Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Imran Khan]

udher tum idher hum is now posible one loc= ib

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

And what would be that?

well the UN proposal for a plebicit and the right of Kashmiri people to vote for their future as proposed by the UN ..!

 

[Valiant_Soul]

udher tum idher hum is now posible one loc= ib

You have my vote! I think this is the most pragmatic solution...but Pakistan has consistently maintained that they will not accept LoC as border.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

(1) Pakistan gives up on terrorism as a state weapon (i.e. Dismantle terror infrastructure and groups, hand over India's most wanted to India, take care of LeT, Jem.......etc)

(2) India agrees to a time bound (say 5-10 years) period to resolve the Kashmir issue which will be acceptable to all parties, even rope in a neutral mediator say Norway for the same

I think Pakistan has shown the intent to move forward on these issues . Already LET members are going through trial in courts , many others you mention will also follow . Plus one thin is , Currently Pakistan is already fighting more bloody terrorists on the west , I am pretty much certin that the terror orgs you mention are on the hit list of PA , but the process is gradual and also includes the complexities tied to the Kashmir dispute .

 

[Valiant_Soul]

well the UN proposal for a plebicit and the right of Kashmiri people to vote for their future as proposed by the UN ..!

That does not holds good now. The population demographic have changed and moreover you need to understand that territory belongs to the nation and not to the ethnic population there. If a nation goes by this logic then any state can begin to demand freedom, and you cannot keep the integrity of a nation intact.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

I think Pakistan has shown the intent to move forward on these issues . Already LET members are going through trial in courts , many others you mention will also follow . Plus one thin is , Currently Pakistan is already fighting more bloody terrorists on the east , I am pretty much certin that the terror orgs you mention are on the hit list of PA , but the process is gradual and also includes the complexities tied to the Kashmir dispute .

My friend, Pakistan has shown such hollow intentions many times in the past. Look at what happened in Muzzafarabad...the JuD banned by the UN is holding anti-India really right under the nose of the Punjab assembly. And you expect India to believe the intention of Pakistan? Hafeez Sayed walks free from the court despite India providing enough evidence to Pakistan in connection with 26/11. This game has been going on for too long now.

 

[Imran Khan]

I still think same .loc make border finish whole matter india or pakistan can't take now 1 metter by force of each other.to hell with this issue its distroy us much much just for nothing.pakistan has to stop freedom fighter (by india terrarsts) and india has to widrow troops stop humen rights voilations make soft borders for poor people of both side give more power to kashmiris.solve it forever and let us live a humen life without load sheding and shortage of gas suger and wheat.our main issue then will be powerty we can fight with it and earn more respect in international comunity.both side should agreement also for not to spread propegenda or media war blame game against each other.its major issue finishing time.

 

[Gazzi]

The point is one of trust. WE DO NOT TRUST THE INDIANS. Both sides have gone through decades of hatred and both sides have gone in for one adventure to another, whether it be Kargil or Siachen.

The main problem is the Indian media, Hindu fanatics, I don;t wish to go for points, counter points, but even during and after 26/11 attacks, the International media heavily criticised the Indian media, especially the likes of Burkha DUTT, for being a drama queen. People like this, who can pull the attention of the masses, have done nothing but grown seeds of hatred in the next Indian generation towards Pakistan and Muslims.......similarly, our religious elite have done the same towards India and hatred for India runs deep.

There is alot of mistrust there and to allow Military co-operation on the scale you are mentioning in Afghanistan is a big no no, just like India would not be too happy with Pakistan having a military presence in an Indian neighbouring country as this too can be used in a hostile manner if and when required.

Pakistan cannot afford to have an Army in Afghanistan which is more incolined towards India, especially a National Army in their thousands.

My viewpoint is quite clear that the Indian government, unlike previous governments, have not left any room for manouvering. They had gone down this silly line of end terrorism first, not taking into account that that so called terrorism they see is seem as a freedom struggle by others, why, because of Kashmir, the main cause of the problem in the first place.

