the level of development he saw in Indian Kashmir when he visited family there in 2007, but feels that Pakistani Kashmir has more freedoms. “Over here you are free to write what you want, you are free to stay out late and there aren’t curfews, there isn’t a major Army presence.”

Still, he says, AJK has seen little economic benefit from being a part of Pakistan. “I want to see a free state separate from both India and Pakistan,” he says.

Others are not as fortunate as Mr. Naqash was by being able to cross the border.

Bilal Ahmed says he was forced to leave his studies at Srinagar College after coming under the radar of Indian authorities, who suspected him of having militant ties. He now teaches at a school run for migrants from Indian Kashmir. The government estimates there are about 35,000 of these migrants.

In the summer of 1993, Mr. Ahmed left India. The Indian military had tortured and killed a number of his friends, he says. He made a six-hour trek across snowy mountains, avoiding landmines to reach AJK. He has not seen his parents or sisters since, he says, and bus tickets to Srinigar are available only to those with “lofty connections.”

“I respect the people of Pakistan and of Azad Jammu Kashmir, but we Kashmiris are held hostage to the dispute between India and Pakistan. It’s a tragedy for the Kashmiri people and the whole world has turned their backs on us,” says Ahmed.

His personal experience aligns with the survey, which found that across the two parts of Kashmir, 8 percent of respondents claimed to have friends or family living on the other side of the ceasefire line, “but only 1 percent of the total population had visited in the last five years. Less than 5 percent knew anyone who had crossed the LoC in the last five years.”

Lack of faith in government

Compounding matters is a lack of faith in the AJK government. Only 34 percent of Azad Jammu Kashmiris believe their state elections held in 2006 have improved their chances for peace, according to the polling.

Infighting between politicians who appear to spend more time in Islamabad than in Kashmir adds to negative perception about the political class, says Saleem Parwana, president of the Muzafarabad Press Club.

“We have now had four different governments in four years,” he says, referring to the latest vote of no-confidence in the government of Muslim Conference leader Raja Farooq, which paved the way for Farooq’s rival [and former ally] Sardar Attique Ahmad Khan to be sworn in to office as Prime Minister of AJK for the second time since the 2006 elections.

“The AJK goverment can’t remedy the peoples’ problems. They are more engaged in breaking and making governments This doesn’t engage the ordinary people,” he says, adding that since the flooding hit the city, the population is struggling to cope without reliable electricity or fresh water supplies.

AJK’s top bureaucrat, chief of police, and finance secretary are all appointed on a rotational basis by Islamabad, ensuring the "state" has less authority than a province.
In search of fresh solutions

Dr. Bradnock writes “that the plebiscite options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute.”

But Mir Abdul Rasheed Abbasi, who was until late July was AJK’s minister for law and parliamentary affairs, says that ordinary people are better off in Azad Jammu Kashmir than in the Indian-controlled Jammu and Kashmir and should not hold out hope for independence.

Calling the results of the survey “exaggerated,” he says: “Even if the people want independence, who will bestow this upon them? Under what mechanism? The Security Council resolution has not been carried out for 62 years. It offers the only hope for a lasting and durable peace.”

Nearly all of those interviewed by the Monitor expressed solidarity for their Kashmiri brethren on the Indian side of the border, and said they hoped for a united Kashmir [either independent or under Pakistani control]. “If anyone asks me, I will always say I am a Kashmiri, not a Pakistani,” says Meher Gillani, who runs a petrol-station in Muzaffarabad city. “But we must be united, we are nothing without them,” he adds.

According to Basharat Peer, a Fellow at the Open Society Institute in New York and author of “A Curfewed Night,” a memoir of growing up during the Indian Kashmir insurgency of the 1990s, Kashmiri nationalism “has been strengthened even among the the diasporas in UK and elsewhere, after the Kashmiri rebellion against Indian in 1990.”

“Also the fact that [AJK] is “Azad” [Free] only in name and in reality controlled by Pakistan does add to a desire for independence,” he says.

 

[roach]

Someone should tell these poor Kashmiris the truth,, that Kashmir is a geopolitical football- that the lives and deaths of Kashmiris have become a part of the Great Game played out in distant capitals, and that there is too much at stake.

