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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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We you alive during the human rights respect by UK meted out to the IRA?


Nope was not alive when the UK goverement was as you said melting out the IRA. But the key difference is my friend at least we have solved the issue, the same can't be said about your self.

Queen pardoned IRA fugitive - Local & National, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

IRA fugitives will be free to return home under amnesty scheme | UK news | The Guardian

Mountbatten's IRA killer freed under peace deal - News - The Independent

Do you see we have no problem with the IRA, because we realised that using force would not solve anything, so we used diplomacy. howver at least we did not rape or kill people by making them dissappear, as it is seen in India.

Mountbatten's IRA killer freed under peace deal - News - The Independent

You currently have the problem in your backyard, not the UK goverment......it takes a lot to handle when you find out that your goverement is a killing regime.

Mountbatten's IRA killer freed under peace deal - News - The Independent

How long did your IRA problem last??
Also since you are of Pakistani origin, there are a bunch of problems in Pakistan that are as old as Kashmir.. Still going on..

So chill.. This will get solved.. If not now, in a few years.. Do you see how no one (even in the Muslim world) now makes the noises they used to till a few years back on such incidents. Not even Pakistan state...

Try as hard as you can to sensationalize this.. wont work
 
actually, i think pakistan is sufficiently disordered internally to not be trusted on anything.

a free kashmir would really be just a start for the public there. the dreams for 'union' with kashmir will take flight after that. attempts to bring puppet governments into power and what not. non state ak-47 and rocket launcher brigades complicating the scene further.

on balance, making kashmir independent won't be worth it either. chaos will still ensue.
 
You see when you start questing the existance of Pakistan then it's a totally different story - Every Leftist, Righwing, or Centrist will hate you if you do that.I know it's kinda shameful to live in such a large country which is kept hostage by a country 10 times smaller.I would too.

And how is India being kept a hostage by Pakistan.. Last I checked, Pakistan has more terror related deaths on a daily basis, worse economy, worse image in the world politics...So really dont understand the shame concept you are talkin of
 
I honestly think col purohit should be tried prosecuted and punished accordingly. And he never came to Pakistan. but that is only reactionary to islamic terror sent by pak. there are some hindu groups in india who have had enuf and now want to retaliate against you guys. for how long will the indians have to suffer Pak.
ALSO a very important point is, Col Purohit was uncovered by investigation done by Indian agencies. But Pak terror since it is state sponsored, never comes to light and in spite of all proofs by india.

See you guys still defend Kasab. This is terrible and disheartening. Also muslim terror is a menace the world over from NY, Lon, Glasgow to holland. and all of them come from pak.

What im saying is even if kashmir is solved you guys will still keep pouring terror into india . period. and of course all the terrorists in kashmir are not kashmiris but are punjabis afghan and i dont know what other breed.

:blah::blah: as for hindu terrorists please let's not start with BABRI MASJID or OPERATION BLUE STAR!! has jagdish tytler,advani,bal thackray or babu bajrangi been tried??? so stop this drama of hindus want to retaliate against us!

as for parhoit in jail well hafeez saeed was also in jail!


AS FOR KASHMIR FIRST SOLVE KASHMIR and THEN BLAME PAKISTAN WILL "STILL EXPORT TERROR RANT" until you solve it don't ASSUME things which aren't there!!
 
Were you alive when your nation went out to rape Iraq looking for WMDs?

Yes I was alive when the UK goverment went out to Iraq...and I was against it......however at least our goverment allowed protesters to voice there opinion.......shame the same can't be said about India.....what was 45 people dead...tsk.

And how have we raped Iraq...in actual fact we took out a dictator who was murdering Iraqi's in his 30 year rule.

US recruiting Indian ex-soldiers for Iraq

oh look at this looks like the American's have hired ex Indian soilders, so does that make your army a rapist, as some of its soilders have gone into Iraq.

How do you sleep with the knowledge of so much death and destruction caused due to your choices?

How do you sleep knowing that you are killing your own people......at least my goveremnt is fighting for a good cause....giving countries a better life.

