Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[karan.1970]

Pakistan pleads for US intervention on Kashmir
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NEW YORK — Pakistan on Tuesday urged the United States to pressure India over Kashmir, saying recent unrest showed that New Delhi and not Islamabad was to blame for trouble in the Himalayan territory.

On a visit to New York for a UN session on Pakistan's devastating floods, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi insisted his government wanted peace with India but tore into its rule of Kashmir which he called "oppression."

"The occupation cannot continue. The rights of the Kashmiri people cannot continue to be denied," Qureshi said at the Council on Foreign Relations, a think-tank.

"We call upon the United States particularly, which is pressing so responsibly for peace in the Middle East, to also invest its political capital in trying to help seek an accommodation on Kashmir," he said.

"Such an accommodation would not only be just for the people of Kashmir but would be critical for peace in the region," he said, warning that "terrorism... has fueled and thrived on blatant examples of social and political injustice."

President Barack Obama's administration is seeking a broader relationship with India but also friendlier ties with Pakistan, a key battleground in the fight against Islamic extremism.

India considers Kashmir a domestic issue and rejects any foreign involvement. The Obama administration has steered clear of Kashmir after early statements triggered a backlash in India.

Kashmir, a Himalayan territory with a Muslim majority but a sizeable Hindu minority, has been disputed between India and Pakistan since independence and triggered two full-fledged wars between them.

An insurgency erupted on the Indian side in 1989 but had subsided in recent years. Indian authorities, along with some outside experts, say that Pakistan actively supported Islamic guerrillas who sneaked across the frontier.

But in recent weeks, waves of protesters have turned to the streets to rally against Indian rule in Kashmir. Security forces have shot dead more than 100 demonstrators.

"At times it's easy for the Indians to look toward Pakistan and blame Pakistan for everything that's going wrong in Indian-occupied Kashmir," Qureshi said.

But he said "no one any longer can seriously believe this."

"Can Pakistan orchestrate thousands of people? Can Pakistan plan, sitting in Islamabad, a shutdown all over Kashmir?" he said

If there was a similar move by India against Pakistan, the thread would have been proliferated up the wazzoo with pictures like these.

but I am glad we are having a much saner discussion here

 

[KS]

The BJP and many other weak-hearted nationalists have argued that giving special treatment to Kashmir will loosen India's control there, creating a domino effect. They argue that such actions would contravene the spirit of national integration. Yet multiple Indian States enjoy special provisions in varying measure and are still as much a part of the nation as any other.

None of the other states other than one or two in NE like Nagaland have special provisions.And yes this article is in contradiction to the constitutionally granted right to every Indian to buy land,settle in any part of India.

So this "anti-constitutional" law needs to be repealed at the earliest.

Moreover, as the Supreme Court clearly observed in its judgment in Khazan Chand vs the State of Jammu and Kashmir (1984), J&K “holds a special position in the constitutional set-up of our country.” The Supreme Court further stated that Article 370 is the basis for a constitutional relationship between the Indian Union and J&K State.

The Supreme court's observation is based on existing law and there is no rule that objects/prohibts changing the constitution according to the ground realities and if the people (for whom the constitution was written) want that.

Now that Pakistan has, at least theoretically, given up many of its puritanical and irredentist positions on Kashmir, India should capitalise on the opportunity to seek mutually agreeable positions on the issue.

What was Pakistan's previous puritanical position and in what way it has given them up now.? Any one...?

Engaging Kashmiris in a result-oriented and goal-driven manner as laid out here is indeed taking the road less travelled, a road that is not easy to take. And so, before New Delhi decides to discard suggestions such as this, it needs to ask itself what serves India's long-term national interests better: maintaining the violent, chaotic, ungovernable status quo in Kashmir through brute force and military might, or meeting the legitimate political aspirations of the Kashmiris and convincing them that they have a place in the idea of India?

Everyone knows that maintaining the military is not good and that we have to convince the Kashmiris that they are a part of India and India only..
But if they are not willing to listen to that and every appeal from the rest of Indians to them falls on deaf ears and if by "legitimate aspirations" ,the author or the Kashmiris mean independence or secession to Kashmir,then sorry the military will stay there and that is in the interest of India.

