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Kashmir | News & Discussions.

So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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Here you go.....

"A conscious policy of bringing about a change in the demographic composition of the area was initiated by Zia after the success of the Islamic Revolution in Iran in 1979 in order to counter the growing sectarian consciousness of the Shias and their demand for political and economic rights on par with the Sunnis. This change was sought to be brought about by encouraging and facilitating the migration of Sunnis from the other provinces and the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) and by re-settling Sunni ex-servicemen in the area. As a result, the Shias and the Ismailis, who constituted about 85 per cent of the population in 1948, today constitute only about 53 per cent of the population. The Sunnis form about 42 per cent and the remaining five per cent belong to other sects of Islam"

"In 1948, the sons of the soil (Ladakhis and Ladakhi-related ethnic groups of various hues) constituted about 80 per cent of the total population. Today, they constitute about 53 per cent. Pashtuns from the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) constitute about 24 per cent, Punjabis about six per cent, Mirpuris from the *** about three per cent, Pashtuns from the FATA about one per cent, Sindhis and Mohajirs from Sindh about one per cent and Balochs less than one per cent. The provincial and ethnic origin of the remaining 11 per cent is not known."

Now why dont you follow suit to your own advice and counter the claims made in the below link:

UNREST IN GILGIT-BALTISTAN


Also do read up on the Balwaristan National Front and Its Chairman Abdul Hamid Khan who is fighting for independence from Pakistan occupation of Gilgit-Baltistan states that 'The Pakistani administration has also been involved in efforts to alter the demographic profile of Pakistan-occupied Gilgit Baltistan, reducing the indigenous people to a minority"

"The Pakistani administration has also been involved in efforts to alter the demographic profile of Pakistan-occupied Gilgit Baltistan, reducing the indigenous people to a minority. In the Gilgit and Skardu areas, large tracts of land have been allotted to non-locals. Other outsiders have purchased substantial stretches of land since they are, by and large, economically better off than the locals. As of January 2001, the old population ratio of 1:4 (non-locals to locals) had been transformed to 3:4. The rapid induction of Punjabi and Pashtun outsiders has created a sense of acute insecurity among the locals. Balawaristan is also a deprived region in terms of education and infrastructure, and there is only a negligible presence of daily newspapers, radio or TV stations"

Asia Times

In your words "Either prove your contention or just slink away admitting you
can't"
Your turn.....
First the credibility of those assertions needs to be established - what are the sources behind the numbers claimed in those articles?

If I read it correctly, the first article is by B Raman, another Pakistan hater extraordinaire - hardly an independent and neutral source.
 
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MODS ARE sleeping...i guess...ar have you people stated enjoying ...people disrespecting wome soldiers....speaks loads about Pakistani menatlity....

There is no disrespect going on against the Indian Army, no abuses have been launched nor their fighting ability has been challenged.

In my view, best option would be to find the main source of the article, Christina Plamer is the lady who has written it, check it out if any other source has quoted her. 2ndly, any rebuttal done by any Indian Organization or any other authentic source to be foundd so that this topic comes to a close.

This topic is not new just to the Indian Army, in past also we have seen many other armies alleged or done such acts.

I do hope myself, IA won't be doing such a thing, as it gives a bad name to such a traditionally reputed army, but the recent allegations of sex scandal in Congo during UN mission & hundreds of cases of rape in Kashmir does gives a credibility to it.
 
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First the credibility of those assertions needs to be established - what are the sources behind the numbers claimed in those articles?

If I read it correctly, the first article is by B Raman, another Pakistan hater extraordinaire - hardly an independent and neutral source.

AM you're quite predictable......

Conviniently......you have chosen to ignore the report by Asia Times Online, a highly respectable and neutral source of information on Asian matters......

Or is that too biased for you as well?? Maybe its a propoganda "pro-India" or RAW sponsored news source.....

Since you require more credible sources, how about the below UN Refugee Agency Report:

"The appropriation of land in the Northern Areas by non-Kashmiri migrants from elsewhere in Pakistan, with the tacit encouragement of the federal government and army, has led to dwindling economic opportunities for the local population and an increase in sectarian tension between the majority Shia Muslims and a growing number of Sunnis. Ethnic violence first erupted in 1988, with riots in Gilgit that killed at least 150 people, and it continues to be a concern. According to the International Crisis Group (ICG), between June 2004 and October 2005 as many as 100 people died in sectarian violence that broke out over a government decision to introduce a new educational curriculum. The situation improved somewhat in subsequent years after a group of religious leaders drew up a peace agreement and the authorities cracked down on extremist groups. Sporadic attacks continued to occur, however, and the ICG noted a recent escalation of religious rhetoric and a growing amount of sophisticated weaponry pouring into the area."