BBC NEWS | UK | UK combat operations end in Iraq

Your question in the British Army in killing....seem's to have no leg to stand on, as we have abandoned operations in Iraq. So what about Kashmir when have you got plans to stop killing Kashmiri's.
 
:blah::blah: as for hindu terrorists please let's not start with BABRI MASJID or OPERATION BLUE STAR!! has jagdish tytler,advani,bal thackray or babu bajrangi been tried??? so stop this drama of hindus want to retaliate against us!

as for parhoit in jail well hafeez saeed was also in jail!


AS FOR KASHMIR FIRST SOLVE KASHMIR and THEN BLAME PAKISTAN WILL "STILL EXPORT TERROR RANT" until you solve it don't ASSUME things which aren't there!!

Foolish logic. none of you cases has anything to do with Pakistan. then i can also say, killing of ahmadis, forcible conversion of hindus, destroying temples in pak, trying to kill sri lankan cricketeers, planting a bomb in times sq , hitting a last ball sixer..im bored typing now
Purohit is in jail and cannot comeout to harm more Pakistanis and muslims.
Hafees enjoyed Biryani in jail and now is encouraging more pakistanis to kill unarmed indian civilians like cowards
What is the point in solving kashmir. hindi mein ek kahavat hai, 'kutte ka poonch kabhi seedhi nahin ban sakti'
 
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You have blood on your hands my friend so no need to lecture us. You could lecture the Americans though. They are the only ones who have "respected" human rights more than U.K.

Well first you need to get glasses.......Lol, this is a thread about Kashmir and as it resides in India......you are held responsible for all the human rights violations in Kashmir.

Second there is no Americans in this thread for me to question them about there violation.....its as simple as that.

BBC News - Obama confirms plan for US troop withdrawal from Iraq

Well out least the Americans will leave Iraq soon and stop there mindless killing as you describe.....when will India do there's.
 
Well first you need to get glasses.......Lol, this is a thread about Kashmir and as it resides in India......you are held responsible for all the human rights violations in Kashmir.

Second there is no Americans in this thread for me to question them about there violation.....its as simple as that.

BBC News - Obama confirms plan for US troop withdrawal from Iraq

Well out least the Americans will leave Iraq soon and stop there mindless killing as you describe.....when will India do there's.

Its not mindless killing, but mindfull killing, kill the ones make trouble and every country on this plannt has done it.
 
Nah..........Indian are not going to accept tht wht there Army is doing in Occupied Kashmir is wrong and against human rights.

Do you ever accepted that the so called Mujahdeens doing in their is wrong and against human rights?

They Kill innocent Kashmirs then label them as freedom fighter.

No they are terrorists and we brand them as terrorists..its called calling a spade a spade..we dont different versions like good taliban and bad taliban looking at the boundaries
They rape the women and label them as virgins.

It was investgated by the CBI and later the doctor who done the postmortom himself clariffied that he write the report that the girls were raped due to some pressure..

They fire bullets on unarmed crowd and thin they are very brave.

Tell me some thing isyour military military also deployed and use fire arms against the violent mob to make situation under control..and from the picture you guys provide..you really think it was peaceful and unarmed crowd?

Keep living in the limited world which ur media presents to u .and keep killing Muslims in Kashmir but let me tell u one thing 1 day u will have to pay for all the acrocites ur army is doing in Kashmir.and i hope u people will suffer the same as Indian held Kashmirs are suffering now.

You mean like you suffering now in some parts in your country??You stop beliving what your media tells you...What about the Hindu kashmiries who were suffered by the hands of terrorists..to you they may be Kaffirs and scums,you dont need to know right??who is gonna pay for there sufferings??
 
Well the valley is the place where the main problem is. You have Kargil Poonch Rajouri which are muslim majority districts but are very pro-Indian. Just looking at some details from the recent Chatahm house polls and 2001 census below.