 

[KS]

Is this child a fanatic?
India soldiers kill Kashmiri child in protests [ WORLD BULLETIN- TURKEY NEWS, WORLD NEWS ]

No the child is definitely not a fanatic,but his father/mother/guardian/brother who took the child to the protests,thus causing his death is a fanatic,coward and whatever u might name him.

Please don't lie. The Kashmir issue has been alive since 1947 and has nothing to do with fanaticism. It is about people having the right to self-determination and about following the principles by which the partition of India was carried out.

Kashmir is a issue of religious fanaticism and intolerance.

Please have a look into this:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/72941-two-face-kashmiri-muslims-their-so-called-independence-movement-2.html#post1142277

 

[Skies]

They know if the kashmir issue is resolved then Pakistan and India will become allies , our borders would be opened , there would be trade happening all over the place our people would be well off and Pakistan would help India to solve their issues with china and by having done that America as a sole super power wont be the only one . Eu wont be the only union , do you see my points benny?

Then India should not wait to solve.......

suicide attacks can settle the Kashmir issue with in 4 to 5 years.because if America can not stop them i Iraq & Afghanistan than who India can stop them

Right - both theoretically and practically.

 

[trident2010]

We should get P.O.K first and then make entire J&K as union territory ..

Sooner than later it will happen, insallah !!

 

[Devil Soul]

We should get P.O.K first and then make entire J&K as union territory ..

Sooner than later it will happen, insallah !!

one cant be stopped from day dreaming

 

[muse]

To help our Indian forum members focus, lets us re-frame for them. nationalistic emotion is at work in the captive kashmir versus the Indian Federation -- Both groups of peoples have their own versions of national-ism, with different substance to that nationalism -- isn't this right?

How can can it be maintained that these are part of one overarching idea of Indianhood? After all the substance of their nationalism is different and opposing. One seeks Freedom and the other seeks to keep them captive.

When all is said and done, when all the the "Tu tu mein mein" is done, the reality is that the captives want their freedom, and sooner or later, you know it, they will win it.

But there is a great opportunity for all in this freedom of the captive Kashmiri - you just have to think about it in a more calm and reasonable manner.

Indian officials, if not all Indians, but certainly thinking Indians realize that in order for India to realize it's position in south Asia, in Asia lat large, it must not have any territorial problems with her neighbors, that it must have the very very best relations with her neighbors - the reality is that today, India is in a cage, a cage of her own making - despised in Nepal, in Bangla and in Lanka and then there is of course Pakistan -- but the bigger problem is being at peace internally: destruction by fanatic Hindus of a 16th century place of worship has the supreme courts and government ministers busy - it's incredible for a country that aspires to an international standing of respect.

Decisions in line with reality must be made, they cannot be easy, but they become progressively more difficult the more India hide from making these decisions. There is a world to win, let that be the focus, not hollow slogans of nationalism that ignores history and reality.

 

[ek_indian]

Faltu ki bahas hai...kuch nahi hone wala....afterall we are third most powerful nation (humour intended)...

 

[Je suis de retour]

Islamabad
Upping the ante, Pakistan on Thursday said there can be no result-oriented discussions with India on the Kashmir unless New Delhi stops treating it as the country's integral part and seeking a solution within the ambit of the Indian Constitution.
Intensifying the criticism of the situation in Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit called on India to "revisit its approach and its Kashmir policy rather than trying cosmetic measures here and there because this is not going to bring about any difference as far as the Jammu and Kashmir dispute is concerned."

"Unless India takes a fresh look at its Kashmir policy, does some introspection and stops treating Jammu and Kashmir as its integral part and stops harping on seeking a solution within the Indian Constitution, we do not believe that we can really have any meaningful or result-oriented discussions with India on this (issue)," Basit told a weekly news briefing.

He was responding to a question on the Indian government's efforts to address the protests in Jammu and Kashmir by sending a delegation of political leaders to meet Kashmiri leaders.

Basit noted that the Hurriyat Conference had already rejected the move.

