Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[muse]

A disappointing post Ejaz, particularly how you have imagined India and the present and future as a representation of the past:

What probably you would realise is that just like Russia or China, India would forego its aspiration to play a global role if the dispute was affecting that(which it doe'snt seem to at the moment btw)

You will note that India are deprived the "Islamist" bugaboo since even Indian officials have to confess that the political action in captive Kashmir does not have a Pakistani imprimatur, but the captive Kashmiri themselves want Pakistan as a solution --- now, what if this "Islam" enemy thing stops paying the kinds of dividends that it paid in the past - recall reading something about fatigue -- now, if it turns out that this movement can be politically mollified then both Pakistan and India dodge a bullet, right? what if it isn't?? What if things get out of control and Indians end up killing a significantly higher number of people and the UN just can't look away, or the even the US media can't look away??

See, either way, it's a problem that has to be dealt with, now I'm not suggesting that Musharraf (my main man) had it wrong, but he's not on the scene and we have what we have to deal with.

 

[Rafael]

Just like his Pakistani counterpart has been for years

at least you accepted that your's is

We'll decide about ours soon!

 

[EjazR]

but the captive Kashmiri themselves want Pakistan as a solution

Forgive me if I'm yet to be convinced on this account, but my personal interactions as well as numerous opinion polls by non-Indian groups have consistently shown that the valley Kashmiris want independance. And that includes areas under Pakistani control including Gilgit Baltistan as well as Jammu and Ladakh. I would admit freely that 80-90% in the valley have this viewpoint. Now I realise that Pakistan will not just withdraw and handover these areas. It will probably give some sort of autonomy but still hold defence, foreign affairs and other subjects.
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When I say that according to my reading, India would rather forego its global aspirations rather than give up Kashmir, I don't say that I am happy with it but I see that is the reality atleast for the forseeable future. Indian political class still has a lot of post-colonial issues and like China jeloulsy and zelously guards questions on soverignity. Just look at the tango being played in signing military pacts with the US like CISMOA e.t.c. Somthing that Pakistan did in the 1950s without issues.

And the idea that sepratists are Pakistani-backed or at the least politcal Islamists is deep rooted and also not incorrect to an extent. It is what the Indian public opinion is that matters in this situation. I am not saying that it is correct, but it is a net negative for the Kashmiri sepratists to be associated with Islamists or Pakistani sponsors or terrorist outfits like LeT or Hizb. But it may change when you see the Kashmiri intellectuals and others on TV debates constantly saying that this has nothing to do with Pakistan e.t.c.


Personally, the counter-terrorism scenario IMO has to be looked primarily as a homeland security issue in India. India needs to get its act together. And that also means getting its act together on police reforms. There is no way to justify the death of 100+ people for throwing stones. I don't agree that they "deserved" to be shot at just because they were throwing stones. And I would be surprised if Chidambaram could not see that. HR violations and invesitgation into that is something that India can and should do without any resolution of the polical problem. And this is a problem India-wide. Last 70+ Gujjars were shot in Rajasthan ina reservation agitation. Similarly in UP in 2008 almost 300+ people were shot in seperate agitations. In Bengal you had 50+ shot in land aquistion agitations. This is just horrible.

The J&K police is probably one of the best COIN police in the country and have done an excellent job in helping in brining the situation militarily undercontrol. But now its time to get the police and CRPF in particular up to speed with riot control duties and more importanly to uphold HR in conflict zones. If they can do COIN, there is no reason why they can't do riot control.

About UN and US interfering, I am being a realist here. As long as there are statements saying the solution lies in a peaceful negotiated settlement of the solution between India and Pakistan. It will stay a bilateral issue. It seems that the current strategy of GoP is to shame India into a compromise. But recall in the 1990s, Pakistan was a darling of the media, a partner of the US that had helped it win the Cold war against the USSR, and India was on its economic knees, unstable government with massive bad press like the Babri masjid demolitions e.t.c, it was not enough for India to compromise and infact some of the most massive operations and HR violations took place during that period. So will the situation turn back to the 90s. I don't see that happening as long as infiltration is checked, and the protestors are peaceful, and riot control is taken seriously.

I hope its gets solved soon. I agree its an issue, but at the same time there has to be compromise on all sides--India, Pakistan and Kashmir valley, and a look at the bigger picture on who is gaining or losing what.

 

[Awesome]

Americans are extremely greedy for Indian money. They are ready to **** mother-democracy and grandma liberty for the money India throws at them.

The genocide of Kashmiris goes on while America keeps aligning India as its chief ally in the region.

 

[Areesh]

And in my dream I also saw that you are a President of Balochistan .. lolzzz

Have a nice day !!

And I can just hope that this forum is clean from people like you as soon as possible. And unlike you I know my wish going to be fulfill very soon.

 

[muse]

Asim

Look at the trade deficit figures between the Indian and the US - very interesting -- and something Ejaz does not take into account at all, that the US needs this problem solved -- After Afghanistan, the US will have only the NATO Turkiye - Qatar and Iraq bases are in constant danger and once out of Afghanistan, it's going to be a different world for them.

Something else that Ejaz does not account for is the notion of long term subversion - I don't necessarily mean by a external force, but by the kind of dynamic developing both between the two confessions and significantly between how Muslims in India see each other, a fascinating development with much potential.

In spirit I'm with Ejaz, I do however question whether it's beneficial to keep formulating analysis on basis that sem not to change or evolve.

 

[footmarks]

at least you accepted that your's is

We'll decide about ours soon!

Do you really believe in my words?? Because I also want to say that you are the biggest nut.

 

[KILLA]

okay! Okay i get a point for all pakistan friends as this will pave path for kashmir talks 'Why don't pakistan create an example by liberation of balucistan ? They asking for seperation since long... They don't want to be under pakistan federal law but a total independence ...please put some light over this issue too...

 

[KILLA]

well please don't give us lame excuse about indian dollar power.. Indo - US honeymoon just started from past few years but what about the rest of 50yearz when india was just like backbencer in UN and pakistan was dating US ...

 

[karan.1970]

Do remember that there was a time, when USA used to push / nudge India on Kashmir. And at that time India's position was no where near as good as it is today. So its a non event. Hypothetically even if Obama responds to this childish appeal, the max that will happen is that the Pakistani members of forums like Defence.pk will have a louder e-voice for next few days. If he doesnt, it will be Indians who will have a party.. So either way, someone gets to enjoy.. Thats what I call inclusive politics..

 

[Developereo]

Please don't lie. The Kashmir issue has been alive since 1947 and has nothing to do with fanaticism.

It is entirely possible that some Indian govt. or private group will carry out a false flag operation at the CWG and blame it on the Kashmiris to discredit their struggle and legitmize full scale military operations in Kashmir. They may even coax and facilitate some gullible Kashmiri group to do the legwork and think they are planning the whole thing.

 

[toppys]

Free Kashmir!

With the purchase of another Kashmir of equal or greater value.Other conditions apply.Subject to market conditions. Users can try it at their own risk.Vendor is absovled of all responsibilities. Vendor can deny sale to any participant. Please check our website for participating locations.

 

[toppys]

well please don't give us lame excuse about indian dollar power.. Indo - US honeymoon just started from past few years but what about the rest of 50yearz when india was just like backbencer in UN and pakistan was dating US ...

just ex wife bitching about new one...

 

[karan.1970]

^ You guys read too much of Robert Ludlum...

 

[ek_indian]

Seems like creation of another CIA+Mossad+RAW+MI6 (or whatever number)+NASA+X+Y.... conspiracy.