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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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That wasn't the point he was crudely trying to make, he implied government supported group burnt down the school.

Do you agree with him?

Govt /NC using its influnce to alter/sabotage the nature of movement by indulging in selective arson . The protests overwhelmingly were against India and India used qurann burning incident to its advantage .
 
Did you even read the article?

The article has less to do with ISlam and more to do with the progress and peaceful resolution of KAshmir dispute. Just because his sound arguments do not mesh with your understanding does not mean his points are not valid.

At the end of the day, who has suffered more because of the dispute, the Kashmiri people or GoI? Who is suferring more right now? That is the bottom line he is addressing.

People think that India will leave Kashmir like the US left Vietnam, Russia left AFghanistan e.t.c but the situation is more akin to Chinese in Xinjiang where not only do the Chinese consider it strategic but the population comprises of less than 4% of the total Chinese population. The 4.5 million valley KAshmiris dont even comprise 1% of the Indian population and without the Indian electorate on your side you will not get indepedance constitutionally. Making the movement religious in colour and anti-Hindu alienates the electorate even further.

Before 1989 there was no army presence so its not like army was there all the time. You should read up on the tribal invasions of Baramulla and the rapes and looting by Tribals from present day FATA in 1948. If you want democratic rights from India you have to first accept that you are citizens of India. You can't ask for democratic rights when you are not willing to even give democracy a chance.

I don't expect you to convince otherwise, but its something to think about.

I know that in Hyderabad, which use to be the richest independant muslim state in the world pre-1947, after being amalgated with India, there was still sepratist sentiment during the 50s-60s. Infact, when people from UP or other parts of India would come to Hyderabad,the question would "aap Hindustan se aye hai?" or people from that area would be referred to as Hindustanis vs Hyderbadis.

But once peace was restored, the Hyderbadi muslim leaders decided to redefine and accept that the sucess of their community lies with India as long as India fully gurantees freedom of religion to practice and preach; economic oppurtunities were provided and a new generation of Hyderabid muslims came up to grab the oppurtunities, now they have no problem in calling themselves as Indians.

And it was the Hyderbadi MP Asasuddin Owaisi that raised the voice for Kashmiris in the parliament over the senseless violence in Kashmir.

I already mentioned in previous post that it is his political judgement so how did you guess that i thought it was anything related to Islam . Before tribals came RSS and maharaja had already killed around half a million jammu muslims . Tribals came at insistance of jammu muslims and since they were not regular soldiers some indiscipline was inevitable .
If something worked for hyderabad muslims doesn't neccesariy mean it works for Kashmiri Muslims too. Diffrent place, Diffrent climate , Diffrent political attitudes . However your rosy picture of hyderabad muslims isn't entirely correct . Muslims in Hyderabad predominantly live in Prosperous ghetto of Mehdipattanam or in old hyderabad .If things were such ghee shakar bw muslims and hindus there would have been no need for these Ghettos .I have been to hyderabad few times and have found upon interaction with muslims there the siege mentality (my personal opinion might be biased).However if hyderabads muslims feel safe and comfortable I feel happy for them but at the same time I think they should not advise us about our politics .
Im sure you don't vote for MIM ...Waheedudin Types don't . If anybody in your extended family is MIM worker then say my thanks to him for voting Owaisi Sahab .
 
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Kashmir is the oldest and most intractable disputes in the world. Forcible occupation of two-third Kashmir by Indian forces in 1947 against the wishes of Kashmiris impelled freedom fighters and Pak troops to get Kashmir freed from its stranglehold. When India saw that it was on the verge of losing the battle, it sought intervention of United Nations. United Nations Security Council (UNSC) Resolution of 21 April 1948 clearly states that the question of accession of Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) to India or Pakistan should be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite. Subsequent UNSC Resolutions reiterated the same stand. United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan (UNCIP) Resolutions of 3 August 1948 and 5 January 1949 reinforced UNSC Resolutions.