Kupwara and Pulwama were not covered in the poll but you could probably assume the responses will be similar to Baramulla



As you can see Kargil, Rajouri Poonch are very firmly on the pro-Indian side and want to make LoC as a IB even though they have majority muslim populations. Now the valley people more than 80% is most districts want independance not being part of Pakistan. Ofcourse 50% of the entire population of J&K state also lives in the valley as well, but there is the other 50% including muslims (so its not a religious divide) that are fine with being a part of India. Their biggest concerns are HR abuses by security forces which are quiet high.
Compare it too muslim majority areas of Jammu or evenKargil which is significantly less than their valley counterparts.

An idea of the districts can be seen from this map here



Even with the valley as independant or part of Pakistan, only the Jhelum river will be under their control. TheChenab and the Indus will still run to through pro-Indian areas. So it will not really solve the water "problem". Also let me remind that the Kashmiri valley people consider the IWT not in their favor so expect demands from the KAshmir valley for more control and access to their water which at present they do not get at an advantage to Pakistan.

Ofcourse in case of war, thevalley will be the battlefield. In other case, they will have to survive without the Jammu or Ladakh connections. A view of the physical profile with the valley circled in red is here



I think that addressing and punishing HR violations will go a long way in resolving this issue becausse most of these protests revolve around that. The points about demoralising the security forces are hollow when you have clearcut cases like the recent Machil fake encouter or the Pathribal incident in2000 where the CRPF officers were charge-sheeted by theCBI themselves and still havent been brought to book. In this way you are putting the lives and tarnishing the reputation of those upright security officers who don't eventhink of commiting HR violations.

On top of that a period of time with autonomy atleast for the valley alone-similar to what taiwan orHKhas in China should be given. A time bound period of 20-30 years and a review of wether to continue or revert to the same status as the rest of the state can then be decided in consultation with Pakistan.

The four point solution on J&K under Musharraf seems to be the only feasible solution outside bloodshed and violence and upholds the dignity of all people.
 
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Now it's the turn of 'children of the conflict'

By Sudha Ramachandran

BANGALORE - Mass protests in the Kashmir Valley resumed with heightened fury over the weekend. In the past six days, more than 28 people have been killed in clashes between security forces and protesters, taking the death toll over the past eight weeks to 45.

Although the government has imposed a curfew and strict restrictions on movement in Jammu and Kashmir's summer capital, Srinagar, as well as most of the other towns and big villages across the valley, there has been no let-up in the protests. Thousands of men, women and children continue to pour into the streets, refusing to be intimidated by a heavy police presence and security cordons.

Since 2008, India's northern-most state of Jammu and Kashmir has seen sporadic mass protests. In March, the extrajudicial killing of three men by the army in Kupwara district sparked public rage and unleashed a wave of unrest. The latest violence erupted on June 11, when a 17-year-old student on his way home from school was killed when a teargas shell fired by police ripped open his skull during a protest in Srinagar.

Kashmir is caught in a spiral of violence. Police shooting during demonstrations staged to protest against killings results in more deaths, triggering more protests and more violence. The protesters began with stone-pelting, but the violence has escalated. Last weekend, mobs were attacking not just the police but ambulances and doctors. They set fire to an explosives dump in Srinagar and railway stations in Sopore and Budgam.

A nine-year-old boy was included in Monday's list of fatalities, the youngest to be killed in the recent wave of protests. While police maintain he died in a stampede, locals insist he was beaten to death by the police. India's credibility is so low in the valley that nobody wants to believe Delhi's version of events.

There are striking parallels between the situation today and what happened in 1989-90, in the months before an armed militancy displaced the mass movement: the same defiance of authority, the anti-India sentiment, the pro-Pakistan and pro-azadi (freedom from India and Pakistan) slogans, the sea of protesters on the streets and the participation of women in these demonstrations.

"But the situation today is far more complex," says Ahmed Ali Fayyaz, a Srinagar-based Kashmiri journalist. He says the current lot of youth protesters - the bulk of whom are in the 12-20 year age group - is "more radicalized" than those who participated in the demonstrations two decades ago.