"As detailed by Human Rights Watch (HRW) in a 2006 report on the region, individuals and political parties who do not support Kashmir's accession to Pakistan are barred from participating in the political process, standing for election, taking a job with any government institution, or accessing educational institutions[/B][/B]. At least 60 proindependence candidates who belonged to the JKLF, the APNA, and smaller political parties were barred from participating in the July 2006 Azad Kashmir legislative assembly elections. Overall, HRW noted that the election process was flawed and "greeted with widespread charges of poll rigging by opposition political parties and independent analysts." However, unlike the 2001 elections, the polls featured few instances of physical violence and harassment – aside from threats – against candidates or their supporters, possibly because of the greater international presence in the wake of the earthquake. In general, antiaccession parties and individuals are subject to surveillance, harassment, and sometimes imprisonment by Pakistani intelligence and security services"

"The Pakistani government uses the constitution and other laws to curb freedom of speech on a variety of subjects, including the status of Kashmir and incidents of sectarian violence. In recent years, authorities have banned several local newspapers from publishing and have detained or otherwise harassed Kashmiri journalists. In March 2007, the government suspended its advertisements in publications by the Dawn English-language media group after it reported on a possible resurgence of official support for militants in Kashmir. In April 2007, Dawn reported that the editor and publisher of the banned monthly Kargil International magazine were indicted on sedition and defamation charges for publishing a proindependence article in 2004. In addition to pressure and threats from the authorities, journalists have been known to face harassment and attacks from nonstate actors, though no such incidents were reported in 2007. During the state of emergency imposed on the rest of Pakistan in November 2007, cable operators in Kashmir were instructed to suspend broadcasts of most national and international news channels."

"Pakistan is an Islamic republic, and there are numerous restrictions on religious freedom. Religious minorities also face unofficial economic and societal discrimination and are occasionally subject to violent attack. Shia Muslims, who form the majority of the population in the Northern Areas, include a large number of Ismailis, a group that follows the Aga Khan. Sectarian strife between Shiites and the increasing number of Sunni Muslims (many of whom are migrants from elsewhere in Pakistan) first became a concern in 1988 and continues to be a problem. In 2005, several waves of sectarian violence killed almost 100 people and led to a month-long curfew. Sporadic attacks continued to take place during 2006, including the destruction by fire of an Ismaili place of worship, but no violent incidents were reported in 2007."

"The constitution of Azad Kashmir forbids individuals and political parties from taking part in activities that are prejudicial to the ideology of the state's accession to Pakistan."

"According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP), Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) operates throughout Azad Kashmir and the Northern Areas and engages in extensive surveillance (particularly of proindependence groups and the press), as well as arbitrary arrests and detentions. In some instances, those detained by the ISI, the police, or the security forces are tortured, and several cases of death in custody have been reported. Impunity for acts of torture and other mistreatment of civilians by the military and intelligence services remains the norm. The territory also continues to be governed by the colonial-era Frontier Crimes Regulations, under which residents are required to report to local police stations once a month."

UNHCR | Refworld | Freedom in the World 2008 - Kashmir [Pakistan]

I have bolded the parts that are applicable to your query.....

I also wanted to highlight some of the other "wonderful" rights that the "azad" people of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir enjoy......

Do I need to go any further?......
Let me guess.....Its still not credible......
 
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yeh toh achi baat hain na? agar poora army bhi aids se suffer kare toh bhi kam hain india ke liye:cool:
:argh::argh:
Actually Indian army is trying to show that prostitues of indian origin are enough to fight the enemies. At least they didint tried eunuchs.

Now I think the enemy army or freedom fighters have to fight prostitues first before facing Indian army.

Is it not a disgrace for the other side. Indians should not do it. We should respect all armies and fighters.
:rofl::rofl:
 
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:argh::argh:
Actually Indian army is trying to show that prostitues of indian origin are enough to fight the enemies. At least they didint tried eunuchs.

Now I think the enemy army or freedom fighters have to fight prostitues first before facing Indian army.

