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If Indians were really interested in killing Hurriyat leader Geelani would have been dead long back. He is the one who is creating more troubles for India rather then anyone else, and it would have been done long back not now. So your argument is baseless.

Infact if this is possible that we can get someone eliminated then we should go for Geelani next time he creates trouble. He is defiantly hired to create trouble.
 
Actually it depends if you're Indian or Kashmiri...

To me there is no difference....A kashmiri is as much Indian as i am...Though i respect your different perception yet i would appreciate if you respect the sentiments of other side as well...I am sure you would understand how it feels if i make some calls like "if you are a Pakistani or from Balochistan"...

APHC (M), which is close to Pakistan would want Kashmiris to be included in the talks. Remember our position for long has been that a Kashmir solution has to be trilateral and not bilateral. The third party being the Kashmiris.

Exactly and one of reason you would not like to have any progress between GOI and Hurriyat over Kashmir without you being a party...Also i have no intentions of bringing in ISI or PAK in this....I am just responding to your statement...
The other thing is Indian government has acknowledged that it is withdrawing two battalions from Kashmir as a sign of goodwill at these talks. So they seem to be benefiting the separatists (non-violent separatists, hopefully).

So far i am in agreement with you....

Someone from India might have wanted to chance it out that the talks would derail since the Indian government rolled the ball on troop pullout. I'm pretty sure there are varying point of views in India on this.

Here you are wrong...India unanimously want troops reduction in Kashmir...Though a rare moment yet this is one issue on which all parties(Govt and Opposition) at center as well as state level are unanimous...Now i cannot vouch if some freak is hell-bent on destroying this...However as far as GOI is concerned be rest assured every one is in agreement on Troops Reduction...

A very odd and new name claims responsibility. Al Nasireen. The Supporters. Very Arab and very different from the Urdu names like Lashkar-e-Tayyaba. I'm saying it sounds made up. Now a terrorist killing to disrupt peace talks won't call up and admit to it, won't he let the talks "disrupt" and let India take the blame for it?


Well i am not surprised you have a different opinion...Obviously what else can you expect from years of animosity...If i were you i might have also taken your path...However all i am requesting is to challenge the obvious...GOI will choose Hurriyat over Terrorist at any given time because of obvious reasons...As i did before let me spin your question again...If i want to kill someone and put the blame on someone else would i choose an existing terror group or will choose "A very odd and new name"...What say???
 
Infact if this is possible that we can get someone eliminated then we should go for Geelani next time he creates trouble. He is defiantly hired to create trouble.
Rest assured even killing him won't help...if it was just Geelani we might have done that long back...However he is not alone...he has significant backing of Kashmiri's...In one of the interview Mr Omar Abdullah very candidly said that "there were more people in a rally called by Separatist than number who came to listen to me"....Long story short it is imperative to keep people like him and bring them on negotiation table...If he acts like an *** then kill the public support by doing the right things....

Troops reduction will do wonders to trust building that GOI needs to win Kashmiri hearts which for multiple reasons filled with lot of grudge against GOI...
 
To me there is no difference....A kashmiri is as much Indian as i am...Though i respect your different perception yet i would appreciate if you respect the sentiments of other side as well...I am sure you would understand how it feels if i make some calls like "if you are a Pakistani or from Balochistan"...
Sorry can't do that. To me a Kashmiri is a Kashmiri till the people of Kashmir vote to say otherwise in a UN administered plebiscite. I don't say this out of spite as you have suggested the Balochistan example but this is a core fundamental belief of mine as a Pakistani and as a human that Kashmiris are a separate nation.

Exactly and one of reason you would not like to have any progress between GOI and Hurriyat over Kashmir without you being a party...Also i have no intentions of bringing in ISI or PAK in this....I am just responding to your statement...
How do you know our blessings aren't behind this? Indian troops did withdraw from J&K, it is a pro-Pakistan unification party, which in the case of a plebiscite bodes well for us. Yes if it was JKLF and not APHC then we might have some cause for concern, then too we know they would never accept Indian administration of Kashmir either, with APHC we know they would keep pushing our PR out into the Kashmiri populace.

