Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[TheWarriorIndian]

2+2 = 4 is not assumption.

Can you enlighten me of the other possible inferences.?

Buddy, 1+1 =3 by Using "We two ours One" Principle , So that is Just not obvious too I guess, what say???

 

[GUNNER]

Can you enlighten me of the other possible inferences.?

Let's see.

1. If i were the editor of The Nation, the headline could be;

'Quit Kashmir movement to be launched against India'

2. The current headline would suit a rightist Indian paper.

3. From a neutral point of view;

Seperatists ask both India and Pakistan to quit Kashmir

4. Highly unlikey but:

Movement against Chinese occupation of Kashmir

 

[Perceptron]

Well it is his perspective. How biased/unbiased, credible,incredible is debatable. Apparently doesn't look like a "study" tour of IOK but Bharati govt propaganda ministry.

This is exactly the reason why Intolerance and Conspiracy Theories are rife in Pakistan ; When you have a respected representative of a neutral solidarity group who reaches out to the APHC, JKLF, LAHDC-K, LUTF, the PDP and finally the PDP and the NC, and gives out his conclusion, the solution however stooped in reality will not be acceptable to people in the Land of the Pure. Then they start living in Denial and claim it as a RAW-CIA-MOSSAD conspiracy or a Zionist propaganda.

 

[karan.1970]

Well it is his perspective. How biased/unbiased, credible,incredible is debatable. Apparently doesn't look like a "study" tour of IOK but Bharati govt propaganda ministry.

I think he belongs to the same group that the Pakistan's favourite Indian Arundhati Roy belongs to..

 

[TaimiKhan]

what a show by the Indians, jumping upto the Pakistan related material, while neglecting the more striking material about the Indian occupation.

No matter what you or this above guy has to say, the Pakistani flags are raised in Indian occupied Kashmir, people are out on the street against Indian occupation on the Indian occupied side, plus all the barbarity, killings, rapes, burnings happen on that side of the occupied land, not here.

So, whine as much as you like, facts and figures are totally different then what Indians have to say.

 

[Areesh]

This is exactly the reason why Intolerance and Conspiracy Theories are rife in Pakistan ; When you have a respected representative of a neutral solidarity group who reaches out to the APHC, JKLF, LAHDC-K, LUTF, the PDP and finally the PDP and the NC, and gives out his conclusion, the solution however stooped in reality will not be acceptable to people in the Land of the Pure. Then they start living in Denial and claim it as a RAW-CIA-MOSSAD conspiracy or a Zionist propaganda.

If some one asks for the credibility of the writer than he believes in conspiracy theory? Lolzzz

 

[Perceptron]

what a show by the Indians, jumping upto the Pakistan related material, while neglecting the more striking material about the Indian occupation.

No matter what you or this above guy has to say, the Pakistani flags are raised in Indian occupied Kashmir, people are out on the street against Indian occupation on the Indian occupied side, plus all the barbarity, killings, rapes, burnings happen on that side of the occupied land, not here.

So, whine as much as you like, facts and figures are totally different then what Indians have to say.

Okay, then why does the Conclusion of his study include the Cross-border Terrorism by Pakistan, including the disruption of normal life by the Terrorists ? I for one, also consider the Unemployment, Corruption and Human-rights violations by the IA ; But why are you antipathetic when such an article points out that Independence of Kashmir is not an option ?

 

[karan.1970]

what a show by the Indians, jumping upto the Pakistan related material, while neglecting the more striking material about the Indian occupation.

No matter what you or this above guy has to say, the Pakistani flags are raised in Indian occupied Kashmir, people are out on the street against Indian occupation on the Indian occupied side, plus all the barbarity, killings, rapes, burnings happen on that side of the occupied land, not here.

So, whine as much as you like, facts and figures are totally different then what Indians have to say.

There is a recent news article about a Quit Kashmir movement being started in Pakistan too.. Isnt it??