Is it not a disgrace for the other side. Indians should not do it. We should respect all armies and fighters.
:rofl::rofl:

hahaha...... very funny:lol::lol::lol:
it also shows that even prostitutes are better than Indian soldier!
:cheesy:
 
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hahaha...... very funny:lol::lol::lol:
it also shows that even prostitutes are better than Indian soldier!
:cheesy:

Yes Indian prostitutes are better then Indian soldiers in prostitution. Actually Indian army fights only for India and prostitutes can go with anyone. So we thought of deploying prostitutes to equalize the stature........... Just kidding....

:rofl::rofl:
 
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Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

NEW DELHI: Tajikistan-bound flights from India may soon have a stopover at Srinagar to ease the passage of Kashmiri pilgrims travelling to Tajik capital Dushanbe to visit the shrine of Mir Syed Ali Hamadani, the poet who brought Islam to Kashmir in the 14th century.

India and Tajikistan agreed to establish direct air links during Indian President Pratibha Devisingh Patil’s visit to Tajikistan. Officials said that since a large number of Kashmiri pilgrims wanted to visit Hamadani’s shrine, an air link was currently under discussion. The shrine is located in Kulyab in Khatlan region, 400 kilometres from Dushanbe. The officials said a separate air link could also be considered between Srinagar and Kulyab.

During her visit, President Patil paid her respects at Hamadani’s shrine. Her visit to the tomb was the first by any Indian leader. Parliamentarian Ghulam Hassan Khan from Kashmir’s Ladakh region accompanied her. At the site, Patil said: “I feel privileged to be visiting the tomb of Syed Hamadani in Kulyab.
 
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This article also tells about how Islam spread to Kashmir through Tajikistan

The Hindu : News / National : Pratibha’s visit to Hamadani mausoleum focuses on Kashmiri link to Tajikistan

The entire Kulyab countryside seemed to have gathered on the roadside as President Pratibha Patil arrived here on Tuesday to pay her respects at the mausoleum of Mir Sayyid Ali Hamadani — the Iranian Sufi saint credited with propagation and spread of Islam in the Kashmir Valley.

Togged out in colourful local costumes — flowing robes, intricately embroidered head dresses and multiple plaits — thousands of schoolchildren and young girls waved and danced as the Presidential cavalcade wound its way from the airport to the shrine.

The throng was impressive by any yardstick, and more so given that Ms. Patil’s visit coincided with the holy fasting month of Ramadan. Like the rest of the Muslim population in Tajikistan, most of Kylab’s residents too were on Roza. Indeed, many among the waiting children had endured long hours in the sun without food or water, but few could have guessed this fact seeing their broad smiles, and cheerful shouts of “shalom.”

The presiding priest at the Pir’s Mausoleum recited the Fatiha, following which Ms. Patil presented a chadar of exquisite beauty, specially made to order and flown all the way from Delhi.

The President’s visit to the mausoleum is the first by an Indian dignitary, and the Indian side said that it had been drawn up to emphasise the close civilisational ties between the Tajiks and Indians, especially Kashmiris.

Sayyid Hamadani was born in Hamadan in Iran in 1314 but moved to Kashmir with 700 followers to escape persecution at the hands of Timur. In Kashmir, Hamadani and his followers set up a large number of mosques, and, according to author Sadia Dehlvi, they hugely influenced the “religious, social, economic and cultural aspects of Kashmiri society.”

Some of Hamadani’s teachings are considered controversial because of the distinction he made between Muslims and non-Muslims. Yet as Ms. Dehlvi points out, he also wrote that a Muslim ruler, being the shadow of God, should render equitable justice and beneficence to both believers and non-believers.

Even today thousands congregate at the Shah-e-Hamdan mosque in Srinagar to commemorate the saint’s death anniversary. Also known as the Khanqah-e-Muala, the mosque, which stands on the banks of river Jhelum, was built by Sultan Sikander.
Deeply revered

In her speech, the President brought out the Pir’s Kashmir connection saying, “I feel privileged to be visiting the tomb of Sayyid Hamadani. He is deeply revered in my country, particularly in Jammu and Kashmir. He is a symbol of enlightenment and knowledge and has contributed greatly in shaping the religious character of Kashmiri society. Hamadani is one of the abiding links between India and Tajikistan.”

823460ee2f9c307ab1f7539af1926784.jpg

President Pratibha Patil with Tajik Prime Minister Akil Akilov and other officials offering a chadar at Syed Ali Hamadani’s mausoleum at Kulyab
 
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IHK court quashes PSA against Gilani

SRINAGAR (IHK): In occupied Kashmir, the High Court has quashed the draconian Public Safety Act imposed against ailing senior Kashmiri Hurriyet leader Syed Ali Gilani and ordered his immediate release, reports KMS.