So far i am in agreement with you....

Here you are wrong...India unanimously want troops reduction in Kashmir...Though a rare moment yet this is one issue on which all parties(Govt and Opposition) at center as well as state level are unanimous...Now i cannot vouch if some freak is hell-bent on destroying this...However as far as GOI is concerned be rest assured every one is in agreement on Troops Reduction...

That remains to be seen, I think the hawks in India are cautiously watching before making strong comments.

Well i am not surprised you have a different opinion...Obviously what else can you expect from years of animosity...If i were you i might have also taken your path...However all i am requesting is to challenge the obvious...GOI will choose Hurriyat over Terrorist at any given time because of obvious reasons...As i did before let me spin your question again...If i want to kill someone and put the blame on someone else would i choose an existing terror group or will choose "A very odd and new name"...What say???

Well then nothing can be proven, but yet the Indian government as it always does, wasted no time in providing the culprit and the motive behind the attack and what do you know, its proven right by an admission.

Thats why I asked "What if India shot him?" Which is more likely, given that the result the Hurriyat group has produced is in the direction which we want things to go.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I guess then all we have to do is wait and watch....Only few statements where i disagree...
How do you know our blessings aren't behind this?

Any peace agreement bilaterally between GOI and Hurriyat will undermine Pakistani long term stand of trilateral dialogue between GOI..Pak and Kashmiri's...and bolden India's stand of solving Kashmir issue separately with PAK(for P-O-K) and with Hurriyat(internal matter)...So you can understand the obvious reasons for me to suspect...

Yes if it was JKLF and not APHC then we might have some cause for concern, then too we know they would never accept Indian administration of Kashmir either

You never know what is going behind the doors...neither do I..However more autonomy in Indian Part of Kashmir may be acceptable to them...What can i say lets wait and watch....

Well then nothing can be proven, but yet the Indian government as it always does, wasted no time in providing the culprit and the motive behind the attack and what do you know, its proven right by an admission.
\

No one has provided any culprit....In fact no one has been caught(Please let me know in case i missed this news)...All GOI said is that its the work of a terrorists and one group claimed its responsibility(a usual practice)....
 
What if the Indians shot him? Historically speaking, the Hurriyat leaders have been the most outspoken anti-Indian group of them all. Kashmiri leaders are mostly all moderates. They fight to free themselves, out necessity, and in self-defence. Not for any extremist ideology.

There are many Kashmiri leaders that have been assassinated by Pakistan-based militant groups. Mirwaiz's father was one of them. Sajjad Lone's father was another.
 
Rising Kashmir, Daily Newspaper, Srinagar Jammu and Kashmir - Jolt to quiet talks

Srinagar, Dec 04: Senior separatist leader and Hurriyat (M) executive member Fazal Haq Qureshi was shot at from a close range outside his Soura residence Friday evening, injuring him critically.
Hurriyat (M) chairman Mirwaiz Umar Farooq has called for Kashmir bandh on Saturday while the faction led by Syed Ali Geelani has smelt conspiracy behind the attack.

SP Hazratbal Maqsood-u-Zaman told Rising Kashmir that unidentified gunmen shot at Hurriyat (M) leader Fazal Haq Qureshi from close range at 5.45 pm while he was coming out of a Masjid near his residence in Bilal Colony Soura after offering evening prayers.
He said nobody has seen the people, who carried out the attack as it was dark.

“Police have registered a case and started investigations,” he said.
According to police sources, they already had the intelligence input that four to five members of the separatist leadership may be targeted.

Qureshi, who is one of the pro-dialogue leaders in Hurriyat (M), was immediately shifted to SKIMS where he was operated upon by a team of doctors. The doctors, however, could not say with certainty what caused the injury.