He also described as "self-serving" India's rejection of resolutions passed by both houses of Pakistan's Parliament condemning the violence in Jammu and Kashmir and calling on the international community to ensure the implementation of UN resolutions on Kashmir.

"Jammu and Kashmir is an international issue and subject of several UN resolutions. The Senate and National Assembly resolutions of September 20 reflect the concerns of the people of Pakistan on the gross and systematic violations of human rights of the Kashmiri people by Indian security forces," he said.

Basit noted that the UN Secretary General had called for an end to the violence while the Organisation of the Islamic Conference and Amnesty International had asked India to end the violence and protect the rights of people.

"Pakistan is committed to finding a just and peaceful settlement of the Jammu and Kashmir dispute and will continue extending its moral, diplomatic and political support to Kashmiris in their legitimate struggle against Indian occupation," he said.

In response to another question, Basit said Pakistan is not undertaking any propaganda against India on the Kashmir issue.

"If you are describing that as propaganda on the part of Pakistan, it is totally self-serving and just to mislead the international community because the issue is far bigger than what the Indians are saying," he said.

Pak asks India to stop treating Kashmir as its integral part

 

[trident2010]

one cant be stopped from day dreaming

And in my dream I also saw that you are a President of Balochistan .. lolzzz

Have a nice day !!

 

[KS]

How can can it be maintained that these are part of one overarching idea of Indianhood? After all the substance of their nationalism is different and opposing. One seeks Freedom and the other seeks to keep them captive.

When all is said and done, when all the the "Tu tu mein mein" is done, the reality is that the captives want their freedom, and sooner or later, you know it, they will win it.

Who seeks freedom (secession) - Is it the Kashmiris in general or the Muslims in the Valley alone.?

It is a very important question because any such demand based on a flawed version of religious intolerance is not acceptable in a secular country.

But there is a great opportunity for all in this freedom of the captive Kashmiri - you just have to think about it in a more calm and reasonable manner.

The two attributes mentioned are unfortunately missing in the "captive" (???) Kashmiri Muslim.

Indian officials, if not all Indians, but certainly thinking Indians realize that in order for India to realize it's position in south Asia, in Asia lat large, it must not have any territorial problems with her neighbors, that it must have the very very best relations with her neighbors

True....but for that India cannot bend on its backward to placate tiny neighbours because we are big,we are militarily more powerful and we are economically bigger.

It has to be a two way street,not a one way one.

- the reality is that today, India is in a cage, a cage of her own making - despised in Nepal, in Bangla and in Lanka and then there is of course Pakistan -- but the bigger problem is being at peace internally: destruction by fanatic Hindus of a 16th century place of worship has the supreme courts and government ministers busy - it's incredible for a country that aspires to an international standing of respect.

Reality according to some people's illusions (what an oxymoron).

Despised by the Nepali Maoists on the payroll of the Chinese,not by ordinary Nepalis.

Despised by Jamatis who make up about 4% of the population in Bangladesh,not by the majority Bangalis who are friendly towards Indians for our role in their independence.

Despised by Sri Lankans whose PM says Srilanks is like a sister of India.
Cmon ppl.

Decisions in line with reality must be made, they cannot be easy, but they become progressively more difficult the more India hide from making these decisions. There is a world to win, let that be the focus, not hollow slogans of nationalism that ignores history and reality.

The only reality is the Valley cannot survive as an independent nation with 3 nuclear powers at its borders and secession to Pakistan is like finding a waterfall in the Sahara.

The sooner the Valley ppl wake up to this reality,the better for all.

 

[Black Stone]

I personally don't want the US to get involved in this. Let Pakistanis, Indians and the Kashmiris resolve this.

 

[Kinetic]

US could never intervened in 63 years and now also they can't intervene. Above all I don't think they will.

Americans would never do that , we will . Its in their extreme favor to keep us fighting and keep Lockheed martin , Boeing and others getting our arms contracts.

They know if the kashmir issue is resolved then Pakistan and India will become allies , our borders would be opened , there would be trade happening all over the place our people would be well off and Pakistan would help India to solve their issues with china and by having done that America as a sole super power wont be the only one . Eu wont be the only union , do you see my points benny?

