Kashmir | News & Discussions.
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mjnaushad
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Now the ISI must have paid these boys to walk nude for 500 Rupees....And those around them must be ISI agents
---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 PM ----------
BTW i can start that here too.
---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 PM ----------
Same stupid offtopics ......Now if next time i start posted Indian Videos as PAK V INDIA i sure hope you wont mind.....
BTW i can start that here too.
deckingraj
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Though as per my Indian POV i have very different picture and reasons then yours....I am not saying any one of us is wrong here because i can bet we both have not been taugh the complete truth...Anyways putting myself into Pakistani shoes i have few doubts in your post....Hoping ego and national jingoism will not come in our way to have a meaningful debate
You are wrong in two ways...Let me highlight how...
- International Geo-Politics : From geo-politics POV India is much stonger then what it was a decade ago and Pakistan is weaker then what it was a decade ago. Cameroon recent statements in India is a proof for that...Economically India is much stronger then what is was a decade ago and Pakistan is in shambles with floods adding to the problems.....In short your diplomatic manouvers will not have any/little impact....
- Pakistan Internal Problems : Pakistan has been devasted by the Floods...Economy is not going good and international response has been luke warm.....Terrorism is effecting every corner of Pakistan as we speak, so this is not the right time to go on for diplomatic offensive against New Delhi....This obviously will not go well with New delhi but also with International Community who will question the priority of issues...I am sure Pakistan is higher priority then fruitless campaign about Kashmir, no????
Honestly if you talking about being fair then perhaps you want to ponder over some of these points coming from a person across the border
- India was at its weakest in 1991-1993. We were at eye to eye with Bankruptcy, hardly any geo-politic might ,Terrorirsm in Punjab and kashmir was at its peak, Babari Masjid demolition had rocked the country to its core, definition of terrorism was very different then what it is after 9/11...If in such a sensative time we did not let go Kashmir how on this earth any sensible man can think that now when we are economically strong, far more stable then what we were 2 decades ago, backed with geo-political and military might will stumble now????
- These so called stone throwers are hurting common Kashmiris more then what so called (as alleged) bad guys, no???....Valley is almost shut from quite some time...Just imagine the kind of economic chaos the common man would be who have to earn his bread on daily basis....The hit taken by Biz in Kashmir is going to effect only Kashmiri's and no one else....GOI will not like it but then Kashmir is not our source of income by any stretch of imagination..So who is going to suffer, may i know???
- Whenever there is insurgency issue there will be human rights violation....We have seen this in the past...Sri Lanka effectively got rid of insurgency but by what means we all know...PA is battling in Baloch and they are using all their might....Are we saying there are no human rights violations there???? Mind it i am not justifying human rights violations by IA...All i am saying is that one gives 2 hoots about Kashmiri's....Vested interests are all what matters, and this list includes all those people who are using the sensitive environment to ignite tempers in the valeey...so lets not about Fair and Not Being Fair...However at this stage IMHO pakistan will best serve Kashmir cause(for her own good) to stay out of it....By giving $25 million to Flood hit Pak GOI has taken a bold step...Lets not give hawks on both sides to spoil it...
You are wrong in two ways...Let me highlight how...
- International Geo-Politics : From geo-politics POV India is much stonger then what it was a decade ago and Pakistan is weaker then what it was a decade ago. Cameroon recent statements in India is a proof for that...Economically India is much stronger then what is was a decade ago and Pakistan is in shambles with floods adding to the problems.....In short your diplomatic manouvers will not have any/little impact....
- Pakistan Internal Problems : Pakistan has been devasted by the Floods...Economy is not going good and international response has been luke warm.....Terrorism is effecting every corner of Pakistan as we speak, so this is not the right time to go on for diplomatic offensive against New Delhi....This obviously will not go well with New delhi but also with International Community who will question the priority of issues...I am sure Pakistan is higher priority then fruitless campaign about Kashmir, no????
Exactly, when it is not going to make any difference then any diplomatic offense is useless, no??? What's the point of doing lip-service which can't do any good but only harm??? Pakistan has always said they morally support Kashmir so what extra you can achieve by this???
