Kashmir dispute has to be resolved for peace, stability: Gen Raheel

[W.11]

No one in Indian establishment want it. We are perfectly fine with status quo. Its you guys, ur govt and ur military who have their panties on fire with the very mention of Kashmir. Its disputed and blah blah for u...not for us.

status quo may not be acceptable to kashmiris?

its not about indian or pakistani egos? but kashmiris? agreed?

 

[raja hindustani]

come and take it, if you can?

================

my personal opinion on the matter is kashmiris should be given the right of self determination both by pakistan and india and i support separate kashmir valley state (azad kashmir and indian occupied kashmir)

because in my opinion, kashmiris can be kept divided between india and pakistan, they have a right to be as one kashmiris

India might have agreed to a referendum in the early days had '65 not happened. Or had Pakistan not handed over a part to China. But i think its too late for that now. There are only two possible outcomes either LOC is accepted as international border, or Kashmir is seperated by force (and i mean direct military action by pakistan not insurgency). Both of which do not seem likely to happen in the near future. So the Kashmir issue will remain where it is now.

 

[W.11]

India might have agreed to a referendum in the early days had '65 not happened. Or had Pakistan not handed over a part to China. But i think its too late for that now. There are only two possible outcomes either LOC is accepted as international border, or Kashmir is seperated by force (and i mean direct military action by pakistan not insurgency). Both of which do not seem likely to happen in the near future. So the Kashmir issue will remain where it is now.

lets be realitic, the chinese part has been china's? just like north east indian states captured from chinese and annexed to british india by the british?

pakistan didn't gift the chinese kashmir to china but india lost it?

lets forget the chinese kashmir or ladakh, and focus on kashmir valley and giving it right to self determination?

 

[agamdilawari]

status quo may not be acceptable to kashmiris?

its not about indian or pakistani egos? but kashmiris? agreed?

And how do u knw what Kashmiris want ? bcz few thousand of them (out of 1.28 cr) hold out a rally and chant anti-India slogan ? Why not views of 75% of Kashmiri voters who step out in terrifying weather just to exercise their rights as a part of world's largest democratic country against the views and defying the orders of the same thousand people who carry out anti-India activities ?

Why should India carry out a plebiscite bcz one of our neighbors says so ? who the hell are u to instruct us ? And why will we play heed to ur demands ? Stay where u r and manage what u got. India na humse puri tarah sambhalta hai aur na hi pura Pakistan tumse. We better try to manage our countries first before venturing out for more piece of land.

 

[W.11]

And how do u knw what Kashmiris want ? bcz few thousand of them (out of 1.28 cr) hold out a rally and chant anti-India slogan ? Why not views of 75% of Kashmiri voters who step out in terrifying weather just to exercise their rights as a part of world's largest democratic country against the views and defying the orders of the same thousand people who carry out anti-India activities ?

lets learn something from scottlish referendum?

in civilized world, the countries give such rights to nations?

im not just talking about india but pakistan as well

this 'ahda mera adha tumhara policy will be hurting kashmiri sentiments? in pak's and india's power and land control game? lets think about kashmiris first, neither india nor pak has right over kashmir but kashmiris?

 

[raja hindustani]

lets be realitic, the chinese part has been china's? just like north east indian states captured from chinese and annexed to british india by the british?

pakistan didn't gift the chinese kashmir to china but india lost it?

lets forget the chinese kashmir or ladakh, and focus on kashmir valley and giving it right to self determination?

Things don't work like this in real life. Would you agree there are certain percentage of your Baloch population who want independence? even if said separatists are 5% of balochistan, they make enough noises right? So if you were In charge would you call for a referendum? keep in mind that if you do other such groups may rise up and demand a referendum as well. This situation can be much more serious for India keeping in mind the diversity of people.

 

[W.11]

Things don't work like this in real life. Would you agree there are certain percentage of your Baloch population who want independence? even if said separatists are 5% of balochistan, they make enough noises right? So if you were In charge would you call for a referendum? keep in mind that if you do other such groups may rise up and demand a referendum as well. This situation can be much more serious for India keeping in mind the diversity of people.

absolutely, i have been saying for a long time now that if pakistanis are incompetent to handle balochistan, why not free balochistan infact?, pakistan is not a colony? nor is india?

kashmir issue prevails because india and pakistan has failed, if they has succeeded then kashmiris issue wont be around?

 

[agamdilawari]

lets learn something from scottlish referendum?

in civilized world, the countries give such rights to nations?

lets think about kashmiris first, neither india nor pak has right over kashmir but kashmiris?

Now if all countries start discussions on referendum on every state which faces an insurgency then world will become too messy...ain't it ?

Only way to achieve what u r trying to prove here is become a Russia, invade a Crimea, do the voting and make them ur own or separate nation. Now question is that is Pakistan a Russia and India a Ukraine ? I m saying this bcz ur words (ur establishment) suggests same but reality on ground is ENTIRELY opposite.

 

[W.11]

Now if all countries start discussions on referendum on every state which faces an insurgency then world will become too messy...ain't it ?

Only way to achieve what u r trying to prove here is become a Russia, invade a Crimea, do the voting and make them ur own or separate nation. Now question is that is Pakistan a Russia and India a Ukraine ? I m saying this bcz ur words (ur establishment) suggests same but reality on ground is ENTIRELY opposite.

dear, why are you fearful, if you think that kashmiris would side with india?

plain and simple

 

[Stephen Cohen]

dear, why are you fearful, if you think that kashmiris would side with india?

plain and simple

Give us a REASON to hold plebiscite in Kashmir

In my honest opinion, the time is not right for India to negotiate Kashmir.