After hearing the arguments by the petitioner, President Bar Association, advocate Mian Abdul Qayoom, Justice JP Singh of the High Court found as inadequate the evidences provided by the authorities for making any person apt for the PSA and subsequently quashed the Act against Syed Ali Gilani, contemporarily languishing in forest hut turned sub-jail at Chesmashahi in Srinagar.

Syed Ali Giani was arrested on June 7 during public agitation against the rape and murder of teenaged girl Asiya (17) and her sister-in-law Nelofer (22) at Shopian.

The acting Chairman of Jammu and Kashmir Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, Saifullah in a press statement while condemning the continued detention of Syed Ali Gilani said that authorities are busy to martyr ailing Gilani by suffocating him at Cheshma Shahi sub jail.

Meanwhile, the Jammu and Kashmir Muslim League spokesman in a statement has condemned the continued detention of the Leagues leader, Massrat Aalam Butt from past one year under draconian Public Safety Act (PSA).
 
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All posts related to the demographics related question moved here - please continue that discussion on this thread.
 
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AM you're quite predictable......

Conviniently......you have chosen to ignore the report by Asia Times Online, a highly respectable and neutral source of information on Asian matters......
I did not ignore it - the first part of my lasts posts, asking for the sources that were used to arrive at the numbers quoted in both articles, referred to both articles. What did the author in the Asia Times article base his stats on?
Or is that too biased for you as well?? Maybe its a propoganda "pro-India" or RAW sponsored news source.....
Well the B Raman piece definitely did qualify as from a source that could be branded 'propagandist, RAW sponsored, and pro-India', and I assume we have no disagreement over discrediting it, unless B Raman does have credible sources backing his assertions.

On the Asia Times piece, see above.
Since you require more credible sources, how about the below UN Refugee Agency Report:

"The appropriation of land in the Northern Areas by non-Kashmiri migrants from elsewhere in Pakistan, with the tacit encouragement of the federal government and army, has led to dwindling economic opportunities for the local population and an increase in sectarian tension between the majority Shia Muslims and a growing number of Sunnis. Ethnic violence first erupted in 1988, with riots in Gilgit that killed at least 150 people, and it continues to be a concern. According to the International Crisis Group (ICG), between June 2004 and October 2005 as many as 100 people died in sectarian violence that broke out over a government decision to introduce a new educational curriculum. The situation improved somewhat in subsequent years after a group of religious leaders drew up a peace agreement and the authorities cracked down on extremist groups. Sporadic attacks continued to occur, however, and the ICG noted a recent escalation of religious rhetoric and a growing amount of sophisticated weaponry pouring into the area."
Valid source and reasonable concerns raised - however, that there has been some migration into Gilgit-Baltistan is not contested, what is contested is that the scale of such migration has been large enough to significantly affect the demographic balance. The UN may have stats indicating the scale of settlement, but they are not mentioned in this article. What is mentioned is that a few riots occurred and people died - that can happen with a few hundred immigrants in an area relatively heavily populated by locals.

So good information, but so far not enough to support your argument that the demographic balance has been altered to the point where G-B should be called 'Northern Punjab' or something.

"As detailed by Human Rights Watch (HRW) in a 2006 report on the region, individuals and political parties who do not support Kashmir's accession to Pakistan are barred from participating in the political process, standing for election, taking a job with any government institution, or accessing educational institutions[/B][/B]. At least 60 proindependence candidates who belonged to the JKLF, the APNA, and smaller political parties were barred from participating in the July 2006 Azad Kashmir legislative assembly elections. Overall, HRW noted that the election process was flawed and "greeted with widespread charges of poll rigging by opposition political parties and independent analysts." However, unlike the 2001 elections, the polls featured few instances of physical violence and harassment – aside from threats – against candidates or their supporters, possibly because of the greater international presence in the wake of the earthquake. In general, antiaccession parties and individuals are subject to surveillance, harassment, and sometimes imprisonment by Pakistani intelligence and security services"

"The Pakistani government uses the constitution and other laws to curb freedom of speech on a variety of subjects, including the status of Kashmir and incidents of sectarian violence. In recent years, authorities have banned several local newspapers from publishing and have detained or otherwise harassed Kashmiri journalists. In March 2007, the government suspended its advertisements in publications by the Dawn English-language media group after it reported on a possible resurgence of official support for militants in Kashmir. In April 2007, Dawn reported that the editor and publisher of the banned monthly Kargil International magazine were indicted on sedition and defamation charges for publishing a proindependence article in 2004. In addition to pressure and threats from the authorities, journalists have been known to face harassment and attacks from nonstate actors, though no such incidents were reported in 2007. During the state of emergency imposed on the rest of Pakistan in November 2007, cable operators in Kashmir were instructed to suspend broadcasts of most national and international news channels."