Already explained it above....You can't combine emotions with Diplomacy, this will be very dangerous and can back fire....Diplomacy is not about being Fair, diplomacy is about serving national interest....
Honestly if you talking about being fair then perhaps you want to ponder over some of these points coming from a person across the border
- India was at its weakest in 1991-1993. We were at eye to eye with Bankruptcy, hardly any geo-politic might ,Terrorirsm in Punjab and kashmir was at its peak, Babari Masjid demolition had rocked the country to its core, definition of terrorism was very different then what it is after 9/11...If in such a sensative time we did not let go Kashmir how on this earth any sensible man can think that now when we are economically strong, far more stable then what we were 2 decades ago, backed with geo-political and military might will stumble now????
- These so called stone throwers are hurting common Kashmiris more then what so called (as alleged) bad guys, no???....Valley is almost shut from quite some time...Just imagine the kind of economic chaos the common man would be who have to earn his bread on daily basis....The hit taken by Biz in Kashmir is going to effect only Kashmiri's and no one else....GOI will not like it but then Kashmir is not our source of income by any stretch of imagination..So who is going to suffer, may i know???
- Whenever there is insurgency issue there will be human rights violation....We have seen this in the past...Sri Lanka effectively got rid of insurgency but by what means we all know...PA is battling in Baloch and they are using all their might....Are we saying there are no human rights violations there???? Mind it i am not justifying human rights violations by IA...All i am saying is that one gives 2 hoots about Kashmiri's....Vested interests are all what matters, and this list includes all those people who are using the sensitive environment to ignite tempers in the valeey...so lets not about Fair and Not Being Fair...However at this stage IMHO pakistan will best serve Kashmir cause(for her own good) to stay out of it....By giving $25 million to Flood hit Pak GOI has taken a bold step...Lets not give hawks on both sides to spoil it...
SekrutYakhni
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We should do something about this issue.
AgNoStiC MuSliM
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The silence of the GoP on the Kashmir issue pretty much explains what stance it has taken.
Regardless of the propaganda and nonsense published in the Indian media about the 'ISI sponsoring stone pelters' the facts are that infiltration across the LoC remains at historic lows, as it has for almost a decade now since Musharraf's initiative to try a different tact of resolving the dispute with India, and Pakistan has made almost no attempt to easily exploit a very explosive situation in Kashmir. What little infiltration that occurs has to be accepted given the rugged terrain and the inability of any State to seal off such a demarcation line 100%.
Leave alone covert support for separatists, there has been no diplomatic offensive either, nor was there much of one in the past with the other massive protests in Kashmir.
Quite frankly that reflects Pakistan's intentions to continue engagement with India along the lines of the Musharraf initiative, of not using insurgency to push the issue. It is time now for the Indians, government, media and intelligentsia, to stop scapegoating Pakistan and come to the table to resolve the dispute in a trilateral format that includes the Kashmiris separatists.
The ball is in India's court on this issue.
Regardless of the propaganda and nonsense published in the Indian media about the 'ISI sponsoring stone pelters' the facts are that infiltration across the LoC remains at historic lows, as it has for almost a decade now since Musharraf's initiative to try a different tact of resolving the dispute with India, and Pakistan has made almost no attempt to easily exploit a very explosive situation in Kashmir. What little infiltration that occurs has to be accepted given the rugged terrain and the inability of any State to seal off such a demarcation line 100%.
Leave alone covert support for separatists, there has been no diplomatic offensive either, nor was there much of one in the past with the other massive protests in Kashmir.
Quite frankly that reflects Pakistan's intentions to continue engagement with India along the lines of the Musharraf initiative, of not using insurgency to push the issue. It is time now for the Indians, government, media and intelligentsia, to stop scapegoating Pakistan and come to the table to resolve the dispute in a trilateral format that includes the Kashmiris separatists.
The ball is in India's court on this issue.
GUNNER
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India Struggles For Response As Kashmir Violence Escalates
NEW DELHI, Sept 14, 2010 (AFP) - Three months since a summer of discontent began, New Delhi is groping for a response in Indian Kashmir, where 87 protesters have died in what many see as a new phase of a 60-year conflict.
