Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[genmirajborgza786]

That is debatable.

The Northern Areas were forcibly occupied. The people living there are more or less Pashtun than Kashmiri. Historical Kashmir and Northern Areas never had anything common.

Anyway, we'll put that case up with the Kashmiris. Let them decide.

no sir, but how can one let them do that pakistan needs the border with China i mean this is not only about land but it is also one the most important strategic links that Pakistan has how can one let them decide what if ( God forbid) they decide to leave, what then ? Pakistan have only to lose & nothing to gain it will be a total strategical disaster.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The only "rights" we want are the ones promised to us by the UN.

Indeed feasible if Pakistan withdraws its troop as per the UN resolution.

The UN resolution has been reproduced many a time on this forum.

Read it.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The people of Northern Areas are not Kashmiris per se, even if they were a part of the Kashmir Riyasat,

The religious affiliation was with Afghanistan, Central Asia, Kashghar, Yarkand of China and Kashmir. The first person to spread Islam in this area was Syed Shah Afzal of Badakhshan, Afghanistan. He entered the state of Yasen and spread Islam among the people of Yasen in 725 AD. The people of Yasen were the first to embrace Ismailia Islam in this region. Shah Salim spread Islam in Hunza in 1800-21. The people of Tangir/Darel embraced Sunni Islam after 1890. Syed Mohammad Noor Bux came to Khapoolo Baltistan in 1464, and preached the Noor Buxi Islam. Syed Ali Tusi and Syed Nasir Tusi came to Baltistan, and spread Shia Islam in 17th century. The last people of this area to embrace Sunni Islam were the people of Chilas, in 1868.

The ratio of different Islamic sects in this region is: 45 per cent Shia, 25 per cent Sunni, 20 per cent Ismailia and 10 per cent Noor Buxi. Sunnis are in majority in Dardistan (Diamar), Shia in this area and Nagir, Noor Buxi in Baltistan (Ghanchhe, Khapoolo) and Ismailia in Brooshaal (Yasen, Hunza, Pooyaal, Ishkomen and Goopes).

 

[UnitedPak]

UnitedPak, i depends on what history one is looking at. For you, history may start at a certain point, but others may have much longer memories.

The history of the lands that you talked about is much older than the history of Islam and it was a glorious history.

There may be people who want these areas to revert to that pristine (as per their thinking) glory before these lands were invaded by invaders coming fro the west.

One shouldnt have to go back 1300 years to allow Kashmiris to vote. That was a very nonsensical statement. Kashmir is Muslim majority and you are proposing looking at their pre Islamic history to settle this?

 

[Vinod2070]

One shouldnt have to go back 1300 years to allow Kashmiris to vote. That was a very nonsensical statement. Kashmir is Muslim majority and you are proposing looking at their pre Islamic history to settle this?

First you claimed the "historical" Muslim nature of the lands. For many Indians this is a result of forced invasions and hence not a valid basis for any decision of this nature. We remember the cruel murder of Guru Teg Bahadur for trying to stop the forced conversions in Kashmir by Aurangzeb.

Then if India can have 150 million Muslims even after partition on the basis of religion, there is no reason a "Muslim majority" Kashmir (which has a very significant Hindu and Budhdhist populatio too) can't be a part of India.

 

[UnitedPak]

First you claimed the "historical" Muslim nature of the lands. For many Indians this is a result of forced invasions and hence not a valid basis for any decision of this nature. We remember the cruel murder of Guru Teg Bahadur for trying to stop the forced conversions in Kashmir by Aurangzeb.

Then if India can have 150 million Muslims even after partition on the basis of religion, there is no reason a "Muslim majority" Kashmir (which has a very significant Hindu and Budhdhist populatio too) can't be a part of India.

I should have known you still hold a grudge over something which happened 1300 years ago. The North West of the Subcontinent is Muslim. You should seriously learn to deal with it.
And they are still Muslim, which is why its important in todays Politics.

Do you realise the absurdity of holding a grudge against something which didnt happen to you? I get the impression that you think you own the people of Kashmir since you are so absolutely devastated by their conversion to Islam.

If you are hoping for them to convert back to Buddhism/Hinduism, I wouldnt hold by breath on it.

These events are 1300 years old. Let it go.

 

[Vinod2070]

I didn't say that I hold these views but there are people who may justifiably hold these views.

Don't we hear Muslims talking of their "historic" Caliphate empire? And they are talking about areas forcibly occupied by Arabs!

the Indians who think so are only talking about their own lands not far flung occupied areas.

But yes I agree with you that partition can not and should not be undone. Just no more bloody partitions based on hatreds and separatism.

 

[IceCold]

A cross between hamas and hezbollha is what is needed in kashmir.
Targeted killing of indian occupation officals in kashmir and attacks on indian proper are what are needed.
A few well placed attacks on the indian military are the call of the day.

The indians can back and fund suicide missions in pakistan,i am sure we can do the same.

I dont know about the hamas and hezbolla thing but the rest can surely be done and should have been done, too bad the gop is too pussy to do anything, infact i was amazed to see the attitude of the parties pre election, So much shift in the foreign policy made me wonder, what the bloodly hell are we going towards? Damnn it

 

[Vinod2070]

Why don't you two gentlemen enrole for this noble task at the nearest LET recruitment centre. Or may be get your brothers/sons to join them.

Are you waiting for someone else to do it? May be some poor youth from far flung areas!