However, despite Nehru’s repeated pledges that right of self determination will be given to the people of Kashmir, Indian leaders have mulishly held on to their uncompromising stance that Kashmir is an integral part of India. In defiance of UN Resolutions, they sing this song ad nauseam ignoring the fact that Kashmir is an internationally recognized disputed territory and Kashmiris hate them and long to join Pakistan. They get highly disturbed when Pakistan or any other country reminds them of this hard reality. They are fuming ever since China has started treating Indian officials serving in disputed territory accordingly.

After 2008 manipulated state elections in J&K, Indian leaders had proudly claimed that majority of Kashmiris were least interested in violence and had accepted Kashmir as part of Indian Union. They declared that armed insurgency had for the most part been successfully crushed, cross border movement from Pakistan effectively blocked and Kashmir was no more an issue. Drums are beaten by Indian leaders after every stage-managed election held under shadow of guns and boycotted by majority that a popular mandate has been won from people of Kashmir.

Indians forget that neither military force had ever quelled popular movements nor military occupation justified. Who doesn’t know that Indian intelligence agencies have had a big role in shaping phony political parties and politicians having no roots in the masses, holding fraudulent elections and installing puppet regimes detested by the people?

No sooner these tall claims were made the whole Kashmir valley resounded with chants of ‘Azadi’, following Amarnath Shrine Board dispute in summer of 2008 which coalesced into a massive nonviolent uprising. Tens of thousands of unarmed protestors from all walks of life with placards in their hands defied gun totting security forces and marched through the streets of Srinagar protesting against state atrocities and injustices. Instead of redressing their grievances, Indian forces fired indiscriminately at the crowds. Volleys were fired not to scare and disperse the crowds but to kill innocent people since value of a Muslim Kashmiri is no better than a sewer ***. One of the reasons behind enacting Mumbai drama on 26/11 was to deflect the attention of the world from Kashmir and to exert pressure on Pakistan to stay out of it.

Another round of protest marches led by young people triggered in summer of 2009. This flare up coincided with unfolding of vicious propaganda war against Pakistan Army from August 2009 onwards. It was alleged that Pak Army had committed large-scale human rights violations in Swat. Stories about unearthing of mass graves, bodies found dumped along roadsides carrying marks of torture, corpses found with hands tied behind backs, and some corpses beheaded were splashed. Western media and RAW cultivated writers in Pakistan backed up the theme and series of articles appeared in local and international print media. Idea of this false projection was to cover up brutality of Indian forces against unarmed adolescent Kashmiris.

Making good use of their draconian laws they pickup slogan chanting young men on charges of arson, torture them in secret dens and later kill them in fake encounters. This gory practice of missing persons and fake encounters has been going on since triggering of armed resistance in late 1989. Since then, Indian forces have been killing Kashmiris like flies. Figure of missing persons run in thousands, while number of killed persons has overshot 100,000. Hardly any missing person has rejoined his family. Each fake encounter is presented as a clash with armed militants and those shooting the handcuffed prisoners are rewarded for bravery. Huge numbers of unmarked mass graves and marked graves stand witness to the atrocities of Indian security forces.

Besides killing every able bodied person or maiming them for life through torture, **** is being used as a weapon to break the will of the Kashmiris. Thousands of women and young girls have been raped. There have been numerous incidents of gang **** reported by Amnesty International (AI) and NGOs. AI has reported criminal activities of police and Indian security forces and has also reported that almost every house in Kashmir has been traumatized. They are living in a prison house and are being constantly punished on account of asking for right of self determination.

Their miseries are never ending since they can neither escape from the open prison nor their cries can be heard by the world. Biased US and Western media, think tanks and NGOs have remained mum over massive abuses of human rights occurring in Kashmir and in Gaza since perpetrators of crimes are non-Muslims and victims are Muslims. Instead of coming to the rescue of the bereaved, the US and western world are patronizing and encouraging India ruled by devilish Brahman rulers to continue with their reign of terror and cleanse the erstwhile paradise on earth now turned into hell from the presence of Muslims. India and Israel are two sides of the same coin and qualify to be declared terrorist states because of their callousness and barbarism but are treated as darlings by Christian world since Muslims are their common enemies.