What is there to negotiate ?

India should wait and see how this plays out. If Pakistan's position relatively strengthens in next 5 years then negotiate,

Did we negotiate in 1990 - 91 when we were bankrupt

if it doesn't then hold out as economic disparity will only increase in that case and help India's position.

Even if Pakistan's GDP growth rate touches 5 % it will never be able to
CLOSE the Gap with India

And perhaps you DO NOT know about the complete HOLLOWNESS
of Pakistani economy

It will take one decade to just stabilise and sustain itself given the
huge external debt that they are in ( which keeps growing every year )

 

[MilSpec]

Did we negotiate in 1990 - 91 when we were bankrupt



Even if Pakistan's GDP growth rate touches 5 % it will never be able to
CLOSE the Gap with India

And perhaps you DO NOT know about the complete HOLLOWNESS
of Pakistani economy

It will take one decade to just stabilise and sustain itself given the
huge external debt that they are in ( which keeps growing every year )

Even when we were bankrupt, our GDP was higher, and what I said has been the policy for the better part of last three decades. Will most likely remain for the next three too.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Even when we were bankrupt, our GDP was higher, and what I said has been the policy for the better part of last three decades. Will most likely remain for the next three too.

Policies change given the change in circumstances

If Pakistan has weakened to such an extent that it is NOT a threat but an irritant
why should we oblige it with negotiations

And ANYWAY you have not clarified ; Negotiate WHAT

@sandy_3126

In the tough days of early Nineties ; Pakistan KNEW that our GDP was higher than them
But it was hoping to do a " Soviet Union " on us

Just as Soviet Union Collapsed after the Afghan War ; they were hoping that
the sheer economic costs of keeping Kashmir would force us to QUIT

 

[MilSpec]

Policies change given the change in circumstances

If Pakistan has weakened to such an extent that it is NOT a threat but an irritant
why should we oblige it with negotiations

And ANYWAY you have not clarified ; Negotiate WHAT

@sandy_3126

In the tough days of early Nineties ; Pakistan KNEW that our GDP was higher than them
But it was hoping to do a " Soviet Union " on us

Just as Soviet Union Collapsed after the Afghan War ; they were hoping that
the sheer economic costs of keeping Kashmir would force us to QUIT

It is a misnomer that Soviet union collapsed due to Afgan war, I hope you did not mean that.

Indias take on kashmir only suffered in the early 50's due to a novice foreign policy. Since 60's the kashmir policy has been steadfast, and negotiations from Indian will always be Indian interest and natural claims. Now position that India takes is directly proportional to it leverage. We missed using our fulcrum in 1971, which would have been the best possible scenario. Waiting game to arrive to either from a social change driven through disparity where pakistan will lose interest (which sound ridiculous, but wait and watch) or through sudden situational change which will lead to similar effect.
Research G Parthasarthy on the topic. Quite fascinating

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Pakistan will ALWAYS be interested in Kashmir
Similarly Kashmiris will also favour Pakistan for at least a decade

It is India which has to DENY them this pleasure of TALKING about Kashmir

Discussing Kashmir makes them feel important and good about themselves
Our talks with Pakistan will only be on terrorism and IF they want economics

What has changed from a global perspective is that Pakistan
is UNABLE to even elicit a STATEMENT in its favour from any
Big power

Talking of 50s 60s and 70s is pointless

@sandy_3126

Soviet Union collapsed due to primarily economic reasons
and the Afghan war made their economic situation untenable

Pakistan drew the wrong lessons from it and thought that India
too would withdraw from Kashmir given the costs of the insurgency

 

[suresh1773]

lets learn something from scottlish referendum?

in civilized world, the countries give such rights to nations?

im not just talking about india but pakistan as well

this 'ahda mera adha tumhara policy will be hurting kashmiri sentiments? in pak's and india's power and land control game? lets think about kashmiris first, neither india nor pak has right over kashmir but kashmiris?

I still remember Pakistan raising the Kashmir issue Blindly at all forums,seminars,conference,summits & the human right voilations in Kashmir by Pakistanis. Nawaz Sharief terms the Kashmir struggle as indigenous but Ask the same Pakistanis including Nawaz Sharief about Baluchistan & they r bound to say,it is Indian sponsored terrorism,though Balochistan doesn't share any land border with India nor the militants come from India. These has to be some reason for the Balochis picking up the gun against Pakistanis right from 1947,u cannot have smoke without any fire.Like the scottish referendum,why don't u hold referendum in Balochistan. Well it is easier to say this type of things. Holding referendum is definatley a child's play. U have to ample of ground work.
On topic Raheel statements has no meaning & makes no sense. First of all Pakistan itself is caught in a deadly war with extremist & hardliners. It will be going to be a long war & the casulties r bound to rise. Even if the Kashmir issue is resolved,the militants will not evaporate in thin air or become normal citizens. It is rightly siad people who live with guns die with guns.Another main problem which Kashmiris face is employment. There r no factories,industries,the only industry is tourism which is somewhat seasonal. On the other side of border(Azad Kashmir) tourism has been completly destroyed by the extremist & hardliners