The impact of the Internet and YouTube is fueling anger like never before, Fayyaz says. Back in 1989-90, there was no Kashmiri media. Kashmiris watched Indian government-run television channels, which naturally put out the government view on issues and events. Newspapers published out of New Delhi provided the Indian mainstream perspective.

That has changed with pictures of violence from across the Valley - images of a father shielding his dead son's body and another of a teenager's skull split by a tear gas canister - easily spreading to computers and mobile phones.

Who are these young stone-pelting boys? The media have dubbed them the "children of the conflict". Most were born and brought up during the 1990s - the decade that saw the worst of the militancy in Kashmir. They have grown up amid guns, but for now they have chosen stones to express their anger with the Indian state.

The Indian government's position is that the protests are engineered by the separatists. A few weeks ago, Home Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram pointed an accusing finger at the Pakistan-based terrorist group, the Lashkar-e-Taiba. On Wednesday, he told parliament that the government "had reliable information that armed militants had mingled with the crowds and fired on the security forces".

Over the past several weeks, the separatist Hurriyat Conference, especially its most hardline and fundamentalist faction - the Hurriyat (Geelani) faction - has been stoking the violence. Led by 84-year-old Islamist patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani, Hurriyat (G) has been issuing a "protest calendar" every week for the past two months. These lay out the plans for the next seven days in which protesters will cripple Srinagar, but also when they will stay indoors and give the city's beleaguered residents time to stock up on provisions, or go to school and hospitals.

Since June, Geelani has been under arrest and in hospital. In his absence, his more radical deputy, the 47-year-old Masarat Alam, has been issuing the calendars. Alam and other hardliners have been justifying the stone-throwing. But Alam's hold over the protesters is also eroding, according to senior Kashmiri police.

Early this week, Jammu and Kashmir's chief minister Omar Abdullah said that the protests were "leaderless". The protesters are not listening to anyone, "not to the police or the civil administration, not to the separatists or even the Pakistan-based militants," observed the police officer.

"Kashmir is in a state of anarchy," said Kashmiri journalist Fayyaz.

The stone-pelting protesters may have been instigated by the separatists initially but they are not willing to follow their script anymore. "Last Sunday was an 'off-day' for protests but thousands were out on the streets," the police officer pointed out. The protests have hurtled out of the separatists' control.

Last week, when the Pakistan-based leader of the United Jihad Council and Hizbul Mujahideen chief, Syed Salahuddin, suggested to protesters that they adopt a more flexible approach, go slow on hartals (shutdowns) and allow people to buy food and let children study, effigies of him were burnt in Sopore, an Islamist stronghold and Hizbul Mujahideen bastion. Five masked men told a hurriedly called press conference in downtown Srinagar that Salahuddin's statement was a "betrayal of the nation".

"Who is he to tell us this? Sitting in *** [***************** Kashmir], eating chicken supplied by Pakistani agencies, how can he feel our pain, anger and helplessness?" said Abdul Bhat, a friend of the 17-year-old who was killed by a police teargas shell.

Salahuddin quickly retracted his statement and issued a clarification on July 25. Based in Pakistan-administered Kashmir for over 20 years, he is widely regarded in the valley as a mouthpiece for the country's Inter-Services Intelligence agency. The public snub of Salahuddin seems a message to Pakistan - keep your hands off the people's protest.

In 1989-90, many Kashmiris believed that independence was achievable. They believed Pakistan would help them achieve it. But within a few years, they realized that Islamabad wasn't arming their boys to let Kashmir become free, but to become a part of Pakistan. By the end of the decade, many Kashmiris were blaming Pakistan for their misery.

That growing anti-Pakistan sentiment provided space for India to resolve its conflict with the Kashmiri people. But it mistook the deadly calm in the valley for peace, measuring normalcy by the growing tourist arrivals. "The anti-India sentiment in the valley today is unambiguous," asserts Fayyaz.

