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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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There were a bunch of committments that Pakistan had to fulfil before the plebiscite. Havent seen any movement on them for last 62 years. So yeah, its a bogey of UNSC resolutions.
That has been discussed in the UNSC resolutions thread, especially in the last few pages. Head on over and take a gander. It was India that rejected the various UN commission plans on demilitarization, not Pakistan.

btw, when did UNSC last take cognizance on this resolution. Wasnt that in 1950s?
The UNSC resolutions remain valid till the dispute is resolved or new resolutions are passed.
Here's a thought. If the UNSC resolution is so sacrosanct, why doesnt Pakistan get a follow up done thru the UN. You know, get UN to hammer India for not following its resolution for last 62 years. Thats going to be tough, specially since 1965 happened in between. Once Pakistan tried to implement a military solution, bypassing the mediator and failed, trying to call for implementaiton of the original solution wont carry too much credibility. And thats pretty visible today.
Unfortunately its a hypocritical world, Indian lobbying and likely Russian intervention would prevent any such move. But the current resolutions are more than enough, what is needed is India fulfilling its commitment to them and the Kashmiris.
 
You don't have the capability. Its nothing but a wet dream. You have tried it with Kargi war and you see what happened to your NLI.

Nothing happened to the NLI - speculative death tolls from various figures looking to score political points do not pass for actual casualty figures.

Most credible reports place Pakistani casualties at a few hundred - given Indian forces were at a disadvantage trying to regain the heights Indian casualties would be many times higher given equal quality of training and motivation on both sides. You simply cannot overlook the basic constraints facing an offensive force trying to retake higher ground (and this ground was very high and very remote).
 
we dont care about UNSC
Right, that's why so many Indians wet their pants talking about becoming a permanent member of the UNSC and why the GoI is willing to postpone the issue of veto for several years in order to get into the UNSC.
 
Unfortunately its a hypocritical world, Indian lobbying and likely Russian intervention would prevent any such move. But the current resolutions are more than enough, what is needed is India fulfilling its commitment to them and the Kashmiris.

Good analysis. While you are at it i.e harping on redundant UN resolutions, why not extrapolate it further back into time to address the root cause of the conflict, which is invasion of the then independent state of Kashmir by Pakistani regulars and Pakistan sponsored "tribals" on flimsy grounds.

Wasn't there a prerequisite for Indian troop withdrawal? What was that again? Oh yeah, Pakistani troops & armed and sponsored "tribals" are to be withdrawn from Kashmir and then India will have to reduce its troops and THEN conduct a plebiscite.

Pakistan conveniently ignores that part and then you want to bring subsequent UN resolutions. When that is logically countered you go back to Junagadh and Hyderabad to support your intervention in Kashmir. And then you call India and its policies hypocritical. Excellent Mr. AM. You are just beating around the bush.

The "singularity", if you may, of the conflict is the invasion of Kashmir by Pakistan. Undo that and you got the mess cleared. You may then pine for the Kashmiri people's plight to your heart's content.

Yes indeed, it IS a hypocritical world!
 
UNSC resolutions are defunct when Pakistan and India signed Simla accord. Now its a bilateral issue. Even the most power country US couldn't do sh!t about this what will these bunch of culturally backward kuwaitis would do.

Nonsense, read the Simla Agreement:
(i) That the principles and purposes of the Charter of the United Nations shall govern the relations between the two countries.

(ii) That the two countries are resolved to settle their differences by peaceful means through bilateral negotiations or by any other peaceful means mutually agreed upon between them. Pending the final settlement of any of the problems between the two countries, neither side shall unilaterally alter the situation and both shall prevent the organisation, assistance or encouragement of any acts detrimental to the maintenance of peace and harmonious relations.

Nothing in Shimla overrides the UNSC resolutions or international arbitration - otherwise why are India and Pakistan still agreeing to approach the World Bank to resolve IWT issues? Or for that matter why does India keep whining to the international community about terrorism concerns it blames on Pakistan?
 