“A team of three doctors including two neurosurgeons and anesthetist operated Qureshi along with other associates including the elder daughter of the separatist leader, who is also a medico. Debridement surgery has been performed and he is on ventilator now. However, everything will depend on his behavior after surgery. The picture is not gloomy but we cannot say anything with confidence yet. We have to wait at least for next six hours,” Medical Superintendent SKIMS Dr. Syed Amin Tabish told Rising Kashmir.
About the nature of injury Dr. Tabish said, “We have not found any bullet in the head. It may be a blunt injury as well”.
The 66-year old Hurriyat (M) leader is among the few members in the moderate faction, who are in favor of the dialogue process. He along with Bilal Lone was recently assigned to get separatist leadership outside the ambit of Hurriyat (M) on board for a fresh dialogue with New Delhi.

Immediately after the incident, Hurriyat (M) chairman Mirwaiz Muhammad Umer Farooq, executive members Prof Abdul Gani Bhat and Bilal Gani Lone and senior member Nayeem Khan visited the hospital. They were camping in SKIMS.

Qureshi was behind the first ever peace talks between Hizbul Mujahideen and Government of India in 2000.
He was also part of Al-Fateh movement in 1960s and has spent some time in jail with Maqbool Bhat.

Meanwhile, Hurriyat Conference (M) chairman Mirwaiz Umar Farooq has called for complete shutdown on December 5 (Saturday).
“Kashmir bandh will be observed on Saturday against the heinous act. It is done by those who don’t want Kashmir issue to get resolved peacefully,” said Mirwaiz.
Hurriyat (G) spokesperson Ayaz Akbar while condemning the act said, “It is a worst form of terrorism. It is a conspiracy to create differences amongst the people and divide the society. A society that cannot bear difference of opinion cannot be called a human society. Human life is precious”.

While strongly condemning the incident JKLF chairman Mohammad Yasin Malik said, “Whosever did it could not be the part of human society. It is inhuman brutal act. Qureshi is part of the resistance movement from four decades. He has great contribution in this struggle”.

Malik also visited SKIMS late in evening to inquire about the health of Qureshi.

Hurriyat (M) leaders Salim Geelani, Shadidul Islam, Muhammad Yousuf Naqash, Manan Bukhari and others have condemned the attack.

Meanwhile, several separatist and pro-Indian political parties have condemned the act.

In a tele-statement to a local news agency KNS, a militant group, Al Nasreen has claimed the responsibility of the attack.


“Qureshi was playing important role in dialogue process,” said spokesperson of Alnasereen Sheikh Abdul Waheed
 
Though i want to make a little controvertial statement...Whenever some innocent civilian is killed by Army(or for that matter Army hand is suspected) Kashmir just boils down...but when such incidents happen life just goes on as normal...

I guess that's because when you protest about police or security forces something gets done, there is an end result and a sense of some justice being done. In the case of militants, what are protests going to do? The overwhelming majority do not want violence but are still targeted.

Anyways, Hurriyat (M) have caled for a full day Bandh on Sunday to protest this and many parties including Geelani's group have condemned the attack

Hurriyat (M) calls Kashmir bandh today in protest of militant attacks
 
It is sad that another Kashmiri leader is gunned down in IOK, may Allah bless him with life and health.

There are many Kashmiri leaders that have been assassinated by Pakistan-based militant groups. Mirwaiz's father was one of them. Sajjad Lone's father was another.

and yet both are much closer to Pakistan and its point of view on Kashmir. May be they understand that it could be the work of RAW with a blame on the mujahideens?

I will be very candid (as usual). Majority of the Kashmiris in the IOK either want to be independent of both India and Pakistan OR they want ot be a part of Pakistan.

India is not in the future picture for Kashmiris so instead of wasting time on forums, I would suggest spend time convincing fellow Indians about facts. Make other Indians realize that Kashmiris don't want to be a part of India and it is only in India's benefit to resolve the Kashmir issue sooner than later.

I know that I might have offended some of you but you should think that an Indian is suggesting you this. That will make it easier for you to think.
 
^^^^ You are mistaken if that is what you think is the sentiment of all the people in J&K. Remember Jammu, Ladakh GB are all part of J&K not ust the border districts of Kashmir valley which have sentiment for independence including on the Pakistani side.