A frustrated new generation of stone-throwing Kashmiris has become the focus of resistance to Indian rule, superceding the militants who made the region one of the most dangerous places on Earth in the 1990s.
Speaking to editors last week, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh admitted that the government was unsure of how to respond to an outpouring of anger which has echoes of past Palestinian intifadas.
The government was "groping for a response," he said candidly, according to the Times of India. "But there is no royal road to success. I can't pull a rabbit out of a hat."
Many before him have tried and failed, producing a deadlock that dates back to the partition of the subcontinent in 1947, when the Muslim-majority region was split between India and Pakistan.
It has caused two of the three wars between the rival, nuclear-armed nations and remains an enduring source of tension in South Asia.
Singh, who admits the young people there have "grievances" that need to be addressed, called his cabinet together Monday for a meeting to discuss measures to defuse the tension.
They decided against one widely mooted step -- partially withdrawing unpopular emergency laws that have covered the territory for the last 20 years -- and instead called an all-party meeting of political groups.
Professor Radha Kumar from the independent Delhi Policy Group said there was consternation at the highest level of government, but a lack of direction.
"There is a sense of 'how do we as a democracy deal with this?' That is part of the reason why we have seen such confusion and a sort of paralysis," she told AFP.
For two decades, an anti-Indian insurgency supported by Pakistan raged in Kashmir, claiming 47,000 lives and fuelling attacks in India, most notably a siege at the Indian parliament in 2001 that almost sparked a regional war.
But militancy has since fallen to its lowest level since 1990 and New Delhi estimates there are now merely 500 militants active in the region, a fraction of the thousands previously.
For the first time, more people have died at the hands of the security forces this year than in militant attacks.
The core protesters, mostly young men who use Facebook and YouTube to spread their message, have used stones to provoke the security forces, with many saying they are prepared to die for the cause.
"I think it's the most serious problem confronting New Delhi since the start of insurgency some 20 years ago," says Noor Ahmed Baba, a political science professor at Kashmir's main university.
"The protests are indigenous, mass based and widespread and there is no external element involved," he said.
In New Delhi, the government initially tried to paint the protesters as paid by Pakistan -- the external element -- but most ministers now accept a new narrative in which frustration has reached crisis point.
But what can be done?
Observers agree that police have a duty to protect public property, but many are critical of the use of live ammunition on crowds and the lack of training.
"The police and CRPF (a paramilitary force) have not been equipped with non-lethal weapons and this has caused a lot of unfortunate casualties," said B.G. Verghese, an associate of the Center for Policy Research think-tank.
But better crowd control and job-promoting economic packages -- another of which was proposed by the prime minister in August -- are seen as window dressing on a more profound problem by many in Kashmir.
"India has never treated the people of Kashmir as one among the equals and secondly New Delhi ignored their demand for autonomy," India's chief Muslim cleric Syed Ahmed Bukhari told AFP on Tuesday.
"The population does not want to go with Pakistan and they also cannot tolerate the state-sponsored repression of an entire population," he added.
But granting autonomy would encourage numerous other separatist causes in India and raise fears of the Kashmiri government using its new powers to move closer to Pakistan.
Politically, the ruling Congress party is hemmed in by the main right-wing Hindu opposition which sees any concession to Kashmiri autonomy as a betrayal of the nation.
As a first step, the government could partly repeal the emergency military laws in Kashmir and announce credible investigations into the deaths over the summer, many of which are thought to be the result of disproportionate police action.
Longer term, New Delhi will continue with its policy of seeking dialogue with local separatist political leaders, but opinions are so polarised now that common ground between the two sides has diminished.
"The new effort to have quiet talks (with separatists) and all-party talks is necessary," said Verghese. "Economic development is necessary too, but employment is not the only factor."
NEW DELHI, Sept 14, 2010 (AFP) - Three months since a summer of discontent began, New Delhi is groping for a response in Indian Kashmir, where 87 protesters have died in what many see as a new phase of a 60-year conflict.
A frustrated new generation of stone-throwing Kashmiris has become the focus of resistance to Indian rule, superceding the militants who made the region one of the most dangerous places on Earth in the 1990s.