Indian Police and paramilitary forces deal with the protesters under non-bailable Public Safety Act 1978 (PSA), which authorize them to arrest anyone on a flimsy charge, award two-year imprisonment through court and re-arrest the accused upon release. Even freedom of expression and right to protest peacefully is declared a crime. PSA is applied on minors as well. There were large numbers of cases where adults and minors were arrested and re-arrested several times under PSA. Apart from black law of PSA, Indian Army has license to kill without fear of accountability under Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA). Security forces have never bothered about human rights violations since their gruesome acts are shielded by their political government, psychological warfare, USA and western world.

Indian forces are not differentiating between armed freedom fighters and unarmed protesters resorting to nonviolent means to seek freedom. They are applying black laws on teenagers with equal impunity. Massive crackdowns have been unleashed; shoot at sight orders given and Kashmiri leaders’ house arrested to stifle protests. Continuing with its past practice of blaming Pakistan whenever Kashmiris raised their voice against India’s atrocities, India promptly blamed Pakistan that it was instigating the teenagers. It alleged that cross border movement had increased.

The new round of protests started in the wake of killing of a student on 11 June. Stone-pelters have introduced a new phenomenon of resistance against which Indian military has no solution other than resorting to old method of brutal force. Soldiers and police are so fond of firing indiscriminately that they automatically aim at chest and above not realizing that protesters are teenagers carrying stones in their fists. Their hearts does not soften even when they see small boys as young as 8-10 years writhing in pain after getting hit by bullets. It is worth noting that in all the protests since mid 2008, not a single Indian policeman or soldier got killed at the hands of protesters.

India is flabbergasted and doesn’t know how to justify its high-handed actions against youngsters and how to project them as terrorists. It can no more shed crocodile tears that it is victim of terrorism. Indian leaders have now started to whisper that stones are made in Pakistan and provided by ISI which are lethal and a threat to world security.

An increasing number of women moved by the extraordinary motivation of youngsters have joined them and are talking part in demonstrations enthusiastically. Hundreds of women and girls, some carrying sticks and stones, are seen regularly out in the streets chanting ‘we want freedom’, and ‘blood for blood’. Participation of women has added yet another dilemma for the police and paramilitary forces struggling to control protests.

Since 11 June 65 persons have been killed. Ignoring daily deaths of small boys aged between 8 and 17 years at the hands of Indian troops, Manmohan Singh tried to appease agitating Kashmiris by offering dialogue on autonomy and an economic package and rhetorically assuring them that there will be ‘zero tolerance’ for human rights violations. Mirwaiz rejected his offer and said that autonomy was not a solution to Kashmir issue. He said that no solution is acceptable to Kashmiris other than freedom.

He demanded revocation of AFSPA, PSA, Disturbed Areas Act (DAA), and withdrawal of armed forces. Anger of the younger generation in Kashmir can no longer be doused through hypocritical rhetoric or even by pep talk of elder Kashmiri leaders. They are determined to break the walls of prison house and breathe freely.

Pakistan is equally determined to find a just solution to this chronic dispute. No amount of RAW sponsored pressures in the form of target killings in Karachi and Balochistan, suicide attacks in Lahore and elsewhere and building of dams on rivers would dilute affections of Pakistanis for Kashmiris. India must understand that if it is really worried about terrorism and is sincerely aspiring for peace as is being preached by Aman ki Asha preachers, without resolution of Kashmir dispute this objective is next to impossible.

Asian Tribune-
 
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Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi has called for the solution of Kashmir issue as per the resolutions passed by the United Nations. In a statement issued by the foreign office in Islamabad Qureshi criticised use of blatant violence by Indian security forces in occupied Kashmir. Qureshi referred to the ongoing situation in held Jammu and Kashmir territory and said the violence by Indian security forces had resulted in the loss of scores of innocent lives since June. Qureshi's comments came a day after 17 people, including a policeman, were killed and over 70 injured in violence in the occupied territory.
 
