Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[toxic_pus]

Although it is presently not possible, but nothing wrong in preparing and increasing India's cost of holding Kashmir. Then talks can be offered as a middle route, until we both realize and agree that the only solution is to let Kashmir go free, for the Kashmiris. Neither one of us gets it.

India is not erstwhile Russia. Neither is Kashmir, Afghanistan. That strategy will not work with India. On the other hand, it may just engulf Pakistan.

Careful what you wish for.

 

[PAFAce]

A country which has the genocide of East Pakistan under its belt, shouldn't be riding the high horse for at least ten thousand years.

And a country that has commited genocide after genocide in almost every single one of its states, fron Punjab to Kashmir to Assam, and has consistently violated international moves to resolve issues, shouldn't be reminding anybody of false genocides.

When it comes to high horses, yours is a Mount Everest to our molehill, so please, restrict the crap out-flow only to your behind.

You really love to wrestle in the mud. I am weak, sometimes I can't resist a challenge. I shall try my best from now on. Maybe solitude will give you time to reflect on yourself, but you won't like what you see.

 

[Hyde]

Seriously tell me one answer please............. Is there any real solution of Kashmir?

 

[Skeptic]

There has been a strong theory among Pakistani establishment ever since Zia's time for islamisation of political issues and armed forces. The contention was - by relating strong and emotional religious feelings with issues will motivate the armed forces to achieve the unthinkable. The language used in these rallies and Ex-ISI head also reflects the same. We have seen where to it has led to in one section of the country - Just wait a little longer - this Jihad will also turn on its head. 10 years on we might be hearing about a "Sharia state" being established in so called "Azad Kashmir" and with no expansion possible on the Indian side, they will look to expand in the Pakistani occupational areas of northern areas extending westwards.

For a "Charitable organization" dreaming of using force against Indian army and succeeding is highly imaginative and hardly plausible. Even the Pakistani Army will be pleased if they are able to attain sufficient deterrent to Indian armed forces leave alone materializing an aggressive intent. Even in 65 all they cold come p with was "operation Gibraltar" and don't we all know what became of it.

 

[karan.1970]

Seriously tell me one answer please............. Is there any real solution of Kashmir?

4 options really
1. India gives up its part of Kashmir... not gonna happen
2. Pakistan gives up its part of Kashmir.. not gonna happen either
3. LOC = IB ... better chances than the above 2 but still very bleak till the extremism towards Kashmir in the pakistani society doesnt reduce
4. Status quo--all of us are destined to live with this till 1 of the above 3 happens

 

[intruder]

Seriously tell me one answer please............. Is there any real solution of Kashmir?

Yes, we keep our part of kashmir and other part to you.

 

[dabong1]

Some interesting points up up by the indian members and i would like to answer a few if i could.

1.Kashmir belongs to india.

I think we all know that that british india was divided was along the lines of religion with the majority muslim areas making up pakistan and the majority hindu areas making up india.
Going of off this simple logic it is obvious that kashmir should go to pakistan.....after all it is a majority muslim area.If kashmir can not go to pakistan then the people of kashmir should at least have the choice between india,pakistan or independence.

2.The maharaja gave to kashmir to india.

The case of hyderabad junagadh come to mind......do i smell double standards?

3.The UN resolution (international)

It was you indians that took it to the UN in the first place.


4.Shimla accord.(bilateral)

After the invasion of sachin by india the shilma accord is void.

5.Chinese bit of kashmir.

So india has no problem with this becoming a trilateral issue?

As the indian members love telling us how much kashmiris love india why are you guys not willing to put it to the test and have a vote on the issue.

 

[Skeptic]

Some interesting points up up by the indian members and i would like to answer a few if i could.

1.Kashmir belongs to india.

I think we all know that that british india was divided was along the lines of religion with the majority muslim areas making up pakistan and the majority hindu areas making up india.
Going of off this simple logic it is obvious that kashmir should go to pakistan.....after all it is a majority muslim area.If kashmir can not go to pakistan then the people of kashmir should at least have the choice between india,pakistan or independence.

2.The maharaja gave to kashmir to india.

The case of hyderabad junagadh come to mind......do i smell double standards?

3.The UN resolution (international)

It was you indians that took it to the UN in the first place.


4.Shimla accord.(bilateral)

After the invasion of sachin by india the shilma accord is void.

5.Chinese bit of kashmir.

So india has no problem with this becoming a trilateral issue?

As the indian members love telling us how much kashmiris love india why are you guys not willing to put it to the test and have a vote on the issue.

Kashmir belongs to india because pakistan never had any control at all since independence to any part of Jammu and kashmir our side of the loc.