Good analysis. While you are at it i.e harping on redundant UN resolutions, why not extrapolate it further back into time to address the root cause of the conflict, which is invasion of the then independent state of Kashmir by Pakistani regulars and Pakistan sponsored "tribals" on flimsy grounds.

Wasn't there a prerequisite for Indian troop withdrawal? What was that again? Oh yeah, Pakistani troops & armed and sponsored "tribals" are to be withdrawn from Kashmir and then India will have to reduce its troops and THEN conduct a plebiscite.

Pakistan conveniently ignores that part and then you want to bring subsequent UN resolutions. When that is logically countered you go back to Junagadh and Hyderabad to support your intervention in Kashmir. And then you call India and its policies hypocritical. Excellent Mr. AM. You are just beating around the bush.

The "singularity", if you may, of the conflict is the invasion of Kashmir by Pakistan. Undo that and you got the mess cleared. You may then pine for the Kashmiri people's plight to your heart's content.

Yes indeed, it IS a hypocritical world!
I am not being hypocritical - Indian intervention in Junagadh predated the Pakistani intervention, and came months after the accession was signed by the Nawab of Junagadh. India protested this in various diplomatic cables to Pakistan (which I will reproduce some day when I have the time), and yet invaded the State after promoting instability in it.

So when Indians blame Pakistan for militarily intervening in J&K, they ignore their own sides identical actions in Junagadh. Hence it is very relevant, as is the point that Pakistan has not violated any preconditions of the UNSC Resolutions - it is India that rejected the UN proposals on demilitarization.
 
Delhi admits 12 killings were unprovoked

Srinagar, Aug 17: Union Home Minister Pallaniapan Chidambaram Tuesday admitted that at least a dozen incidents of deaths, during Police action against Kashmiri protesters, were unprovoked and these deaths would be investigated shortly.

Interacting with a delegation of Kashmiri students, Chidambaram said, “our forces have been maintain possible restraint but I admit at least a dozen killings might have happened due to unprovoked firing. We shall carry out proper investigation into such incidents.”
A forty-member student delegation from Kashmir called on the home minister in his North Block chamber Tuesday evening. The delegation was led by Vice Chancellor of Islamic University, Professor Sidiq Wahid. Sources said the meeting was organized by BJP MP Tarun Vijay who was beside Chidambaram while he spoke to the Kashmiri delegation. When contacted, Professor Wahid confirmed the meeting saying, ‘We tried to create an interface between youth and government of India.”
The home minister is learned to have shared with the visiting students his thoughts on possible solutions of Kashmir but has insisted that the solution must be found out within the ambit of Indian constitution. “Constitution of India is flexible enough to accommodate any solution that would bring peace and dignity to the people of Kashmir.”
According to the participants Chidambaram has assured that the number of armed forces would be reduced in civilian areas if the protests and amount of violence comes down. “I was behind the removal of ten thousand troops from Kashmir when the violence level dropped there. I promise I will ensure reduction of troops in civilian areas.”
 
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What else they can do other than recycling photos from Palestine, lebanon and other places. This is the same kind of brainwashing used by militant and terrorist organizations by showing unrelated pictures and instigating people. But then we have seen all these and we have teached humility. They will mend ways or perish one or the other day.

There are plenty of pictures of Indian Army atrocities in J&K and kashmiri suffering at the hands of India - the accidental use of one incorrect image does not change that.

Talk about clutching at straws.

Visit the sticky in this section on Indian atrocities to see some images if you really feel like it.
 
^^^
Peaceful being the operative term,

From the tribal invasion in 48, to operation Gibraltor in 65, support to militant in the 90s and Kargil war in 98, the peaceful solution was never given a chance. It takes time to build up to the peaceful solution and every violent act excludes the settlement of the problem.