I don't think so. Kashmir issue solved doesn't mean India-Pakistan become allies. Neither they give up hatred.

 

[SpArK]

When you fire on us, don't you feel the pain: Kashmiri youths

Home Minister P Chidambaram today faced some tough questions from Kashmiri youth who asked him whether he felt no pain when security forces fired on peaceful protestors and told him that unemployment was the major reason for unrest in the state. Chidambaram, who is leading an all-party delegation to Jammu and Kashmir, interacted with local youth in Tangmarg.

"The issue of Kashmir is a genuine issue. Many leaders come here and go but do not listen to the problems of the Kashmiri youth. The Kashmiri youth are facing unemployment," a local youth told Chidambaram.

He added that though the youth wanted to progress, they were not allowed to do so.

"We want an opportunity to move ahead. You also see that we are not allowed to move ahead. When we protest, there is firing which is not the case in other states," he added.

A school had been burned down here on Eid last Saturday. Five people were killed in firing during protests.

During the interaction with Chidambaram today, another young man posed him a few candid questions. He asked the Home Minister why even peaceful protestors were fired upon by the security forces in the valley.

"When you fire on us, don't you feel the pain? When you cut us, when you fire on Kashmiris?" he asked.

Chidambaram gave the group of youngsters a patient hearing and appeared to sympathise with them.

Earlier, the all-party delegation faced angry mobs when they visited a hospital where some of the injured were undergoing treatment.


When you fire on us, don't you feel the pain: Kashmiri youths - Hindustan Times

 

[EjazR]

I think Pakistanis failed to see that the Musharraf-Singh forumula is the closest ever we got to solving the KAshmir dispute and frankly any solution will always lie somewhere around that.

Principle is the idea of Kashmiriyat which traditionally is an religiously inclusive ideology like the idea of India unlike Pakistaniyat which atleast for now is based on a two-nation theory. Pakistan,India or China will not allow Kashmir to become independant and that is the crux ofthe matter.

And I have to really wonder if people understand that situation when they compare India with situation like Afghanistan, Iraq or Vietanm. IS that really a comparible situation?

The US or the USSR had no realtion with these areas, had long lines of logistics and more importantly had a significant home public opinion that saw that it was against its interest to be holding ground militarily. It was not as if, militarily US or USSR were defeated strictly speaking. It was just a matter of public fatigue. It was politcally not feasible to continue the war. So it was public opinion that resulted in the withdrawal, not a military defeat.

Now compare that with Russia in Chechenya, a far longer and more violent history, or China in Tibet or Xinjian, equally violent and brutal coupled with even the freedom of religious pratice. This areas are considered part of the country, and no matter what the cost of the assymetrical warfare, there is no reason for them to give up.

What probably you would realise is that just like Russia or China, India would forego its aspiration to play a global role if the dispute was affecting that(which it doe'snt seem to at the moment btw) rather than redraw borders. Particularly when the only way a 1990s situation in Kashmir can be created is if Pakistan backs them which would further isolate it if it involves itself in abetting infiltration.

There only two ways that the borders can be changed.

(1) A international intervention by military powers, to enforce a new boundary. Most likely that would be the end of Kashmir valley as we know as in the insuing war and nuclear weapons to boot, there are chances of mass casualty.

(2) A democratic public opinion change among the people of India including Jammu Kashmir(remember not every in the state wants to seperate from India) with atleast three fourths majority agreeing on redrawing of borders.

Barring these two, there is no option of changing borders. Ofcourse there is a possiblity of coming up with a compromise solution somewhere in between like the Musharraf-Singh formulae.
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A point on using terrorism and haram activities like suicide bombings that some Pakistanis seem to salivate on. These is something that you should wish if you hate the Kashmiris. Until 1989 there were no army or security forces present in population areas in the valley. No AFSPA or similar laws. IT was thanks to the Pakistani backed infiltration of fanatics from Pakistan and other parts of the muslim world that brought this situation on them. Not only that these militants were responsible for killing more than 15000 civilians out of the 60000 estimated dead in the past two decades.