Maharaja signed the document and you are conveniently forgetting geographic compulsions. If at all junagarh and hyderabad were acceded to pakistan, pakistan would have more to crib about than just 1971.

Un resolution was not binding. additionally it was subject to Pakistan adhering to the terms. We did not find that happening.

Pakistan has gone on several times violating terms in UN resolution, but you view as still valid, while siachin was not even covered in Simla accord, and it is violated..... Now who was mentioning double standards.

We are not interested in adding any new parties, but chinese bit of kashmir is sufficient evidence to pull pakistani of their moral high horses.

All the votings necessary for any Indian state are already happening in Jammu and Kashmir. We don't need any further.

 

[hero]

Some interesting points up up by the indian members and i would like to answer a few if i could.

1.Kashmir belongs to india.

I think we all know that that british india was divided was along the lines of religion with the majority muslim areas making up pakistan and the majority hindu areas making up india.
Going of off this simple logic it is obvious that kashmir should go to pakistan.....after all it is a majority muslim area.If kashmir can not go to pakistan then the people of kashmir should at least have the choice between india,pakistan or independence.

2.The maharaja gave to kashmir to india.

The case of hyderabad junagadh come to mind......do i smell double standards?

3.The UN resolution (international)

It was you indians that took it to the UN in the first place.


4.Shimla accord.(bilateral)

After the invasion of sachin by india the shilma accord is void.

5.Chinese bit of kashmir.

So india has no problem with this becoming a trilateral issue?

As the indian members love telling us how much kashmiris love india why are you guys not willing to put it to the test and have a vote on the issue.

Is there any poll/referendum in pakistan occupied kashmir?

Pakistan is a failed state, if it is muslim state why there daily bombing. sectarian voilance.

Please conduct poll in bolochistan , nw province. See the poll number how many people wants to be in pakistan. Once you conduct poll it will put pressure on india.

regards,
hero

 

[FireFighter]

Indian soldiers serving in Kashmir are a fair kill. Use of force should however only be warranted by Pakistan Army. The use of force would be a valid method of taking Kashmir provided it can work.

Beautifully put it.



These pesky rats can't even control Kashmir with nearly a million boots on the ground, with so much brute force and terror applied on civilian population for the past 60 years, turned kashmir into the palestine of Asia, they haven't been able to change perceptions or shake the resolve and determination of our Pakistani brethren in Kashmir.

Yet they still fantasize owning Kashmir one day making it a part of india, with their justification of institutional terror upon the Kashmiris, i hardly doubt they would last a single day in Kashmir with so much venom in their hearts, living in a fool's paradise clearly won't help their cause. Wake up and pull your troops out before it's too late.

 

[krish]

Beautifully put it.



These pesky rats can't even control Kashmir with nearly a million boots on the ground, with so much brute force and terror applied on civilian population for the past 60 years, turned kashmir into the palestine of Asia, they haven't been able to change perceptions or shake the resolve and determination of our Pakistani brethren in Kashmir.

Yet they still fantasize owning Kashmir one day making it a part of india, with their justification of institutional terror upon the Kashmiris, i hardly doubt they would last a single day in Kashmir with so much venom in their hearts, living in a fool's paradise clearly won't help their cause. Wake up and pull your troops out before it's too late.

ok.... here is the deal show me any proof of government of pakistan officers or any government office (except the army ) working in pakistan's NW provinces or wajristan ( correct me if i have spelled it incorrectly)dude there is no control of ur own territory which is not under any dispute, and more over its a lawless region, im pointing out just a few. Pakistan is not a failed state yet, but will become failed state in future if u dont control these warlords and, first clear all the mess that u have in ur hand and then talk about kashmir and where there is a elected government and more over the recent elections clearly gave the verdict that all the indian Muslims in kashmir want to stay with india and "DO NOT WANT PAKISTAN" this was the answer they gave to the separatist by participating in the election and voting for india and more over the violence in kashmir is done by separatist who are cornered and are desperate to do some thing to keep their agenda going else they may fail miserably..................
the moral of the story is " ESTABLISH CONTROL OVER UR TERRITORIES ADJOINING BALUCHISTAN AND NW PROVINCES ADJOINING AFGHANISTAN AND THEN TALK ABOUT THE SO CALLED IMAGINARY LAWLESSNESS IN KASHMIR"

 

[toxic_pus]

And a country that has commited genocide after genocide in almost every single one of its states, fron Punjab to Kashmir to Assam, and has consistently violated international moves to resolve issues, shouldn't be reminding anybody of false genocides.

Just mention East Pakistan and you can expect some bile.

None of what you have mentioned i.e. 'from Punjab to Kashmir to Assam', qualify as state sponsored 'genocide'. Human rights violation, sure. But nowhere close to being a 'genocide', and certainly nothing that even comes remotely within the vicinity of being close to the genocide that PA perpetrated in East Pakistan.