In this case, three Kuwaiti MPs were present in the conference out of the entire 100+ Kuwaiti parliament. It is there right to speak and air their opinion, however from their statements they seem to not know the complex nature of the conflict and have a one-sided view. The government of Kuwait however probably will have a more nuanced approach. There is no doubt that many people want the settlement of this issue. Many Indians including the govt. wants a settlement of the issue. But this can be made only in an atmosphere of peace.

Case in point is the post 2003 era under Musharraf where all support to militants was stopped and peaceful era ushered in Indian side of Kashmir. As per Kasuri, a settlement was almost done and just had to be signed. However, the judicial crisis and later the Mumbai attacks scuttled that solution.

So its not like India is not trying to even solve the issue. All PM whether it be the BJP led govt. or Congress led govt. have tried to solve the issue inspite of several provocations in contrary to the peaceful settlement agreement. Even now, the official GoI position is, just convict the Mumbai attack planners and we will talk on all issues including Kashmir.
 
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I am not being hypocritical - Indian intervention in Junagadh predated the Pakistani intervention, and came months after the accession was signed by the Nawab of Junagadh. India protested this in various diplomatic cables to Pakistan (which I will reproduce some day when I have the time), and yet invaded the State after promoting instability in it.
I guess you haven't read some of my replies concerning that particular topic. Let me refresh that here. Junagadh and Hyderabad were Muslim ruled Hindu majority states. Agreed? Now the state of Pakistan was created on the pretext that Muslims and Hindus cannot stay peacefully in one country/land. And so a large number of Muslims migrated to the newly created state while a similar number of Hindus crossed over into India.
Now if Pakistan was created for Muslims, why in the world did Pakistan accept accession of a Hindu majority state. If you argue about secularity of then Pakistan, the whole concept for creating Pakistan falls flat. So, that means creation of a state for Muslims was only a ploy for power hungry leaders of the time?
IMHO, India was justified in interfering in Junagadh. Your argument for Junagadh doesn't carry weight. Either the concept of Pakistan for sub-continent's Muslims was a farce or Junagadh issue is irrelevant to Kashmir. Your choice.
So when Indians blame Pakistan for militarily intervening in J&K, they ignore their own sides identical actions in Junagadh. Hence it is very relevant, as is the point that Pakistan has not violated any preconditions of the UNSC Resolutions - it is India that rejected the UN proposals on demilitarization.
Like I said before, Junadagh is irrelevant to Kashmir issue. Pakistan has to withdraw its forces from all of Kashmir (which it will never do) for India and UN to decide how to go about implementing the plebiscite (which wont happen unless the former is done with).

So what exactly is Hypocrisy again?
 
FT.com / Comment / Opinion - Prosperity can buy peace in Kashmir

It has been a summer of death in Kashmir. In early June, a 17-year-old student, Tufail Ahmad Mattoo, was killed when a tear gas canister fired from close range by Indian security forces attempting crowd control hit him as he returned home from tutoring for medical exams. Last Sunday night, Fida Nabi, a 19-year-old high school student, was taken off life support after six days in hospital with a bullet in his brain.

Interspersed between these two tragedies, more than 50 other civilians have suffered similar fates – senseless deaths caused by overzealous security personnel operating on instructions from a government in New Delhi that seemed devoid, until recently, of any idea how to win back hearts and minds in Kashmir’s idyllic valley.

In the past, India blamed Pakistan-backed militants to excuse its security forces’ unruly behaviour in the Muslim-majority region that both states claim. But New Delhi cannot point the finger at Islamabad any more. Pakistan’s domestic disarray, political ineptitude and daily struggles against a resurgent Taliban, floods, economic strife – you name it – have all but eliminated its military, even moral, support for insurgency in Kashmir. Cross-border incursions into Indian-held Kashmir are at an all-time low.

The problem today is almost exclusively defined by indigenous Kashmiris who cannot find jobs, lack basic services and have no civilised way to air their grievances about poor governance, either at the local or federal level. That is why resolving Kashmir’s crisis must start by raising the economic fortunes of its people to such an extent that a political solution can be found through reasoned debate.