Speaking to editors last week, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh admitted that the government was unsure of how to respond to an outpouring of anger which has echoes of past Palestinian intifadas.
The government was "groping for a response," he said candidly, according to the Times of India. "But there is no royal road to success. I can't pull a rabbit out of a hat."
Many before him have tried and failed, producing a deadlock that dates back to the partition of the subcontinent in 1947, when the Muslim-majority region was split between India and Pakistan.
It has caused two of the three wars between the rival, nuclear-armed nations and remains an enduring source of tension in South Asia.
Singh, who admits the young people there have "grievances" that need to be addressed, called his cabinet together Monday for a meeting to discuss measures to defuse the tension.
They decided against one widely mooted step -- partially withdrawing unpopular emergency laws that have covered the territory for the last 20 years -- and instead called an all-party meeting of political groups.
Professor Radha Kumar from the independent Delhi Policy Group said there was consternation at the highest level of government, but a lack of direction.
"There is a sense of 'how do we as a democracy deal with this?' That is part of the reason why we have seen such confusion and a sort of paralysis," she told AFP.
For two decades, an anti-Indian insurgency supported by Pakistan raged in Kashmir, claiming 47,000 lives and fuelling attacks in India, most notably a siege at the Indian parliament in 2001 that almost sparked a regional war.
But militancy has since fallen to its lowest level since 1990 and New Delhi estimates there are now merely 500 militants active in the region, a fraction of the thousands previously.
For the first time, more people have died at the hands of the security forces this year than in militant attacks.
The core protesters, mostly young men who use Facebook and YouTube to spread their message, have used stones to provoke the security forces, with many saying they are prepared to die for the cause.
"I think it's the most serious problem confronting New Delhi since the start of insurgency some 20 years ago," says Noor Ahmed Baba, a political science professor at Kashmir's main university.
"The protests are indigenous, mass based and widespread and there is no external element involved," he said.
In New Delhi, the government initially tried to paint the protesters as paid by Pakistan -- the external element -- but most ministers now accept a new narrative in which frustration has reached crisis point.
But what can be done?
Observers agree that police have a duty to protect public property, but many are critical of the use of live ammunition on crowds and the lack of training.
"The police and CRPF (a paramilitary force) have not been equipped with non-lethal weapons and this has caused a lot of unfortunate casualties," said B.G. Verghese, an associate of the Center for Policy Research think-tank.
But better crowd control and job-promoting economic packages -- another of which was proposed by the prime minister in August -- are seen as window dressing on a more profound problem by many in Kashmir.
"India has never treated the people of Kashmir as one among the equals and secondly New Delhi ignored their demand for autonomy," India's chief Muslim cleric Syed Ahmed Bukhari told AFP on Tuesday.
"The population does not want to go with Pakistan and they also cannot tolerate the state-sponsored repression of an entire population," he added.
But granting autonomy would encourage numerous other separatist causes in India and raise fears of the Kashmiri government using its new powers to move closer to Pakistan.
Politically, the ruling Congress party is hemmed in by the main right-wing Hindu opposition which sees any concession to Kashmiri autonomy as a betrayal of the nation.
As a first step, the government could partly repeal the emergency military laws in Kashmir and announce credible investigations into the deaths over the summer, many of which are thought to be the result of disproportionate police action.
Longer term, New Delhi will continue with its policy of seeking dialogue with local separatist political leaders, but opinions are so polarised now that common ground between the two sides has diminished.
"The new effort to have quiet talks (with separatists) and all-party talks is necessary," said Verghese. "Economic development is necessary too, but employment is not the only factor."
SekrutYakhni
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Where is the admin/mod? It is clearly an off topic post! Is it freedom of speech or freedom of stupidity?
If I were to compare the incidents, I could easily find numerous videos on both sides. However, Kashmir is a disputed territory and the outcomes of incidents are different there.
In conclusion, the mod squad should delete the video as it has no relevance whatsoever.
Take a look from other angle.
Indians consider Kashmir as their own territory, the video can be justified as it is our police on our soil and it is their police on their soil (Kashmir) But are not we missing something? International community regards Kashmir as a disputed territory, not one, two countries but several others. So, the killings are inhumane and the territory is disputed, does not matter which side you belong from.