Please refer to this post on a recent survey done by an Irish organization on constitutional and other issues for Kashmiri people.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmi...s-pakistani-designs-kashmir-7.html#post569039
 
Hurriyat leader Qureshi stable but critical | TwoCircles.net

Srinagar : Senior separatist Hurriyat Conference leader Fazal Haque Qureshi, who was shot outside his house here by unidentified gunmen Friday, is stable but not out of danger, a relative of his said Saturday.

"His operation was conducted last night which continued till 11.30 p.m. and the doctors said he is stable but critical," Tariq Andrabi, a close relative, told IANS.

Qureshi is in the Intensive Care Unit (ICU) of the Sher-e-Kashmir Medical Institute Soura (SKIMS) under tight security and no one is allowed to meet him except close relatives, Andrabi said.

Doctors had Friday said a bullet has pierced his head.

Qureshi, a senior leader of the moderate Hurriyat group headed by Mirwaiz Umer Farooq, is said to be one of the most vocal supporters of the dialogue process to solve the Kashmir issue.

He was shot and critically wounded outside his Soura house Friday evening when he was leaving for prayers at a mosque. Four men shot him from close range.

The attack on him is seen as an attempt to derail the "quiet dialogue" reportedly going on between the union government and the Kashmiri separatist leaders.
 
Asim, mirwaziz is the part of a moderate huriyat faction. I got this info from the main stream media here. And he was always for talks with india. However there are many hardcore and extrimists seperatists(but not yet terrorists) and india knows how to differentiate them as the line is very clear to india.

Yesterday i had seen a interview with an hardcore extrimst seperatist Mr. Yaseen malik, i wonder if he had any role in the attacks. If people like him are leading the seperatists movement in kashmir i dont think that movement can generate much following.. coz he is really a brainless person..!!!!
 
It is sad that another Kashmiri leader is gunned down in IOK, may Allah bless him with life and health.



and yet both are much closer to Pakistan and its point of view on Kashmir. May be they understand that it could be the work of RAW with a blame on the mujahideens?

I will be very candid (as usual). Majority of the Kashmiris in the IOK either want to be independent of both India and Pakistan OR they want ot be a part of Pakistan.

India is not in the future picture for Kashmiris so instead of wasting time on forums, I would suggest spend time convincing fellow Indians about facts. Make other Indians realize that Kashmiris don't want to be a part of India and it is only in India's benefit to resolve the Kashmir issue sooner than later.

I know that I might have offended some of you but you should think that an Indian is suggesting you this. That will make it easier for you to think.

SSGPA, you have never offended us, as we are very clear on the seperatists movement going on kashmir, and it is really lilmited to kashmir valley but ladakh, jammu regions are overwhelmingly in support of india. So i think you should get a more clearer picture on what is happening here rather than sing in the chorus of distroted facts.
 
These guys should be more careful about their security especially when there are peace talks going on with Center...We all know these terrorists don't want peace and will do anything to derail it...However such incidents also bring out their true face...Hope our people(Kashmiri's) are watching this...

Because they don't trust your security forces, period. This is the reason we can't blame mujahideens for every single inciddent .. why not RAW or Indian security forces in IOK.

Though i want to make a little controvertial statement...Whenever some innocent civilian is killed by Army(or for that matter Army hand is suspected) Kashmir just boils down...but when such incidents happen life just goes on as normal...

Not contrversial at all my friend ... Kashmiris seeIndia as an occupying force so anybody working with the occupying force is not so important. On the other hand someone protesting against the occupation and then gettting shot and killed for that has far more respect.

Bottom line Kashmiris don't want to be a part of India.
 
it is really lilmited to kashmir valley but ladakh, jammu regions are overwhelmingly in support of india.

So you have done a plebiscite in your mind and you think Jammu and Ladakh will go with India, see this is a starting point.

Now we can talk about the Valley. Why not pull Indian forces out of the Valley altogether. Pull them out to Ladakha and Jammu.
 

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