There's never going to be an independent Kashmiri nation- either the Indian, Pakistani or Chinese armies will always be there.

I feel bad for them-being fed BS Azadi hope by all and sundry.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakist

I feel bad for them-being fed BS Azadi hope by all and sundry.

keep feeling bad all you like....we can see on which side of the LoC there is total unrest and chaos --thanks to the actions of the occupational forces (aka the sissies).



according to the article, we see an interesting paradox. Azad Kashmiris have freedom of speech, freedom of expression and are not bound by intimidation by Pakistan Army and security forces.. the main issue is economic (unemployment issues, other indicators)

Those are similar issues encompassing entire country, not just Azad Kashmir. And they can be solved simply with right leadership and an improved security environment.

in hindustan occupied Kashmir -- economic conditions are not so bad, even though tourism industry has taken a hit.....but despite billions invested, Kashmiris are still ardently opposed to hindustan occupation and are still victims of intimidation, extra-judicial killings and other violence at the hand of the occupational police/security forces (aka the sissies)

 

[roach]

keep feeling bad all you like....we can see on which side of the LoC there is total unrest and chaos --thanks to the actions of the occupational forces (aka the sissies).



according to the article, we see an interesting paradox. Azad Kashmiris have freedom of speech, freedom of expression and are not bound by intimidation by Pakistan Army and security forces.. the main issue is economic (unemployment issues, other indicators)

Those are similar issues encompassing entire country, not just Azad Kashmir. And they can be solved simply with right leadership and an improved security environment.

in hindustan occupied Kashmir -- economic conditions are not so bad, even though tourism industry has taken a hit.....but despite billions invested, Kashmiris are still ardently opposed to hindustan occupation and are still victims of intimidation, extra-judicial killings and other violence at the hand of the occupational police/security forces (aka the sissies)

Well then, I wonder why your brave soldiers have not managed to wrest Kashmir away from the 'Sissies'. They should just roll in and take what they want!

Last we heard, the 'braves' across their border were retreating from Kargil with these 'sissies' shooting their a$$es off, and their leader running howling to POTUS.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

well, lets look at today instead of yester-decade. A lot has changed since then.

there's an ongoing intifada against india security forces (the sissies)

 

[SandsofTime]

Indians are envious of Pak for the first time?


BTW, one of my friends from undergrad is from Muzaffarabad. Never heard him about launching a separatist movement. Also, a cook at a place I lived in Isloo for an year, was also a Kashmiri. Never seen him flinging kitchen knives at anyone, but did cook good food One teacher of mine in Karachi was from Hunza (Gilgit Baltistan) and taught math not azaadi bhashans. Need I go on.

 

[roach]

Well, Ok. Let's look at today.

The biggest problem is security and livelihood. We in the rest of India take much for granted- We can live peacefully without being frisked and our houses searched. We have job opportunities, safety and security. The ordinary Kashmiri doesn't. How this came to be in a liberal, democratic nation is another story.
I am not one to resolve the GOI from blame, but it has been difficult governing a state like Kashmir, even without neighbors obsessed with extracting vengeance for past events.

I like your sentence

"Those are similar issues encompassing entire country, not just Azad Kashmir. And they can be solved simply with right leadership and an improved security environment" about your part of Kashmir, we need to do the same in J&K.

 

[Sonic_boom]

Can I give 1000 thanks to post no 5 by Karthic Sri ?

 

[su-47]

You mean Rob Brown, the actor??

Or is it Dan brown u are referring to??

I am referring to the author of the article.

 

[Areesh]

Some hospital staff and relatives of the injured by police firing also shouted "Go India, Go back!" at the delegates, who looked surprised by the hostile reception.

So much for the delegation.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

well a good first step would be to de-militarize the region, and allow press around the world to get Kashmiri perspective so we dont have to rely on newspapers and online propaganda

 

[greatsequence]

My village is on the border of pakistan-kashmir. We have relations on both sides. Although there are people who will talk about azadi but those wanting to be with pakistan are in overwhelming majority. In gilgit baltistan you will hardly find any one talking about azadi from pakistan.