"Pakistan is an Islamic republic, and there are numerous restrictions on religious freedom. Religious minorities also face unofficial economic and societal discrimination and are occasionally subject to violent attack. Shia Muslims, who form the majority of the population in the Northern Areas, include a large number of Ismailis, a group that follows the Aga Khan. Sectarian strife between Shiites and the increasing number of Sunni Muslims (many of whom are migrants from elsewhere in Pakistan) first became a concern in 1988 and continues to be a problem. In 2005, several waves of sectarian violence killed almost 100 people and led to a month-long curfew. Sporadic attacks continued to take place during 2006, including the destruction by fire of an Ismaili place of worship, but no violent incidents were reported in 2007."

"The constitution of Azad Kashmir forbids individuals and political parties from taking part in activities that are prejudicial to the ideology of the state's accession to Pakistan."

"According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP), Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) operates throughout Azad Kashmir and the Northern Areas and engages in extensive surveillance (particularly of proindependence groups and the press), as well as arbitrary arrests and detentions. In some instances, those detained by the ISI, the police, or the security forces are tortured, and several cases of death in custody have been reported. Impunity for acts of torture and other mistreatment of civilians by the military and intelligence services remains the norm. The territory also continues to be governed by the colonial-era Frontier Crimes Regulations, under which residents are required to report to local police stations once a month."

UNHCR | Refworld | Freedom in the World 2008 - Kashmir [Pakistan]
This is unrelated to the topic but a couple of points there - the 'rigged elections' being referred to were allegations that applied to all of Pakistan, and have in fact applied to all of Pakistan in all but two or three elections in its history.

On the electoral front, with this latest round of 'attempting democracy', the true test of whether election fraud is a result of some malicious intent towards Kashmiris/G-B's alone, or symptomatic of a malaise in the Pakistani ruling class in general, will be better analyzed when the 2013 elections are held. If they are widely regarded as 'free and fair', then there should be no reason for the AK &G-B elections to not be held in such a manner as well.

The same pretty much applies across Pakistan in terms of the party in power using the security forces harras opponents, so again, not anything isolated to AK, but symptomatic of a larger problem in Pakistan of misuse of authority. Also, Pakistan's official position remains that endorsed by the UNSC resolutions on Kashmir, which call for the freedom of choice for Kashmiris to choose between India and Pakistan, and do not allow for a third option of independence.
 
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India and Pakistan have fought two wars over Kashmir, which both claim in full but rule in part. Indian Kashmir has been hit by a 20-year separatist movement in which more than 47,000 people have been killed.

An attack on the Indian parliament in 2001, Pakistan-based so called Kashmiri terrorists, brought the countries to the brink of another full-blown conflict, at a time when both had acquired and were testing nuclear weapons.

Mumbai attacks in November that killed 179 people were also carried out by a so called Pakistani terrorist group fighting Indian rule in Kashmir.

But the question remains why Pakistan is so much interested in Kashmir??:what:

a) Only because Kashmir is a Muslim majority state? :disagree:

b) Because of geographical location?:disagree:

c) Because of natural resources?:agree:

May be yes. All major rivers flowing to Pakistan are coming from Kashmir and someday that water flow stops and Pakistan will turn into deserts.
Look at the map.
4bb01ced3b6fca34c1b03ef4811ce8ba.jpg


Love to hear other views in civil manner.A healthy debate will be appreciated.
Thanks
 
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Stop this BS. Kashmir belongs to Kashmiris and thats why Pakistan wants what Kashmiris want.

And on the other hand attack on Indian parliament has already been exposed by your own people it wasnt any one from outside.

Afzal guru is still awaiting the decision of the court
 
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There are at least a dozen threads about Kashmir.
Almost every thread about any issue seems to end up being about Kashmir.
Are you just bored, or merely want to enjoy another flame fest?

May I suggest using the Search function on this forum?
 
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Maybe we should ask why does inda wants to keep occupying kashmir.....geographical location,natural resources?

You seem to forget that if india tried to stop the water we would attack and its not that hard for us to carry out precision strikes to unblock the water.
 
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