 

[IceCold]

Why don't you two gentlemen enrole for this noble task at the nearest LET recruitment centre. Or may be get your brothers/sons to join them.

Are you waiting for someone else to do it? May be some poor youth from far flung areas!

Thanks for the unwanted suggestion.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

If being Mo.slem is the criteria for the whole issue, then there are lots of Mos.lems in India.

Are you suggesting they should all go to Pakistan?

The Indian Mo.slems do not share your view!

A flawed argument.

 

[dabong1]

Why don't you two gentlemen enrole for this noble task at the nearest LET recruitment centre. Or may be get your brothers/sons to join them.!

Do my friends,cousins and uncle count..?

Are you waiting for someone else to do it? May be some poor youth from far flung areas!

Well my uncle was born in IOK and my cousins where from AJK,all educated and well to do.
My friends from the UK fought for the taliban and one of them did a tour of kashmir.......they i will agree "where from a flung areas"....but two of them had degrees.

 

[dabong1]

As I said its your call, the UN does not seem to care , again its your call , frankly we don't care..

But you do agree that UN wants a vote on the issue.
Let democracy prosper.....what are you scared off.
If india is that good and caring then surely the people of kashmir will be in favour of staying with india......wont they..?

A stupid rule and an archaic one, I dont give horse crap as to what Nehru and his foolish policy has to say..

Okay whatever....but it disproves your point.

maybe you would have been happy if we changed the demographics of the region like the way Chinese do to Tibet...

Go ahead....you have scared all the pandits out of kashmir.

Anyways I dont plan to buy land in Kashmir , too far away from home but I can visit srinagar, go for trekking or mountain climbing in ladhak and I dont need your permission do I?

you go anytime you want.....just as long its not in a indian military uniform.

Its a huge tract of land with lots of water flowing and we dont mind spending millions or keeping a million men on standby , we have the money, the resource . Its my tax money and I am happy to spend it.

good....carry on spending

Before thumping your chest those good men and billions spent are in response to Pakistani millitary threat of invasion so dont dream that your Jihad has achieved it. Lets see where your jihad heads the moment support from Pakistan ceases..

Pakistans support will never end.....you can wish though

Also India has upped its ante aginst the insurgency starting from fencing the border to actively engaging the millitants and their support infrastructure so 9/11 would not have made mush of a differnce....

A couple of hours of shelling and those fences are bye bye.

Nope a lots of Indians are happy so are a lot of Pakistanis , why should we die for your cause which is dead anyways.
Yes true , they were willing to fight and fought their own war , they rose up to the ocassion and fought for it not sacrificing other country men for their cause. Again and again I repeat , the conflict in Kashmir is not even close to the likes of major regional conflicts elsewhere so comparing with them is a moot point when you are lazy to fight in the first place
Hmmmm, whatever , let Pakistan do whatever it wants with AJK who cares whether it is complete or incomplete. Maybe you should say this to Pakistani establishment who sadly dont share your view.
I think the major break came during the Parliment attack which resulted in India mobilizing its troops for a full fledged war, something whaich Pakistan tried to avoid( and never expected) but keep India engaging through insurgency ,but after operation Parakram saner minds there realised that a full blown conflict is simply not worth it especially in this nuclear age......

I just hope all your wishes come true....thats what they are airy fairy wishes...keeping fooling yourself into thinking that pakistan does not care for kashmir.

Yup fight for it , I dont think you shall be quiet successfull , history supports me , anyways all the best to ya.......

Thanyou for support

Only wishes , eat this Pakistan has realised that they will not simply keep fighting for your cost , their cost benifit analysis does not allow them also they have several problems in their backyard . Thy have realised that it is best to maintain status quo and live with peace. It s a winwin situation for both Pakistan and India , we get to keep IK, Pakistan gets to keep AJK plus we can divert our resources to other fruitful things and ordinary Kashmiris can study , eat and sleep happily........

Thats what you want......india keeps IOK and pakistan keeps AJK and LOC as a border.

Thats not what we want.......you want to keep the status quo we dont.

Nope completely wrong, we have moved from claiming AJK to recognizing LOC as border.


Whatever bring em on I say.

You had your chance to reach a settlement with mushy but your arrogance got the better of you.......taste the bitter friuts now.

 

[UnitedPak]

If being Mo.slem is the criteria for the whole issue, then there are lots of Mos.lems in India.

Are you suggesting they should all go to Pakistan?

The Indian Mo.slems do not share your view!

A flawed argument.

If you had read anything in this thread you would know its not.

Firstly its about what the Kashmiris themselves want.
Secondly, the water issues for the rest of Pakistanis.
Thirdly, A Muslim majority state will suffer in India. Not that 1984 and 2002 didnt show the world what India does to its minorities, but you have already turned Kashmir into a police state.

And why dont you write "Muslims" instead of evading the word censor with a questionable spelling? Really shows the level of maturity of some of our members.

 

[Vinod2070]

Do my friends,cousins and uncle count..?

They do but two will be counted as one.

Well my uncle was born in IOK and my cousins where from AJK,all educated and well to do.
My friends from the UK fought for the taliban and one of them did a tour of kashmir.......they i will agree "where from a flung areas"....but two of them had degrees.

Illustrious family, I will say. Does the British police know of the activities of this Jehadi in their midst? As a law abiding citizen, you must inform them.

Did your friend come back safe an sound and in one piece and not as a handful of gravel?