Everyone seems to be running for cover from the stones and angry words of the "children of conflict" - including Indian and Kashmiri politicians from the ruling party and the opposition, moderate and hardline separatists, and even the militants. Not a single politician has stepped onto the streets to calm the angry mobs or visit hospitals to enquire about the injured.

On Wednesday, an appeal for a halt to the stone-pelting and the violence came from an unexpected quarter - Geelani. Those indulging in stone-pelting, burning offices, railway stations and vehicles "did not belong to the Kashmir movement" and were only causing harm to it, he said. "These violent acts are not helping our cause but inflicting damage to the movement. Our struggle against India should be peaceful." With the ground beneath his group's feet slipping away, Geelani is now struggling to regain his hold over protests he instigated and rage that he had stoked.

For India its strategy of "buying time", doing nothing to resolve the Kashmir conflict, is exploding in its face. Only this time, it will find it harder to extricate itself from the rubble.

"Dealing with the militancy seems easier," the police officer said, almost wistfully. "The militants were heavily armed. We shot them. How do we respond to these stone-pelting kids?"

Sudha Ramachandran is an independent journalist/researcher based in Bangalore.
 
Well the valley is the place where the main problem is. You have Kargil Poonch Rajouri which are muslim majority districts but are very pro-Indian. Just looking at some details from the recent Chatahm house polls and 2001 census below.

Kupwara and Baramulla were not convered in the poll but you could probably assume the responses will be similar to Baramulla



As you can see Kargil, Rajouri Poonch are very firmly on the pro-Indian side and want to make LoC as a IB even though they have majority muslim populations. Now the valley people more than 80% is most districts want independance not being part of Pakistan. Ofcourse 50% of the entire population of J&K state also lives in the valley as well, but there is the other 50% including muslims (so its not a religious divide) that are fine with being a part of India. Their biggest concerns are HR abuses by security forces which are quiet high.
Compare it too muslim majority areas of Jammu or evenKargil which is significantly less than their valley counterparts.

An idea of the districts can be seen from thsi map here
983733_jammu-kashmir.gif



Even with the valley as independant or part of Pakistan, only the Jhelum river will be under their control. TheChenab and the Indus will still run to through pro-Indian areas. So it will not really solve the water "problem". Also let me remind that the Kashmiri valley people consider the IWT not in their favor so expect demands from the KAshmir valley for more control and access to their water which at present they do not get at an advantage to Pakistan.

Ofcourse in case of war, thevalley will be the battlefield. In other case, they will have to survive without the Jammu or Ladakh connections. A view of the physical profile with the valley circled in red is here
983732_valley.png

haha.. that will be funny.. if kashmir gets independence and they turn of the water tap to Pak. LOL!!!
Yeah I am also aware that Kashmiris think IWT favors Pak. So Pak will wonder they were better off with honest india
 
The problem of kashmir is that some of these people pelting stones are religious bigots. This all started when Hindus were given land for worship and these bigots could not digest it. There were means available in system but they resorted to violence, look at physche of these people. They resort to violence for things that can be sorted by talks. They do not care when others die or when they looted their because they were Hindus. So these people are not so innocent and some of these deaths the blame lies with Parents who allowed their kids to take part in violent protest.

The Kashmiri's need to learn to live in mutli religious society.
 
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How long did your IRA problem last??

It probably lasted for 80 years, as some say that it was formed in 1917 or 1920.

however don't get my country involved when the thread is about India...stick to the topic, you should no better as your a senior member. India is doing the Killing not the UK goverement in Kashmir......as I said before the IRA problem is solved.
 
Also since you are of Pakistani origin, there are a bunch of problems in Pakistan that are as old as Kashmir.. Still going on..

And what's that got to do with it....seriously this really pisses me off just because you can't handle the fact that your goveremnt is a killing regime, and other people have different view....you go all personal.

How do you know I'm of Pakistani origin, stop persuming that you know me....in which you can say something like that. I don't care what Pakistan does......because this thread is not about Pakistan......do you think you can digest this information or do you want me to simplfy it for you.
 
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