India had from 1947 - 1989, 42 years to go ahead with their plebiscite which nehru had agreed and made many pledges to hold including his famous speech in lal Chowk, but when that has not been honoured by India, a violent path has been clearly chosen.

india now needs to deal with this problem hand in hand with Pakistan, so that this matter can be resolved. But this will have to be done on equal terms.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

A member summed things up very correctly for Pakistan in another thread. I quote:

What's the point of worrying about India's Muslims when most of our own Muslim population is totally neglected by the state (just look at illiteracy, poverty and unemployment rates) and when there are extremist Muslims blowing up other Muslims in Pakistan, or Shia vs. Sunny battle raging on for decades? Is it our duty to look after the Muslims of the entire world when we can barely do that with Pakistan's own Muslims? We don't have time for this nonsense of building animosity towards India because of their communal infighting. There is a disaster brewing and bubbling on our own stove. Let the Indians massacre each other, it's their country. Look where India has reached and see where Pakistan is stuck. We ourselves have a bad track record of treating minorities. For example...when Pakistan was formed, hundreds of thousands of European Muslims came flocking to Pakistan with passion and idealism. Barely 30 years later these people all moved out because of the racism and paranoia in the halls of leadership and within society itself. Let's for once eat our own sh!t before feeding it to others.

This is what Pakistan essentially need to focus on. I would be blunt but I have to say this: Pakistanis have been deceived by corrupt people in power to believe that India is evil. And I think you can guess who gets the most by projecting India as an enemy and a potent threat. India is not the enemy of Pakistan, this is the most important thing that all Pakistanis must realize. They should press their government to focus on the real enemies and one of them is extremism.

 

[Raje amar]

The government of Pakistan says so. But while we've seen evidence against LeT, we've not seen evidence linking the two or any direct evidence against JuD.

However we HAVE seen their IT training centers, medicine dispensaries, Abulance services and free of cost roti services. The government of Pakistan may be wrong in its charges against JuD - correct against LeT.

We have no issues with these parties fighting in Kashmir, but we do have issues when they fight outside of Kashmir. We also have issues when these parties fight in Kashmir using Pakistan as its base of operations.

Fight Indian Army in Kashmir from India, and you have our blessings.

Thats what India expects from Pakistan........
Please.....Please .......Please dont allow any terrerist activity from Pakistani soil against India. Let alone Kashmir, if you can do this much our relations will improve more than half way.......

 

[Gazzi]

A member summed things up very correctly for Pakistan in another thread. I quote:



This is what Pakistan essentially need to focus on. I would be blunt but I have to say this: Pakistanis have been deceived by corrupt people in power to believe that India is evil. And I think you can guess who gets the most by projecting India as an enemy and a potent threat. India is not the enemy of Pakistan, this is the most important thing that all Pakistanis must realize. They should press their government to focus on the real enemies and one of them is extremism.

Valiant Sole........what makes you think that the problem lies on the other side........there seems to be a superiority complex issue here again with India.

India is our enemy and vis versa, please don't be so silly, we haven;t gone to war many a times for the sake of it.

Don't be so complacent, we believe India is in the wrong and India is deliberatly projecting the ISI, PA and other groups in pakistan in the wrong way for its masses.......the story works both ways, you will have your points and I will have my counterpoints........we can argue this till the cows comes home....so lets cut to the chase, where do we go from here, and how does one resolve this issue

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

My friend, Pakistan has shown such hollow intentions many times in the past. Look at what happened in Muzzafarabad...the JuD banned by the UN is holding anti-India really right under the nose of the Punjab assembly. And you expect India to believe the intention of Pakistan? Hafeez Sayed walks free from the court despite India providing enough evidence to Pakistan in connection with 26/11. This game has been going on for too long now.