Manmohan Singh, India’s prime minister, took important steps in that direction last week when he announced intentions to accelerate job creation in Kashmir. By bringing in former central bankers, high-technology billionaires, and government trade and industry experts to advise him, Mr Singh showed a keen understanding of the political reality he faces. Men and women who have jobs do not have time to gather in the streets and throw stones so anti-riot police can disperse them with force, perpetuating a cycle of violence that seems to have no logical end.

Historically in Kashmir, peace was most possible when hawkish political and military leaders in Islamabad and New Delhi were able to see the mutual benefit in making peace without compromising security. Such was the case when Atal Behari Vajpayee, then India’s prime minister from the rightist Bharatiya Janata party, reached across Kashmir’s line of control in 2000 and accepted a ceasefire by Pakistani-backed militants. At that time, Chander D. Sahay, India’s intelligence chief for Kashmiri affairs and later its top spy, and I created a framework for resolving the dispute that sought to empower Kashmiris economically and to remove the terror from their daily lives by withdrawing Indian forces and Muslim militants in confidence-building stages. Our belief was that a prosperous Kashmir would give leaders in India and Pakistan the space to find a political solution.

A year later, Mr Vajpayee and Pakistan’s General Pervez Musharraf (who had sanctioned the militants’ 2000 offer of ceasing hostilities) nearly reached accord on a final framework for settling the dispute by agreeing a blueprint to create an autonomous region out of both Indian and Pakistani-held Kashmir. Such an accord would have buttressed economic stability with political unity, reuniting families and lowering tensions sufficiently for Indian security forces to go home. Pakistani army hawks would have been able to argue that Kashmiris had secured peace with their support – a win-win for all concerned. In secret negotiations in 2007, the idea of an autonomous Kashmir was again put on the table by Indian and Pakistani negotiators just before Gen Musharraf lost his grip on power.

Today, conditions are ripe for such a solution to be resurrected. Pakistan’s internal disarray makes the arguments against peace by its hawkish military leaders nearly irrelevant. The generals, to put it bluntly, are busy elsewhere putting out fires they started years ago. The country’s flamboyant president, Asif Ali Zardari, is a wheeler-dealer who gets along just fine with his neighbours to the east and is only too happy to replace militant camps with clothing factories.

Mr Singh should take advantage of this, for example by creating special economic zones where specific products that benefit both countries are allowed to trade freely. This would soften political resistance in Pakistan to any Indian-driven solution. Microfinance in Kashmir should also become a priority of the Indian government to make employment durable over the long term. Enlisting the support of wealthy Indians, as Mr Singh has, begins a public-private partnership that infuses government-backed enterprise with free-market innovation.

He should also consider contributions from civic-minded Pakistanis throughout the world who could help build up the Pakistani side of Kashmir. I will commit my own wealth in large amounts to this effort, and I know where to find other Pakistani-origin support to join hands with me.

Mr Singh’s recent statements indicate that he is finally prepared to use his personal political capital to end the violence. That is a good start – but only a start. He remains the best hope for a peaceful resolution. It is time for his government and people throughout the region to get behind him and heal Kashmir’s gaping wounds.


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Mansoor Ijaz (born in 1961) is a prominent businessman of Pakistani ancestry, a financier, and a media commentator on terrorism, mostly in relation to Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan.[1] He is the founder and chairman of Crescent Investment Management LLC, a New York investment partnership since 1990 that includes James Alan Abrahamson, former director of President Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative.
 
It works. Israel attacked the ship while in international waters. Kashmir is within the existing borders of India.

it is not within the boarder of india........it is a disputed region........I dont know how do you guys come up with such a stupid logics like "kuwait is a small country", "They need to give their women freedom".......I honestly think that we can have 1 billion+ stand out comedians........
 
its really hard to accept that slowly slowly the opinions regarding Kashmir is changing, few argue Oh just few MPs , but it always starts with a few ;)
 
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