Human are humans they do not have a specific barcode if living in disputed or non disputed territories. The only problem here is that every day People from Pakistan IP addresses are posting that video on Youtube with different heading with ''Kashmir'' in it. Unfortunately they can not even prove that they were Muslims or non Muslims (no taunt).
Let me be defensive here and say that no body knows the context behind those naked guys.
Three guys were paraded naked by Punjab police in 1992 in Chandigarh when caught in a hotel with prostitutes. They were picked up naked while performing the job, to the jeep and then to the chownki
.
mjnaushad
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So now you have access to youtube admin account so that you can see from which IP they are being uploaded.Human are humans they do not have a specific barcode if living in disputed or non disputed territories. The only problem here is that every day People from Pakistan IP addresses are posting that video on Youtube with different heading with ''Kashmir'' in it. Unfortunately they can not even prove that they were Muslims or non Muslims (no taunt).
Let me be defensive here and say that no body knows the context behind those naked guys.
Three guys were paraded naked by Punjab police in 1992 in Chandigarh when caught in a hotel with prostitutes. They were picked up naked while performing the job, to the jeep and then to the chownki
Oh..... now it has become disputed territory versus non disputed territory. Last time you were taking about human rights only.
There is nothing reveling that it has originated from Kashmir.
ps80
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Officially, baat kis se karein....ISI se, Kiyani sahab se, Zardari sahab se, or Gilani sahab se....which one would be more effective?
I can only wish my sincere good wishes to the Indian and Pakistani leaders....it's time for some action now, baat bahut ho chuki hai....
Good luck Mr. Qureshi and Mr. Krishna...
PM hopeful on Pak ties, wants Qureshi to visit
SekrutYakhni
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Show me the post where I was ONLY talking about human rights!
Post the link of the thread!
DGMO
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You're still missing the point. It has come out and said it stands with Kashmiri's, SMQ has come out with condemnation and uttered the resolution in accordance with UN resolutions etc etc.
And it can visit every capital of the OIC and raise what it likes at the UN, but that won't change diddly squat on the ground.
So in that respect, it's pointless. As has been touched on above, the ball is in India's court. Not only vis-a-vis Pakistan, but also in dealing with the Kashmiri's. At the moment they seem to be rabbits staring at headlights, without any idea or plan to deal or quell the unrest, let alone find a wider solution to the problems of the Valley (which they simply can't run away from in the long run).
AgNoStiC MuSliM
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"There is a sense of 'how do we as a democracy deal with this?'
That is pretty easy to answer. As a democratic State whose Governor General made final accession conditional to a plebiscite, as a State whose leadership promised the Kashmiris time and time again that they would be able to determine their future through a plebiscite, as a State that committed to a plebiscite in the UNSC to the international community and to the other party to the dispute, Pakistan, as a State that endorsed the idea of plebiscite as paramount in disputed accessions through its own occupation and annexation of Junagadh through plebiscite, India must implement the committed plebiscite in one form or another, resolving both the grievances of the Kashmiris and the dispute with Pakistan in one stroke.
True nations are not built upon forced occupation and annexation of peoples and their lands, true nations are built from various peoples coming together to willingly form a pact of nationhood. India's argument of holding on to Kashmir despite the wishes of its people and its violated commitments is the Colonialist and Nazi vision of a State.
That is pretty easy to answer. As a democratic State whose Governor General made final accession conditional to a plebiscite, as a State whose leadership promised the Kashmiris time and time again that they would be able to determine their future through a plebiscite, as a State that committed to a plebiscite in the UNSC to the international community and to the other party to the dispute, Pakistan, as a State that endorsed the idea of plebiscite as paramount in disputed accessions through its own occupation and annexation of Junagadh through plebiscite, India must implement the committed plebiscite in one form or another, resolving both the grievances of the Kashmiris and the dispute with Pakistan in one stroke.
True nations are not built upon forced occupation and annexation of peoples and their lands, true nations are built from various peoples coming together to willingly form a pact of nationhood. India's argument of holding on to Kashmir despite the wishes of its people and its violated commitments is the Colonialist and Nazi vision of a State.
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