Show or not, today Pakistan has a lower staying power than India in this situation. There are just too many distractions that PA and GoP are struggling with. Looks like things are being made Interesting...

 

[KS]

Let's see.

1. If i were the editor of The Nation, the headline could be;

'Quit Kashmir movement to be launched against India'

Not this. Because of this line.

so as to make it a strong unified voice of the entire Jammu Kashmir State."

3. From a neutral point of view;

Seperatists ask both India and Pakistan to quit Kashmir

That is what it is.

4. Highly unlikey but:

Movement against Chinese occupation of Kashmir

Full J&K includes the part occupied by Chinese also.

 

[Areesh]

There is a recent news article about a Quit Kashmir movement being started in Pakistan too.. Isnt it??

Show or not, today Pakistan has a lower staying power than India in this situation. There are just too many distractions that PA and GoP are struggling with. Looks like things are being made Interesting...

Well check that thread. The so called news you are talking about can be interpreted anyways. As done by Gunner.

Nothing is going to be interesting except the situation in IOK which can go on boil anytime.

 

[Perceptron]

If some one asks for the credibility of the writer than he believes in conspiracy theory? Lolzzz

I don't get it ; How do you detect and measure the Credibility of an Author ? Is his credibility not seen from his previous associations of Similar Study tours ? Or is his credibility not seen from how many sides of the Story he listened to ?

Let me ask you a question, Did you read the entire content of his Study ? Or were you just put off by his conclusion. From the entire article it seems to be that he has quoted most of the people ad verbatim. So shouldn't that give an indication on his unbiased reporting of statements ? Similar surveys have also been conducted and the conclusions corroborated by the EU Parliament ; You can have a look of that too and form your own assumptions from the same (which i believe is not going to change).

 

[karan.1970]

Well check that thread. The so called news you are talking about can be interpreted anyways. As done by Gunner.

Nothing is going to be interesting except the situation in IOK which can go on boil anytime.

Do see the response to Gunner as well.. Or stay in denial. As I said, India's capabiliity to absorb that boil is significantly higher than Pakistan at this time.

The war of thousand cuts has boomeranged somewhat..

 

[karan.1970]

Also Attaching some interesting exerpts from the EU parliament report of 2007 on the 2 parts of Kashmir. Hope that is not considered to be lacking credibility..


http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/pr/640/640763/640763en.pdf

Political situation: the aspirations of the people

14. Congratulates India and Pakistan on the peace moves currently under way, and welcomes the fact that bilateral talks, put on hold for three months after the July 2006 bombings in Mumbai, have re-started; stresses the need for the region, the EU and the international
community to support the current bilateral talks and for a further strengthening of exchanges, with the aim of generating a more stable and prosperous future for the people of Jammu and Kashmir;

15. Has warmly welcomed the CBMs initiated by India and Pakistan, which are achieving a moderate degree of success in reducing tension and suspicion on both sides;

16. Draws attention to the fact that ordinary Kashmiris, by virtue of the humanitarian situation after the earthquake, are now becoming intimately involved in the modalities of the peace process, through the exchanges taking place and the free movement (albeit still
limited) across the LoC;

17. Regrets, however, that Pakistan has consistently failed to fulfil its obligations to introduce meaningful and representative democratic structures in AJK; notes in particular the continuing absence of Kashmiri representation in the Pakistan National Assembly, the
fact that AJK is governed through the Ministry of Kashmir Affairs in Islamabad, that Pakistan officials dominate the Kashmir Council and that the Chief Secretary, the Inspector-General of Police, the Accountant-General and the Finance Secretary are all from Pakistan;

abhors the provision in the 1974 Interim Constitution which forbids any political activity that is not in accordance with the doctrine of Jammu and Kashmir as part of Pakistan and obliges any candidate for a parliamentary seat in AJK to sign a declaration of loyalty to that effect; is concerned that the Gilgit-Baltistan region enjoys no form of democratic representation whatsoever;

18. Recognises that Pakistan finds itself in a particularly complex situation with pressure from many sources; nevertheless:

- deeply regrets that the lack of a national political will to address basic needs provision, political participation and the rule of law in AJK has left women there in a desperate situation following the earthquake;

- highlights particularly, in this context, the recent threats aimed at derailing planned amendments to the **** laws, and the repugnant Hudood Ordinances themselves which, despite the will of President Musharraf, have recently been reconfirmed by a national parliament in which neither the women nor the men of AJK have any representation; nonetheless welcomes and wholeheartedly supports the efforts made by reformist parliamentarians to repeal these abhorrent laws;

- notes too the difficult situation faced by homosexuals;

19. Urges the EU to take a firm stance against the abomination of the Hudood Ordinances and to revisit, critically, the 3rd Generation Cooperation Agreement it signed with Pakistan in 2004, Article 1 of which states very clearly that the Agreement must be based
on a true respect for human rights and the upholding of true democratic principles, given that it is pre-eminently clear that Pakistan is not living up to its commitments, especiallyin AJK;

20. Urges Pakistan to revisit its concept of democratic accountability, minority and women's rights in AJK, which as elsewhere are key to improving conditions for the people and tackling the menace of terrorism;

21. Deplores documented human rights violations by the armed forces of India and the all too frequent incidents of terror and violence perpetrated by armed militant groups based in Pakistan; strongly urges both sides to do all they can to address these violations;
welcomes Pakistan's public commitments to curb infiltration across the LoC by militants operating out of territory under its control, but believes it must take much stronger and more effective measures; welcomes the continued and determined commitment by President Musharraf to fighting terrorism, which, it is widely recognised, presents
enormous challenges; approves and supports multilateral and bilateral EU Member State aid to assist Pakistan in fighting terrorism and in making determined efforts to improve the lives of the people of AJK;


22. Recognises and supports the aspiration of the Kashmiri people for a significantly reduced military presence in the area; points out, however, that meaningful demilitarisation can only take place alongside genuine action to neutralise the threat of infiltration of Jammu and Kashmir by militant outfits operating out of Pakistan;

23. Notes that while Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir enjoys a unique status under Article 370 of the Indian Constitution, granting it greater autonomy than other states in the Union, there remain deficiencies in practice with regard to human rights and direct
democracy; is pleased, therefore, to see recent moves in Jammu and Kashmir to strengthen democracy (as evidenced by the 75% turnout in recent local elections); urges India's National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) to exercise its full mandate with regard to any suspected or documented violations and, to lend it even greater credibility, urges the NHRC to make good the absence of any human rights professionals on its governing board; looks forward to enhanced progress in this area, and to positive outcomes from the new laws on child labour and on women and violence;

24. Recognises the difficult living conditions of a number of groups, such as the migrant Pandits of the Kashmir Valley; urges that discrimination against them and other groups, particularly in employment, be addressed head on; suggests that such groups seek to empower themselves by establishing committees of their own elected representatives, ensuring that women and under-25s are properly represented;

25. Suggests that India consider granting Ladakh the same provincial status as that enjoyed by Jammu and Kashmir; hopes that the Kargil-Skardu trade route can be re-established as part of the CBM process and that the Ladakh/Northern Areas division can be bridged by
crossing points similar to those already established elsewhere along the LoC; suggests that India re-examine the issue of whether the people of Ladakh could also enjoy representation in the Rajya Sabha;

26. Urges India to renew its focus on Jammu and Kashmir, including job creation and measures to promote tourism, and to examine how the (forthcoming) EU-India partnership could help with the creation of new skills-based jobs, especially for youth;

 

[GUNNER]

Not this. Because of this line.

Well, as i said Karthic... it depends on which side you are on.

Regardless, the aim of the movement has not been clarified in the story and thus the title is misleading.

 

[Developereo]

No problem. We can find our own guy who will tour the region, interview all parties and his conclusion will miraculously match the Pakistani perspective.

Reminds me of the saying "the accused will get a fair trial before being hanged".