I believe Pakistani ethnicity politicians here in the UK are seeking legal advice with regards to taking up the case in the Internatioanl courts of human rights and accuse India of War Crimes and ethnic cleansing for the past few decades.

I have raised my concerns with regards to actions by the Indian security services, whereby it cannot be justified or the minimum use of force which is reasonable to shoot protesters who are pelting stones.

Wait and see................hopefully legal advisers will be anouncing something soon huh!!!!!
 

Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi has called for the solution of Kashmir issue as per the resolutions passed by the United Nations. In a statement issued by the foreign office in Islamabad Qureshi criticised use of blatant violence by Indian security forces in occupied Kashmir. Qureshi referred to the ongoing situation in held Jammu and Kashmir territory and said the violence by Indian security forces had resulted in the loss of scores of innocent lives since June. Qureshi's comments came a day after 17 people, including a policeman, were killed and over 70 injured in violence in the occupied territory.

If Pakistan wants to help us they must raise this up in UN and OIC
 
If Pakistan wants to help us they must raise this up in UN and OIC
I'm afraid you're mislead if you think this will get you anywhere.

The UN will do nothing, because the P5 don't have a desire to get involved.

And what is the OIC? If they can't close ranks and be effective when it comes to Palestine then you can forget Kashmir. They're a pointless and powerless organisation which has no sway on what India does.
 
I'm afraid you're mislead if you think this will get you anywhere.

The UN will do nothing, because the P5 don't have a desire to get involved.

And what is the OIC? If they can't close ranks and be effective when it comes to Palestine then you can forget Kashmir. They're a pointless and powerless organisation which will have no sway on what India does.

Pakistan must try its best. Reading the posts from indian members in this forum and other forums shamelessly saying Kashmiris deserve to be killed and not a single indian showing any sympathy for Kashmiris except for Arundhati Roy (who was labelled as a traitor by the indian public for her support to Kashmiri people), imagine what will happen to the Kashmiri people and the future generations of Kashmiris.

Pakistan is involved. We are talking about a disputed territory between Pakistan and india. If Pakistan wont speak up for the Kashmiri people, then who will?
 
I'm afraid you're mislead if you think this will get you anywhere.

The UN will do nothing, because the P5 don't have a desire to get involved.

And what is the OIC? If they can't close ranks and be effective when it comes to Palestine then you can forget Kashmir. They're a pointless and powerless organisation which has no sway on what India does.
It does not matter whether that is effective or not . It will make international community and muslim countries aware of what is happening in Kashmir .These are important international forums and Pakistan bieng a soveriegn state has acess to them while our leadership does not have .
 
Pakistan must try its best. Reading the posts from indian members in this forum and other forums shamelessly saying Kashmiris deserve to be killed and not a single indian showing any sympathy for Kashmiris except for Arundhati Roy (who was labelled as a traitor by the indian public for her support to Kashmiri people), imagine what will happen to the Kashmiri people and the future generations of Kashmiris.

Pakistan is involved. We are talking about a disputed territory between Pakistan and india. If Pakistan wont speak up for the Kashmiri people, then who will?
Omar, Pakistan has been speaking up for Kashmiri's, and was doing so when things were even worse.

But the question you and everyone else needs to ask is: Has it helped find a solution to the problems? The answer is no.

This has gone beyond speaking up. It's now about solutions, but we're not in control of that. This is an issue on the Indian side, we're powerless to do anything.

It's up to India to show some sort of courage, do away with their foot-dragging and internal fractious positions to deal with the situation.

Until then, we're all spectators. When they say it's an internal matter, then it really is. The problem for them is that with so much blood spilt, and continuing to be spilt, the positions of the separatists and the common man are hardening. However, that is also true for the GoI. All we've seen over the past 2 months is a stalemate.