By the way, it is not me alone, who is calling that 'genocide'. Even International Commission of Jurors (ICJ) called the slaughter of Hindus as genocide.

Forget riding the high-pony. You shouldn't even be looking at it.

 

[toxic_pus]

1.Kashmir belongs to india.

I think we all know that that british india was divided was along the lines of religion with the majority muslim areas making up pakistan and the majority hindu areas making up india.
Going of off this simple logic it is obvious that kashmir should go to pakistan.....after all it is a majority muslim area.If kashmir can not go to pakistan then the people of kashmir should at least have the choice between india,pakistan or independence.

Except that this ‘rule of majority’ didn’t apply to princely states, and Kashmir was a princely state. The rule that applied was that the rulers and rulers alone would decide which way to swing. Plebiscite was India’s self-imposed obligation in accordance with what was followed in Junagadh and Hyderabad. In fact, Kashmir wouldn’t have become such an imbroglio if Jinnah hadn’t become so impatient, or at least didn’t reject Mountbatten’s suggestion of plebiscite as early as 1st Nov, 1947 (I have to check the date).

2.The maharaja gave to kashmir to india.

The case of hyderabad junagadh come to mind......do i smell double standards?

The double standard is on your part. Pakistan first rejected plebiscite in any of the princely states of Junagadh, Hyderabad and Kashmir and wanted accession as per Section 6(1) of India Act, 1935. (That section declared that accession will be deemed to have been completed if the ruler had executed the Instrument of Accession). But then when Pakistanis realized that their plans in Kashmir were coming to naught, they immediately changed their position and started asking for plebiscite. That is hypocrisy.

Contrast that to India’s position. India had always maintained that plebiscite would be the key. Accordingly, plebiscite in Junagadh and Hyderabad was held. Unfortunately, in Kashmir, Pakistan’s presence complicated things, particularly because Pakistan was unwilling to honour its obligation under the UN resolutions. Since plebiscite was contingent upon Pakistan’s withdrawal of its own citizens and tribesmen (and subsequent demilitarization), which never happened, plebiscite never happened.

3.The UN resolution (international)

It was you indians that took it to the UN in the first place.

So. The resolutions are under Chapter VI, which merely make them ‘recommendatory’.

4.Shimla accord.(bilateral)

After the invasion of sachin by india the shilma accord is void.

Siachen would be violation of Shimla Accord, if you can prove that Siachen was part of Pakistan. Regardless of that, if your logic is to be followed, then UN resolutions became void, the moment PA broke the cease fire agreement in 1965.

5.Chinese bit of kashmir.

So india has no problem with this becoming a trilateral issue?

O yes, we have. It is a bilateral issue and no apple of Pakistan’s eye has any role here.

As the indian members love telling us how much kashmiris love india why are you guys not willing to put it to the test and have a vote on the issue.

Sure. Why not. I am assuming that all Pakistanis have been withdrawn from all of P0K.

O wait…

 

[DeathGod]

1.Punjab isn't a fair target, since its not disputed territory.

2.You can't take over Punjab - period. Indian soldiers stepping into Punjab will face gun fire from every household. You tried it in 1965 and were chased back.

1. According to whom? Do you seriously think if PA will attack Kashmir , India wont attack Punjab ( claiming provocation ) . See the truth is that one needs to be in shoes of both the parties before really thinking about the solution of a problem which is Kashmir. There is no military solution to it. Period. ( even if PA takes over it once, India will retailiate, it not suddenly then over a number of years till PA is ousted, preety much what PA is doing since independence)

2. I never said taking over punjab , I just said to hit pakistan where it hurts the most esp given the constraints of PAF and PN. There will be no winner in war and any adventurism by PA will lead pakistan only one way and that is down.

 

[paritosh]

Although it is presently not possible, but nothing wrong in preparing and increasing India's cost of holding Kashmir. Then talks can be offered as a middle route, until we both realize and agree that the only solution is to let Kashmir go free, for the Kashmiris. Neither one of us gets it.

believe me the cost of holding Kashmir has never been even close to being unbearable...an indicator of this is the flat refusal on our side to even engage in bilateral,trilateral or UN-lateral talks on the matter...
had we been facing problems of escalating daily expenses in Kashmir we'd have accepted if not initiated a way to settle the matter...
Asim...this is not the 90s...the world opinion has had a paradigm shift...the world has grown absolutely intolerable to Islamic violence...and I stress on the word 'Islamic'.
be it Russia ,america or China...they want none of it...
to put it in simpler words...the righteousness of a war is decided by global opinion...and it won't be difficult to sway it in our favor...the world has started seeing Kashmir through our eyes...