I think many of their activities which were once used to forment terrorism in India are grounded . Many of the Hardcore millitants among their cloumns are now in prison . As for the rally goes , Every body has the freedom to put its views . Again i would point that , Pakistan was reluctant to go after the LET because India was not even ready to come to the dialogue table despite the every effort made by Pakistan .
Personally we wont go any inch forward by arguing the issue terror camps , Many here believe India is also formenting terror in Balochistan from across Afghanistan (However lets not dig into this).
What i suggest is, India and Pakistan should look into the ways in which they cooperate with each other in a constructive manner . The one such could be Pakistani cooperation in the facilitation of Indian inclusion in the Afghan Matrix in return for the Indian cooperation over the settlement of Kashmir dispute . The scenario is pretty much workable and would lay down the keel to move forward on many other issues including the crack down of Terrorist orgs hostile to India ...

 

[Gazzi]

I think many of their activities which were once used to forment terrorism in India are grounded . Many of the Hardcore millitants among their cloumns are now in prison . As for the rally goes , Every body has the freedom to put its views . Again i would point that , Pakistan was reluctant to go after the LET because India was not even ready to come to the dialogue table despite the every effort made by Pakistan .
Personally we wont go any inch forward by arguing the issue terror camps , Many here believe India is also formenting terror in Balochistan from across Afghanistan (However lets not dig into this).
What i suggest is, India and Pakistan should look into the ways in which they cooperate with each other in a constructive manner . The one such could be Pakistani cooperation in the facilitation of Indian inclusion in the Afghan Matrix in return for the Indian cooperation over the settlement of Kashmir dispute . The scenario is pretty much workable and would lay down the keel to move forward on many other issues including the crack down of Terrorist orgs hostile to India ...

I agree with most your post, however, WHY would or should Pakistan support an Indian presence or inclusion int eh Afghan Matrix. It is not as though India shares a border with Afghanistan. This will strategically and tactically be a disaster for Pakistan with a two front threat posed.........Like I have said earlier, India is a country we just do not trust

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Don't be so complacent, we believe India is in the wrong and India is deliberatly projecting the ISI, PA and other groups in pakistan in the wrong way for its masses.......

And what has India done to Pakistan to be in the wrong? I am sure that you are aware that Pakistan wants to tear away Kashmir from India with the tool of cross-border terrorism that is world renowned now. It has been 15 years of cross-border terrorism. Do you think Indian establishment can fool its people for 15 years? Even when you know the real power lies with chosen government here and not, as in your case, the army? Do you think every party here wants to kill its own people? You need to introspect thoroughly. India is a huge country not a bunch of hooligans.

And about your claim of India being involved in terrorist activities in Pakistan...show the world even a single conclusive proof and point even one country that accepts that India is involved. While you should check how many countries accept Pakistan as sponsoring terrorism. Burying your head in the sand will take you nowhere unless you are willing to see the facts over your misplaced emotions.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

I agree with most your post, however, WHY would or should Pakistan support an Indian presence or inclusion int eh Afghan Matrix. It is not as though India shares a border with Afghanistan. This will strategically and tactically be a disaster for Pakistan with a two front threat posed.........Like I have said earlier, India is a country we just do not trust

My Friend
I think given the conditions , India is involved in the process of nation building in Afghanistan , Now inorder to do that Pakistan can provide all the logistics to India to carry the goods and material support from the eastren border to the westren border into Afghanistan . In this way india would rely on Pakistani support to do buisness in Afghanistan ,just the way NATO relies on Pakistan for its supplies to Afghanistan . Given such a cooperation , India would not dare to mess with Pakistan . In return India will be compelled to cooperate with Pakistan over the Kashmir dispute in return for the Pakistani cooperation in the peacefull Indian activities in Afghanistan. I dont see a threat by Indian Activities in Afghanistan , once both counteries indulge in such a cooperation .

Theres a great opportunity for India to expand its trade to the CAR through Pakistan and Afghanistan , and theres a great opportunity for Pakistan to have the Kashmir dispute settled and live in a peacefull environment with India ..