India is foolish if it thinks this will simply go away with no long-term damage. They're simply alienating another future generation of Kashmiri's, and need to put genie back in the bottle as soon as possible.

However, even Indian members will admit here that Congress is at a loss on how to deal with this situation.

You'd think that the day after 18 Kashmiri's are killed, that emergency meetings will be held around the clock to get to a solution. How strange then that they decide to reconvene a CCS meeting on Wednesday (tomorrow), and not today.

Their handling is not helping and exacerbating an already woeful situation.
 
Once again, boys and girls, it's US duplicity time, While occupation forces have killed more than a dozen young men, the American does not even mention this and hopes to cover up for the occupation forces and the kinds of ideas that have space in the US and in India:
From Dailytimes

US appeals for end to violence

NEW DELHI: US Ambassador to India Timothy Roemer has appealed for calm and an end to violence in Indian-held Kashmir and elsewhere, maintaining that the US government and society at large was abhorrent to the individual act of desecration of the holy Quran. He said according to news reports one misguided individual had desecrated the holy book by tearing its pages. “On behalf of everyone at the US Embassy in India, I condemn such acts as disrespectful, intolerant, divisive, and un-representative of American values. The deliberate destruction of any holy book is an abhorrent act,” he added. He said the act of this individual was not representative of America and American values, believing that these acts were well outside of the American mainstream. “Our commitment to religious tolerance and religious freedom goes back to the very beginning of our nation and will continue to be a guiding principle of our country well into the future,” he said. Roemer stressed that Islam had its rightful and equal place at the table in America along with all other religions and always will. Quoting US President Obama, the US ambassador in a statement said, “America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles – principles of justice and progress; tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.” One misguided American tearing pages from the holy Quran will not change this - today, tomorrow, or ever. iftikhar gilani
 
It does not matter whether that is effective or not . It will make international community and muslim countries aware of what is happening in Kashmir .These are important international forums and Pakistan bieng a soveriegn state has acess to them while our leadership does not have .
Well then it's pointless isn't it?

Try to understand that raising this at such international fora has been done to death by us. Then try to sit back and ask 'what did or has it achieved?'

What impact will it make? The US spoke up yesterday, sure it did. But that was in response to church burning. Was it to condemn the killing of civilians? No.

18 people have died on one day, probably the most killed in YEARS, but it stayed on the BBC News front page (a true litmus test of a huge story) for a few hours, and then gone.

Running around and asking countries to condemn 'Indian aggression' has been done before. It's no point looking for diplomatic condemnation when it will make little change to those suffering on the ground - the Kashmiri's.

If Pakistan wishes to use its positive offices, then perhaps it should speak with the APHC, using some backchannels.

But the spotlight falls back on India who will have nothing to do with Pakistan, and are refusing to budge on issues like AFSPA, they have Omar Abdullah looking to quit (he might as well), so we don't hold much sway.

We can condemn, ask others to condemn, but India is in a bind like it hasn't seen for many a year.
 
For those Indians who are still in denial that Kashmir is slipping away from their fingers:

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Pakistan must try its best. Reading the posts from indian members in this forum and other forums shamelessly saying Kashmiris deserve to be killed and not a single indian showing any sympathy for Kashmiris except for Arundhati Roy (who was labelled as a traitor by the indian public for her support to Kashmiri people), imagine what will happen to the Kashmiri people and the future generations of Kashmiris.

Pakistan is involved. We are talking about a disputed territory between Pakistan and india. If Pakistan wont speak up for the Kashmiri people, then who will?

You are full of lies. We have tremendous sympathy for the policeman who was killed by the protesters, we have sympathy for the users of the church that was destroyed, we have sympathy for any innocents who have died in the violence and we have sympathy for the innocent Kashmiri pundits who have been destroyed thanks to your policy of non state actors. We have no sympathy for anyone who wants to use violence while protesting, thats not protesting, thats rioting, and that applies to everyone, not just Kashmiris.
 
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